Did Buffy love Spike?

[Girl with Sword]

I personally have a very specific theory about this. I am a spuffy fan so number one I believe that she meant it. I believe that she has loved him for a while, I think that she realized it when she was running to save him in Lies My Parents Told Me, sometimes you have to think about what your life would be like if someone was truly gone, to realize how much you care about them. I also believe the cookie dough speech, she simply was not ready to chose. Because of diffrences in history and personality, kissing Angel was not choosing him. Unfortunetley sending Angel away was not choosing Spike either, I think is was a simply a matter of her not wanting 2 big piles of dust on her living room floor. I can see how people think Buffy didn't "truly" love Spike because she held back so much. She could love Angel like she'd never been hurt because she hadn't. By the time she started falling for Spike she couldn't love him with her whole heart because of a long list of things that starts with "Buffy is severley messes-up". He didn't belive her because why on earth should he? What reason does he have not to doubt? I think that he did see it in his last seconds, because he laughed. He was burning alive and laughing exstaticly because Buffy loves him and for those few seconds he saw it. Their love was so different from anything ever because of it's bad timing and the fact that both of them are boardering on phyco. But it was love none the less, it was messy at times, it was hard, sometimes a little disturbig but it was beautiful. Go to youtube and search Buffy/Spike-Good-bye My Lover, and click the one made by ms.bigbad, maybe it'll make you understand better

 

[BuffyElevated]

I do think Buffy loved Spike, very much. I think she didn't want to love him, because she was kind of ashamed of it, and I don't think she wanted to admit it to anyone, including herself. But I do believe she did love him. Maybe not as deeply as he loved her, but still.

 

[Wishing Oceans]

If someone is there for you, is asking nothing of you and has loved you faithfully and unconditionally for all those years, and if that person is the one that you turn to for comfort and support when you are at your most vulnerable, and if they give you that comfort and support unconditionally asking nothing in return, then whether you acknowledge it or not, that is love, so yes, Buffy loved Spike. -- Jane Espenson

:smile0: I think that Jane sums it up pretty nicely.

 

[hearts4vampires]

I think Buffy could've loved Spike if she had let herself. I think that after a while of their relationship, she started to realize that she wasnt just using him anymore, but she had come to associate boyfriends/LOVE as getting hurt(angel leaving because of what she thinks of as HER fault, and then Riley leaving, also because of HER fault)so she repressed her feelings, becasue she didnt want to admit them and face getting hurt again. If she treated Spike like she didnt care about him, maybe she thought that eventually she WOULDNT care about him.
Which isnt fair to Spike, because he obviously loves her! Season 7, i dont remember the name, but its the episode where Xander and Anya and Will and all the potentials turn against her and she leaves? when Spike spends the whole night just holding her in his arms....that is my favorite buffy/spike moment of the entire series.

 

[DoctorWhovian]

The one thing that really annoys me is the infamous "Why does everything think I'm still in love with Spike" line. Many Spuffy fans use this as a life line when arguing about Buffy's feelings about Spike and to be honest, it makes me feel sorry for them.

Someone on Imdb even uses that as their sig.

I personally think that Buffy was not in love with Spike, but maybe she loved him in a friendly way.

 

[Blair Waldorf-Bass]

I definitely think that Buffy was in love with Spike. While they didn't start out great, they had everything that's in a dysfunctional relationship that will eventually work out. They went through being nemeses to annoying and bickering with each other to becoming lovers and having a violent and destructive relationship and from that, into a real relationship that was full of forgiveness for them both and redemption that became love.

Buffy didn't *want* to love Spike at first. Like she told Tara, he was everything that she was supposed to be against. Buffy realizes now that she isn't going to be getting the happily ever after fairy tale relationship that she had back when wishful thinking was thought of as a reality. Buffy's different now. She realizes that Buffy and Spike aren't just her and Spike. He's a vampire, she's the Slayer, and they're not just a man and a woman who are at it like bunnies. They went through so much more than Buffy and Angel ever went through. I mean, you obviously never forget the first person that you've loved or the first person that you thought you were going to spend your life with. But I think Buffy's matured incredibly (in season seven, anyway) and that while she does love Angel, it is that kind of brother and sister relationship that's no longer romantic love.

And I'd like to make this point as well: I don't think that Angel would just throw away what he had with Cordelia. What Cordelia and Angel had was an amazing and complicated relationship, in many ways much like the Spike and Buffy storyline. Angel changed Cordelia into this amazing and beautiful woman and she changed Angel into a better person. You can't compare to that. With Buffy and Angel it was taking from everyone around them and thinking that fairy tales could last a lifetime and forever, which it couldn't, and they both come to realize that, even if it *is* at different times. I think the immediate attraction between Angel and Cordelia in "Spin the Bottle" really explains their chemistry well. Joss and the writers didn't develop and write all of that beauty of the relationship of Cordelia and Angel for you Bangel fan to just go, "Hey! Buffy and Angel foreverrrrrrrrrrrr!"

I think Buffy needed to know that someone loved her, and that's why she used Spike. She knew that he was in love with her, and without a soul he let her take take and take from him and never give. She let him in but at the same time completely alienated herself from him. With a soul, he comes to finally realize what they've been doing and the disastrous results of their relationship. Season seven was really a time of learning for the both of them, and a time for them to develop and grow and learn the process of healing one another.

Their relationship in season seven had a very romantic and, I think, sexual angle that wasn't physical. And about the last scene in "Chosen." Joss says, "Buffy was in love with Spike the moment their hands clasped." I think she's been going through so much denial and *not* wanting to love him, but finally realizing that he's been here for her all along and that they have something amazing and beautiful that so few people have.

 

[Tranquillity]

I read something recently (might have been on the Dark Horse boards) a brilliant theory where the person made the link between Buffy singing "I touch the fire and it freezes me...", and the burning hands in Chosen. In OMWF she puts her hand to a flame and feels nothing, whereas in Chosen as her and Spike's hands spontaniously combust she is clearly feeling something, you can tell by the expression on her face. It symbolises that after years and years of not loving or feeling, that she's once again capable of experienceing these emoptions and its Spike who has taught her that lesson.

I think the person is pretty well spot on.

 

[Blair Waldorf-Bass]

Thanks! I would give you rep but I'm out for today... T_T Will be giving it to you as soon as I can, though. 🙂
Wow, I've never really thought that much into it. That's a really beautiful image, now that you say it out.

 

[PurplePoof]

I refuse to believe that Buffy loved Spike in any capacity. Even in season 7, what some may perceive as love came across to me more like neediness...just less obvious neediness than she had in season 6. As for her telling him she loved him? The guy was about to die so she and all her buddies could live...she was just being polite. 🙂

 

[Urgent Power]

I refuse to believe that Buffy loved Spike in any capacity. Even in season 7, what some may perceive as love came across to me more like neediness...just less obvious neediness than she had in season 6. As for her telling him she loved him? The guy was about to die so she and all her buddies could live...she was just being polite. 🙂

That's right, the guy was about to die - and that's(!) why she decided to tell him she loved him, because she might never get another chance. And no one tells someone they love them just to be polite. I mean, come on.

 

[Blair Waldorf-Bass]

I refuse to believe that Buffy loved Spike in any capacity. Even in season 7, what some may perceive as love came across to me more like neediness...just less obvious neediness than she had in season 6. As for her telling him she loved him? The guy was about to die so she and all her buddies could live...she was just being polite. 🙂

Has Buffy ever said the words "I love you" lightly? Aside from the time that she and Spike were under the marriage spell, there hasn't been a single time that she's used the words to be "polite." Buffy has matured so far in season seven, and it's highly far-fetched to think that she would just say it to be "polite." Buffy knows better than to tell someone that and not mean it. Besides, Joss said that Buffy loves Spike, and that enough is evidence enough for me. Also, Cassie predicted in "Help" that "Someday she'll tell you." Would Buffy really just say "I love you" as a spur-of-the-moment, "Oh, you're going to die so I'm going to lie to you and be polite," kind of things? I really find this a hard reason to believe.

 

[PurplePoof]

Ellyce, my question for you is why Spuffy fans get so defensive at any suggestion that Buffy didn't love Spike?

I was only being half-serious in my "polite" comment, as I was hoping would be evident by the smiley, but I clearly over-estimated the average Spuffy admirer. I stand by what I said, though. I do NOT believe Buffy loved Spike, and despite popular belief among the Spuffy admirers, it IS a debatable issue. There's no right or wrong answer. Just because someone says "I love you" does not mean they mean it...and I find your "well, has Buffy ever used those words lightly?" argument hard to swallow for a number of reasons. The guy was about to DIE...there's a lot of people I'd tell I loved them if they were about to DIE, even though I really don't. Maybe she genuinely believed at the time that she DID love Spike...he was doing a noble thing. Don't believe she loved him before that, though. Her behavior spoke volumes in and of itself. Why did Buffy only ever show Spike affection when she was depressed, isolated or needy? Does that sound like love to you? If it does...I shudder on behalf of your future love life.

 

[Blair Waldorf-Bass]

Ellyce, my question for you is why Spuffy fans get so defensive at any suggestion that Buffy didn't love Spike?

I was only being half-serious in my "polite" comment, as I was hoping would be evident by the smiley, but I clearly over-estimated the average Spuffy admirer. I stand by what I said, though. I do NOT believe Buffy loved Spike, and despite popular belief among the Spuffy admirers, it IS a debatable issue. There's no right or wrong answer. Just because someone says "I love you" does not mean they mean it...and I find your "well, has Buffy ever used those words lightly?" argument hard to swallow for a number of reasons. The guy was about to DIE...there's a lot of people I'd tell I loved them if they were about to DIE, even though I really don't. Maybe she genuinely believed at the time that she DID love Spike...he was doing a noble thing. Don't believe she loved him before that, though. Her behavior spoke volumes in and of itself. Why did Buffy only ever show Spike affection when she was depressed, isolated or needy? Does that sound like love to you? If it does...I shudder on behalf of your future love life.

What, we're supposed to say, "Hmm, yes, Buffy didn't love Spike, yeah, la la la..." That's like someone telling a Bangel shipper like yourself, "Buffy never loved Angel." Wouldn't you get all defensive then?

I think there's a right answer, and it's that Buffy loved Spike, although it may seem unclear and unsimple. Joss himself has said so, and if you want to argue with the creator of the show, that's really not my problem. I know that someone saying "I love you" doesn't mean that they mean it. I'm not stupid, you know. Like you said yourself, you don't usually tell people that are dying that you love them as they die, so why the heck would Buffy just randomly say it? I think Buffy loved Spike, although for me, it's starting during season seven. They had to go through redemption for one another, and how can you put so much trust and confidentiality and go through so many things with a person and NOT love them? And Buffy hasn't just shown her Spike affection when she was depressed, nerdy, or isolated. Quite the contrary, actually. Showing someone when you're depressed, nerdy, or isolated does not equal love in my eyes. And you needn't be worried about my love life, I can take care of that myself.

 

[PurplePoof]

Another typical assumption among Spuffy shippers is that if someone dislikes the Spuffy 'ship, they're obviously pro-Bangel. I'm not. The only 'ship in the entire Buffyverse that got any involvement from me was Cangel.

And if someone ventured to say that Angel didn't REALLY love Cordelia, I wouldn't get defensive. I'd take that as an opportunity for an intelligent conversation and debate.

Joss has said the season 8 comics are canon...so I don't really put too much emphasis on anything he has to say. It was never explicitly stated within the realm of the series, therefore it's up for discussion. I'm sorry...I know that makes your life more difficult...but bear with me.

You've clearly misread my post, as I said people WOULD, in fact, be very likely to tell someone they loved them as they died. I would, anyway, and lots of others would too. Knowing someone is about to die can inspire a lot of strange emotion and behavior.

When was Buffy ever HAPPY with Spike? When did she ever seek him out (romantically, that is) when she was happy and buzzing on life? She never did! He was nothing but a bleach blonde convenience for her, a lapdog that would always fetch when she wanted him to.

 

[Blair Waldorf-Bass]

Another typical assumption among Spuffy shippers is that if someone dislikes the Spuffy 'ship, they're obviously pro-Bangel. I'm not. The only 'ship in the entire Buffyverse that got any involvement from me was Cangel.

And if someone ventured to say that Angel didn't REALLY love Cordelia, I wouldn't get defensive. I'd take that as an opportunity for an intelligent conversation and debate.

Joss has said the season 8 comics are canon...so I don't really put too much emphasis on anything he has to say. It was never explicitly stated within the realm of the series, therefore it's up for discussion. I'm sorry...I know that makes your life more difficult...but bear with me.

You've clearly misread my post, as I said people WOULD, in fact, be very likely to tell someone they loved them as they died. I would, anyway, and lots of others would too. Knowing someone is about to die can inspire a lot of strange emotion and behavior.

When was Buffy ever HAPPY with Spike? When did she ever seek him out (romantically, that is) when she was happy and buzzing on life? She never did! He was nothing but a bleach blonde convenience for her, a lapdog that would always fetch when she wanted him to.

Well, your skin for BB is "I Will Remember You", so of course I assumed that you were a Bangel shipper. I'm glad to hear that you like Cangel, though. That was such a beautiful and wonderful relationship.

Although I don't like season 8, I acknowledge them as canon. When the creator says it's real, it's real. Heck, if Joss wanted to merge Dollhouse and Firefly into the universe of Buffy, we'd all accept it. (Not that it's going to happen, though.) How does that make my life more difficult? o_o

Buffy matured a lot in season seven, and she grew up. I believe that now that she is matured, grown, and a woman, she wouldn't "feel sorry" for Spike or say "I love you" just because those were the words that he wanted to hear.

Buffy was happy with Spike. When she came back, the first few episodes where she went to seek him out and he brought her out and they laughed and enjoyed themselves were some of the best moments of the Spuffy relationship. And I think that Spike's grown as well. Before, he did things out of love for Drusilla or Buffy. But in Angel, we really see him able to be his own person, although that really started to happen in season seven of Buffy.

 

[PurplePoof]

My skin is "I Will Remember You" because it's purple...I like purple.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this issue, I see where you're coming from but I don't share your views.

 

[Blair Waldorf-Bass]

My skin is "I Will Remember You" because it's purple...I like purple.

Ahahahahaha. Are you serious? 🙂 ROTFLOL. I'm not making fun of you, but it's just amusing. 😛

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this issue, I see where you're coming from but I don't share your views.

Agreed.

You're a nice person to debate with. 🙂

 

[PurplePoof]

Thank you, you too...I apologize for being a tad hostile...sometimes I get a little "passionate"...😛

And yes, haha, I was judging the skins by their color, not their titles. 😀

 

[Blair Waldorf-Bass]

Thank you, you too...I apologize for being a tad hostile...sometimes I get a little "passionate"...😛

And yes, haha, I was judging the skins by their color, not their titles. 😀

No problem, hun. 🙂 I get what viewpoint you're coming from.

And yes, haha, I was judging the skins by their color, not their titles. 😀

Haha, mine says "Fool For Love" but currently it's "BTVS 10th Anniversary" or "Chosen." I'm just too lazy to change mine. 😛

 

[InsaneMystic]

My skin is "I Will Remember You" because it's purple...I like purple.

I know it's off topic... but my fave color is purple, too - yet I would never content myself with a Bangel skin. 😀 😛

Also, the wonderful Tillowness that is the Tabula Rasa skin is green, befitting me as a member of the best dorm there is. 😉