Discussion of 5.22 "Not Fade Away" (WB-US) - Airing 5/19/04

Plus, if you noticed, Lorne had been drifting away from the group since Fred died. He hadn't been himself and he isn't a great fighter anyway, so maybe he saw this as a chance to leave.
 
ea Lorne wasent his normal self. I think that, because when he was in Pylea he couldn't kill humans and they all called him a coward so now that he killed Lindsay, it made him not a caward or sth like that. But after that he couldnt really finish off with them in the ally or something.

My sister said that she had never seen an ending like that before, and with most movies/TV shows they wrap it all up so you go with everything finished and not wondering what happens, but it didnt so its good that they did it that way, because its been almost a week and im Still wondering whats gonna happen to them now.
 
Alyson said:
My sister said that she had never seen an ending like that before, and with most movies/TV shows they wrap it all up so you go with everything finished and not wondering what happens,
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Tell your sister to rent a video called Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid.
 
When Angel made the decision to go after the Circle of the Black Thorn, did he ever considered that the Senior Partners would strike back in a manner that might result in an apocalypse for Los Angeles?
 
LoL Nerd4hire, we might just do that!
LadyLavinia, what do you mean? wasent that sorta the intention?
 
LadyLavinia said:
When Angel made the decision to go after the Circle of the Black Thorn, did he ever considered that the Senior Partners would strike back in a manner that might result in an apocalypse for Los Angeles?
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(modifying a line from Ghostbusters 2) Well see, LadyLavinia, there were so many apocolypses in L.A. anyway, Angel and co. didn't really think anyone would notice.
:shinner:

Who keeps making these smilies? They just get weirder and weirder:
:usa2: :Guillotin
 
i'm a little late to the mix but then i'm in australia so what can u expect. anyway. I loved it but everyone around me keeps saying they are dead. i don't believe that they were all killed. Maybe its just wishful thinking, but...well i think gunn died, he was almost dead anyway. i think its possible angel died although i hate to think it cos i was always kinda holding out for him and buffy one day. But not Spike, he is too...irreverant to die. He'd get his head ripped off and not dust just to spite someone. And as for Illyria...no she's not dead in fact i would love to see a show built around her, I think she would be the best choice for a buffyverse spinoff. You know, if faith can come visit occasionally.
 
Not being rude as I am, but dont all of the Aussie ones go at the same time? Im in Perth and it finished like months ago, are ya in the country where its shown later?
Also what does irreverant?
 
irreverant - um...not only doesn't believe in anything but kind of makes fun of it. Has little respect for authority etc. Spike it the epitome of irreverant.

I'm in tassie. We got it months ago too but sometime after the mainland.
 
"LadyLavinia, what do you mean? wasent that sorta the intention?"

"LadyLavinia, there were so many apocolypses in L.A. anyway, Angel and co. didn't really think anyone would notice."


Are you guys trying to say that you saw nothing wrong in Angel's decision to go after the Circle of the Black Thorn? Even if it would have meant an apocalypse for L.A.? Are you saying this, because Angel is the hero of the story?
 
LadyLavinia said:

Are you guys trying to say that you saw nothing wrong in Angel's decision to go after the Circle of the Black Thorn? Even if it would have meant an apocalypse for L.A.? Are you saying this, because Angel is the hero of the story?
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How can an apocolypse really be an apocolypse if it only happens to one city? Anyway, as insane as it may sound, even with a dragon (that we don't see), the ending still leaves it ambiguous as to whether or not this "apocolypse" will be known about to people at large.

I mean, I'm sure there'd have to be some sort of report on the evening news, but they might just misreport all of it as a large bomb or terrorist incident... not mentioning the dragon and all.

OTOH, it could have been the other kind of apocolypse that everyone knows about. So what? It's already been discussed that Angel isn't the nice and fluffy "Dudley Doo Right" style of hero, and if people at large finally came to realize there are things that go bump in the night (like demons), it might throw another spanner in the SP's plans.
 
OTOH, it could have been the other kind of apocolypse that everyone knows about. So what? It's already been discussed that Angel isn't the nice and fluffy "Dudley Doo Right" style of hero, and if people at large finally came to realize there are things that go bump in the night (like demons), it might throw another spanner in the SP's plans.


I know that Angel isn't a "Dudley Doo Right" style of hero. Personally, I don't consider him to be a hero of any kind (aside from his dealings with Faith in S1). But what I find amazing is that many others seemed to think of him as some kind of "Dudley Do Right" hero and have no problems with his decision to go after the Black Thorn Circle.
 
agel did what he had to. he seem to me to be the embodyment of do what is necerssary whatever the cost. He worked out that evil can not be defeated but it can be slowed down. He isn't a hero, Buffy was a hero, she woiuldn't kill unless her life was on the line, not only did angel kill Lyndsey (I consider having it ordered done to be perpetrating the act) but he (IMO) destroyed Lorne by getting him to do it. But in the longh run he did what he had to to weaken the other side and left the battle to whoever was next in line as the PTB's tool.
As for an apocolypse in LA, I dunno, maybe they killed most of those things before they went down, but i have a feeling that once the angel characters were dead (or escaped, or looked dead, or rescued) the monsters would go away, they weren't there to end the world, just angel.
 
Thanks. Hey I know something new! woo-hoo!
LL: If the dragons and demons defeat the AI and all of LA there not going to just wait around for nothing, they would go for other cities and maybe even countries, wouldnt they?
 
stormwolfe said:
agel did what he had to.
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Ah yes, "did what he had to do." A phrase very often used to try to justify morally objectionable or questionable actions.

Perhaps a better way to put it would be, "he did what he felt he had to." But then, duh. Who doesn't? Lex Luthor feels that he needs to dominate and have power, as do the Black Thorn (or were they the Black Circle? I forget, the various evil conspiracy groups tend to bleed together after a while). In general, most zealots are always doing what they feel they have to do because it is their very nature.

Angel may very well have done what he "had" to (i.e. felt he had to) do, but that doesn't, in any way, justify whatever he did. Of course, it doesn't automatically condemn him either.

IMHO, whether or not Angel was justified is separate and not related to the point that "he did what he `had' to do".

Alyson said:
LL: If the dragons and demons defeat the AI and all of LA there not going to just wait around for nothing, they would go for other cities and maybe even countries, wouldnt they?
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Not necessarily. It seems to me that if the SPs (that is who you were talking about, right?) can summon dragons at will, they could have destroyed the Earth in the conventional way long before now. I don't think the dragons and other beasties would wreak too much havoc outside of killing (or attempting to kill) Angel and maybe messing up several city blocks.

Also, having dragons and monsters rampaging around L.A. would be at odds with how the SPs have been proceeding to their over-arching apocolypse thus far: they've been doing everyting super stealthy so that no one even notices. The episode Underneath is a great example of this stuff, and the one where the idea of an apocolypse behind-the-scenes was first introduced.
(I know I'm not LL, but I felt like responding anyway.) 🙂
 
Perhaps you are right about Angel doung what he 'had' to do.
On the point of the apocolypse however. Just because everything had been behind the scenes before doesn't matter. Before they planned the apocolypse and how they would bring it around. This time, I got the impression all those demons were attacking as a reactionary action. AI angered the bad guys and the bad guys reacted. That was my impression anyway.
 
But why would they just bring all of them to kill just angel, gunn and spike? I mean thats a bit over-reacting, maybe that was a trigger to them and now they wont wait aroundanymore and do tnhings they "behind the scenes" way they will kill the earth all in one shot.
 
maybe its overkill but think about everything that they had made it through. They had killed the order which one would have thought impossible, they have irritated them from the begining. If someone thwarts everything u send thier way wouldn't u kind of over react when u really get annoyed?
 
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