Discussion of 5.22 "Not Fade Away" (WB-US) - Airing 5/19/04

[SlayerDrow]

Could any of you get to sleep after watching this?

No, I couldn't sleep.


I cried for at least an hour from Wesley's death until i finally fell asleep. I knew it was going to be him ::crying2:
I loved how they did Spike's poetry and how he finally got some recognition, and it was so funny when Angel says, "One of you will betray me." and Spike raises his hand. then Angel goes, "Its not you." and Spike replies, "Can I deny you three times?" That was the best, but i really didn't like the ending. By the comment Illyria made, "You're fading. You won't last ten minutes." (or something like that) it makes you think all of them died...so is that true?

Also I hated that stupid 'thank you' message from 'our friends at the WB.' Well go fall into a black hole WB, I don't know what kind of friend would make thousands of people want to storm their office and ax murder the people inside? (that sounds kind of fun actually...)
I've been kind of in a complete daze today, like I'm going to wake up from this dream I'm having and be looking forward to a fresh Angel next wednesday ::uh:: I wonder what piece of crap gets Angel's time slot?

WB really needs to just die...I hope they lose 85 bakazillion dollars 😛

 

[ana8]

I've just seen it..And how am I supposed to go to sleep now?? I loved it..Gosh now I can say it..I like new Connor,and the scene between Wes/Illyria/Fred was just marvellous...I wasn't at all suspecting that Lorne'd kill Lindsey..I'm so glad I haven't read any spoilers..It was all an amazing surprise to me...Now I need to think it all over to post more

 

[Jacklyn]

Quite honestly, I feel like I've been hit in the head with a brick. Since the end of the show last night, I've been all dazed out.

First of all, let me just say that I thought the final episode was unbelievable! Everyone's final days were so appropriate and meaningful, and I swear to God I fell out of my chair laughing when Spike said "effulgent" 🙂 and when Angel said "I want you Lindsey, followed by, "I'm thinking of rephrasing that". "I'd feel more comfortable if you did." That was great! 😀 I also loved Harmony asking for a recommendation letter and Angel offering to help Connor with his resume.-Those things are just the quirkiness that we've grown to expect from Joss. That coupled with the absolute pain of Wesley's death, Illyria's lie, and the final moment, showed that this episode embodied everything we loved about the show. It was the epitome-The lights fade on our heroes, battling on for us. We will never know what happened to them, but we have hope that they survive 😀 It really is a beautiful thing.

"Let's get to work."

I have to say, this episode hit me REALLY hard-it's silly, I know, but as I was being disgusted by the WB's Thank You ad, I stayed watching the WB in my state as they followed it up with an interview with David Boreanaz at the end of the news. So, as I watched and waited for the interview which would be shown in the last 5 minutes of the news show and would end up telling the world that David's son is Jaimie, not Jayden :rolls eyes:, I got to see all the horrible things going on in Iraq, and some terrible things happening in my frickin' back yard. And that's when I realized why I love Buffy and Angel so much.

In a world where we are in such desperate need of heroes like them, for an hour every week, we at least got to pretend like they existed. Wouldn't it be nice-an army of five or ten up against all the evils in the world? With a very good chance of winning? That's something we'll never REALLY see.

I told this to my hubby. His response? An ode to Cordy... "Great! Now I'm gonna be stuck having serious thoughts all day!" 🙂

Angel will be sorely missed.

 

[Mason]

I have to say, this episode cemented Angel season 5 as quite possibly the best season out of all of Buffy and Angel to me, perhaps, PERHAPS falling behind Buffy season 5.

It's sad, but I hope to God that they don't bring back Angel in any form whatsoever. The ending was absolutely perfect in everyway. To me, it wasn't a cliffhanger, as I think it's quite obvious that they would die during that fight. The final fight related to the line at the Black Thorn meeting - "Regrettably there's something stronger than loyalty - hope." Angel and the crew never ran out of hope and continued to fight the good fight until the very end. In my eyes, there can be NO better end.

Wes' death was extremely sad and I think it was possibly the best death out of any death from the Buffyverse. I thought it was appropriate that Illyria altered to Fred's form again; Wes witnessed his true love die, and now, in a way, Fred witnessed her true love die. Perhaps Illyria even loved him by the end, even if he could never love her.

The perfect days were excellent. Spike's poetry was the best, I adored it. I expected him to have a huge brawl, with all the drink he was taking in, but as soon as I saw him on stage I cheered.

Connor's return was brilliant. I didn't expect him to come back at all, but I'm glad he did. The Angel/Hamilton fight was excellent, and the ending was totally unexpected to me, with Angel biting Hamilton.

When Wes was trapped by Vail, I was hoping that Willow would somehow make an appearance, but in my heart I knew it wouldn't happen. I'm glad really, as the show finished as I wanted it to, focusing on the Angel crew, not the cast of Buffy.

Absolutely adored it, one of my favourite episodes ever. 10/10.

 

[Baron Samedi]

OK. I just saw the finish an hour ago and I'm totally reeling.

At the start of the episode the only thing I knew was one of the main characters was going to die and of course as is always the case with me- i thought it would be my favourite: Wesley.

I loved how they managed to put so many funny moments in such a serious tale. The Spike reading poetry was of course priceless.

To be honest half way through I changed my mind about who would die to Gunn as he could never have taken all those vamps by himself. When it changed scene to Wesley floating in the air I was totally shouting "No! Not Wesley! Not Wesley! Please!" Actually I thought his actual being stabbed was lame. When he reached out I was hoping for the collapsable sword to pop out. Alas its a knife smaller than one i'd use to cut an apple. In the end i'm a romantic (I even cried) and I hasten to remind you all that we have only the evil doctors word (which isn't worth much) that Fred's soul was gone. I believe they are together forever in another place. ::love:: There is actually one way Fred could return even if her soul was lost. Since Illyria has all of Fred's memories if she erased everything about Illryia out then effectively she would become Fred. It was something I meant to mention way back during Shells.

My favourite character is dead. Woe is me for even if Angel should return it is toast without marmalade. Why did it have to be you Wes?

I saw the whole Lorne killing Lynsey thing the second Lorne appeared. It was blindingly obvious from my point of view.

I found ignoring the obvious lack of money spent on special effects was pretty easy with a show so close to my heart. And with a title like Not Fade Away i sorta thought it was gonna be a cliffhanger. What a cliffhanger! Crap special effects but the intentions were all there. I loved it. A bitter-sweet ending for the best show on TV bar NONE.

I will miss it terribly. I feel like i just lost a friend for forever.

It's been a blast you guys. This will not be my last post cuz I know I'll be too tempted to reply to something but for now.... I'll catch you all when Joss returns the Buffyverse to our screens. Hopefully on FOX or even FX or HBO for a truely dark and nightmarish world or whatever he has in store. ::dance::

WB I will never pay any heed to ever again. Everything on your channel sucks as of today. Especially reality TV. Stick it up there and swivel cuz you guys suck ass. A bitter ending for a station who I feel were nothing but bad news for us Jossites. I know they gave us five years but it wasn't finished and you knew it. ::nono1:: Thanks my @$$h0L£.

Signing off
Baron

I'm to go and sulk for several years now. ::crying2:

 

[FaithsTruCallin]

I think that it was just a great ending. Wesley... I was spoiler-less and I knew that he was going to die. Just like Cordelia, his character has gone full circle. His character just kept getting crazier and crazier. He came as a watcher with a stick in his @$$. Than he had a sweet underage quicky. Than he got fired. Than he became a rouge demon hunter. than he stole his best friends son. than he got his throat slit. than he saved his best friend. became good again. and started to go dark (Fred's death) than he, in the last seconds of his life, got some closure. than he died. NOW THAT'S WHAT I CALL FULL CIRCLE. I loved the Fred thing. and I refuse to believe you about fred not being with Wesley. I REFUSE! Even though it makes sense, i'm am just going to say, Fred's soul was trapped in illyria, and that's why she could take her form. and when illyria/ fred punched the warlock, fred was freed to be with Wes. Sure it's farfetched. I don't care. That's my theory. btw... I think that this left people with the perfect opportunity for a fanfiction website totally dedicated to what happened after the last episode. if you are going to write one, don't forget, THEY ARE IN AN ALLEY BEHIND THE HYPERION! Now write, write my pretties write! I think I will write one too. he he. I'm a good author imo. (Theatre geek). (I can even tell you the difference between "Theater" and "Theatre". he he. g2g now.

EDIT: WTF? That's not my signature! (The place where I kept my signature on it's own page wants to charge me now... F that...) Lol. It's hilarious! I am going to keep it. LOL! LMFAO!!!!!!!! I LOVE IT!!!!! LOL!!!!!

 

[Willow03]

oo yeah I forgot about Spikes poetry, that was a really funny scene. Also Harmony siding w/ the senior partners..intersting.


I can't belive it ended that way?? What was that? That was a terrible ending....🙁

 

[BillieHunter]

I can't belive it ended that way?? What was that? That was a terrible ending....🙁

I really liked the way they ended it. i like open endings. It let's you keep wondering what could have happened. Everyone can believe in their OWN ending..what they want to happen...of course I wish they would have shown us and give us another season...but I think they really ended it in a great way...

As much as I hated to see Wes die...his charcter has come such a ling way, and they ended his character in the best possible way.

But...Thank you from your friends at the WB...yea...right...friends...more like *^*&% &%$ ^$!##& *^%*!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I feel better now...ok no I don't.....Arg...that made me soooooooooooo mad!

 

[Mdrio9]

Ahh... but Wesley doesn't get to be with Fred. Fred was destroyed in the fires of resurrection when Illyria was brought into her body. Her soul was destroyed, that means she doesn't go on to an after-life, isn't able to be brought back, and doesn't float around in the ether of our dimension. She's just gone. So really, Wesley will never be at peace. I hope I haven't made you miserable or anything 😛

Forgot about that. ::crying:: I guess that really was Wesley's last chance to be "with her." You didn't crush me too badly...::huh:: 🙂

 

[xtrustno1x]

My favourite character is dead. Woe is me for even if Angel should return it is toast without marmalade. Why did it have to be you Wes?

This is exactly what I keep asking - Why Wes. I understand the why - his character had come full circle. It was a good death, and I agree with it. I just wish he didn't have to go. And I totally agree...any subsequent reprisal of Angel just won't be the same without Wes....

On a side note...me and some friends are going out to the Art District in Dallas tomorrow night. They have an open-mike poetry reading event. I'm very tempted to recite Spike's poem as homage to a great show....

 

[Kuznya]

The episode was perfect my only regret was having read the spoiler for it before hand. I envy all of you who watched it untainted by a spoiler.

As far as them all dieing. Alot of you dont seem to realize that Joss did not change the ending of the season just because the show was canceled. This is how he planed on ending it anyway. In interviews hes said the only thing he might of done different if there was another season was not make it so emotionally hard on the viewers.

Illyria was one of the best parts by far. I think when she is Fred she truely feels what she is saying. If she is just channeling freds memories or her own feelings isnt clear but when she stands up and stares at cyvis the look on her face is 100% pure emotional rage. She wanted revenge for Wes and nothing less.

Even in the scene in the alley *Wesley is dead. I feel grief for him. I cant seem to control it. I wish to do more violence* there was gonna be some major demon butt kickin.

As far as the fading you only have 10 minutes thing. She was talking to Gunn. His wounds were so severe that, like with wes, she figured they were fatal and he was going to die or at least pass out from blood loss.

It was the perfect way to end the series. By far the best show of the season if no the series.

 

[Raine]

Absoloutely incredible! I find it hard to type anything at all because most of what I am feeling has been posted several times before. So I'll sum up everything I felt in as short a post as possible.

Without a doubt, the Illyria/Fred and Wes scene stole the show. Sure I was feeling a little emotional throughout the episode, but that scene broke me down. Totally crushed me. It was so nice to see Anne again, I missed her and was very pleasently surprised to see her again. Oh, and Spike's poetry, I felt like cheering (well, inside I was). I thought that was a very clever call back. Anyway, in the end, Angel's a hero. IMO, this finale was BETTER than Buffy's.

 

[FaithsTruCallin]

I totally agree that this ending was way better than Buffy. AND THAT IS SAYING SOMETHING! I love Anne. When she was on Buffy, she was definitly my favorite recuring character... than there was Faith....

 

[Mr_Gordo]

I damn near lost it when I saw Anne. Seeing her again really made my day. I was wondering whatever happened to her for years now. I love her character because she is a character for the hardcore fans. When she showed up on Angel after being on 2 eps of Buffy, they didn't hammer into your head who she was. She never even mentioned Buffy, or even that her and Angel had met before. Great little touch having her in the last show.

 

[Lee]

A little disapointed, I gotta say...
Mostly because I didnt get to see the fight scenes much (especially Illyria)
I loved the Fred/Illyria morph, that has gotta be the best thing Ive ever seen on Angel! lol!
The ending was disapointing too, I wouldnt have minded so much if there hadnt been so many demons...because I really wanted to see some action...
I was more impressed with Chosen (cuz Im one for the fight scenes...)

 

[MentPatient]

THEY KILLED ANGEL!

Wow... that was an interesting episode, Illyria feels grief for Wesley... Okay, I think Illyria may be a chick.

I wonder where Lorne is going to go... Hehe, he shot Lindsey (GOOD JOB!).

Man... now I have nothing to watch...

When she showed up on Angel after being on 2 eps of Buffy, they didn't hammer into your head who she was. She never even mentioned Buffy, or even that her and Angel had met before. Great little touch having her in the last show.

When was this...?

STUPID WB!

 

[Xander]

I was spoiled because I knew Harmony betrayed Angel with Hammilton because some selfish t- on the WB page posted that (but they also posted everyone dies, but I figured that it was a lie because there were TV movie talks and such). Although when Angel said distract him by.... I thought he may end with "or breasts, I don't care."

Also I figured a spoiler out myself last week that p**sed me off. I knew someone was going to die, I had read an interview where Amy said "Alexis finished his scenes last week" and I had seen an image for the finale of them in the alley, minus Wesley. Last week on the bus I pieced it together and I was so damn angry with myself.

Anyway good ep. I shot up when the credits came up. The Hammilton and Angel fight was cool, kinda continuation because Spike said in "The Gift" about it being "in the blood" and it seems his power was in his blood, or at least his defence.

Wesley and Illyria/Fred was touching. I thought when they were sat on the bed Illyria would change and they would have sex, kinda like what happened towards the end of Buffy, everyone got laid. Was nice to see Illyria having some emotions and feelings and was it the fact she looked like Fred she blubbered so much, that persona overcame her, or was that all Illyria? Also Wes with the magic, made me think of Willow.

Speaking of, I expected Faith to pop up, I knew Willow wasn't, nor Buffy but I heard Eliza had taken time of Tru and was hoping. Was no massive loss but would of been nice to have seen Faith.

Lorne shooting Lindsay, I think it was more deathening for Lorne. As he said hes not a fighter but he had to do this and he did, then left. Wonder where he went, certainly not Pylea. Maybe Las Vegas again, who knows. Hope he becomes happy, has his own club and stuff (thinking of, his first line was "First I was afraid, I was petrified", kinda apt considering).

Gunn, poor Gunn all hurt and everything. Was nice to see him finally get to dust some vamps. I was reading Battle Royale earlier and got to the part where the teacher person threw a knife into someone's skull, reminded me of that.

Spike, I had forgotten about his "Bloody awful" poetry, I guess living for 100+ years gives you time to improve. He saved the little baby, kinda like Angel in "Darla".

When Angel signed away the Shanshu I thought "maybe it doesn't count as his name is technically Liam" but I guess the old "what is in a name?" thing. And also that would make the whole Angel taking over W&H void as well.

I think I may have to write an alternative finale.

 

[LadyLavinia]

My View

Was was the whole series about? I hope it was about Angel "fighting the good fight".

The show left questions I hope that someone can answer. One, was the Shanshu prophecy a hoax? If so, why? Whoever perputrated the hoax (and I'm not just talking about the actions in S5's "Destiny"), why did he/she or they do it?

Two, why was it so important to the Senior Partners of Wolfram and Hart to corrupt a souled Angel? Why did they fear him so much? In the end, Buffy made a bigger impact on the whole good/evil battle than he ever did - aside from the defeat of Jasmine. So why go after Angel, instead of Buffy?

Why was it necessary for Illyria to change into Fred, so she can weep over Wes' body? What the hell was that about? So we, the fans, can mourn over what could have been? Considering that I have always loathed the whole Wes/Fred/Illyria romance, this scene did nothing for me?

What in the hell did Angel accomplish after five years? And couldn't this show have ended on a better written note, if the WB had not pulled the plug on this show? The entire show ended with me being disgusted over Angel's character. What a waste this has been!




I find it pathetic that he died madly and obssessively in love with a woman who never really understood him. And who probably would have NOT made him happy. How sad and pathetic.

But then, Spike's final situation was equally pathetic. All of that effort he had went into being his own man in BUFFY's S7, seemed to went nowhere, after ending up in Los Angeles. Instead of going off on his own after becoming corporeal, he decides to remain in L.A., because of his need to be part of a group.

And now that I think of it, all of the characters of Angel and Co. are sad. They all ended up in their situations, because of this need to hang around Angel. Jeez! Pathetic!

 

[Jacklyn]

No offence, Lady Lavinia, but I often wonder if you even like the shows, because all I ever seem to read here is what you hate about them. Do you have anything positive to say, at all?

Don't get me wrong, we all have a right to our own opinion. I'm not downing that. I'm just asking you about yours.

 

[raz3186]

I was upset about the whole signing away of the Shanshu.

ya know what's strange? they ruined this a long time ago in like season two. remember when he got that demon's blood on him (or in him, it was bright green stuff), and he was turned human again? i could have sworn they said that it would be permanent. so theoretically, all he would have to do is wait till things settle down and go tackle one of those demons again and become human. unless i'm missing something?