Discussion of 8.33 "Twilight Part 2" - Released 3/04/10 (Dark Horse)
- Thread starter Tranquillity
- Start date
Five
Magical Proficiency Level
Oh, Andrew, I think you're kind of jumping the gun here. (God I hope I'm getting this expression right.) I really don't understand what you're disliking so much. You've always been the first to talk about the limits of the comics media : clearly this conversation would have been longer on TV, here the points just go one after the other. It's unpleasant but it didn't keep me from understanding the unfolding of things. Plus, we don't know anything for sure. Yet. We know nothing for sure : was Willow right about the Slayers death giving Buffy power or is Angel right when he says this has nothing to do with that ? What the hell is Angel talking about ? What did Giles know or do ? What's going to happen now ?
I actually liked this issue. Almost loved. I'm still a bit fuzzy on the details.
So, if you want to know what actually happens, behold...
Willow and Amy do a spell to unveal Twilight's HQ's hiding spell. Meanwhile, Faith (and then... Andrew!) try to fight Twilight but don't succeed. As soon as the spell works, Buffy's going there and flies off with Twilight. She does a bit of her mockery sassy goodness, but has nothing left to say when Twilight takes off his mask FINALLY and tadaaaa it's Angel. Giles says it in the next page, in case people hadn't recognized our lovely ensouled vampire from the drawing. Anyway, as far as I'm concerned, he can just keep talking, because Angel just said Giles knew something that he didn't tell Buffy or Faith, the reason for his absences, etc... Apparently, there's a Chosen Chosen One WITHIN the Slayers and guess who it appears to be...?! Kennedy ! No, just kidding. Faith, actually. Haha, got you, this is wayyy too easy. It's our favourite blondie obviously. Who's trying to kill Angel (he just told her he isn't Angelus but, anyway, you know, been there done that.). But doesn't succeed. She's really angry at him obviously, and ooh spoiler alert, she even uses the F word ! Don't worry, it's in @%# language (I hope they have a name for that). And he talks to her about restoring the balance, about how much worse things could have been if governments of the world had taken Slayers for terrorists and had aligned to wipe them out or whatever. And he points out how their powers are very similar, and tells her that's for a reason, and also tells her that's why she's glowing when she gets near him. Oh yeah, cos, she's glowing when she gets near him. You know, Cordy-style. Anyhoo. He then goes on to tell her her new powers have nothing to do with the Slayers' deaths and have something to do with them (Buffy&Angel), who are connected, deeper than they ever imagined. And she feels it's right, cos she can experience the connection too. And he tells her their connexion is so strong, that's why they couldn't be happy with anyone else, and lots of Bangel goodness that, I promise you, will make Bangel AND Spuffy fans's heads go boom but not for the same reasons. And he convices her that they belong together, and that for once, the right thing to do is also the most wonderful, that she can be happy. And... She kisses him. Oh, and, the next issue promises by its title that they'll be F-word-ing very soon. Yay?
I hope that was as clear as possible. It's not very clear in my head anyway.
I liked it, though. I'm not hardcore Bangel fan, but have always believed the show clearly stated Buffy and Angel were meant to be together, so their whole connection stuff kinda satisfies me. I pray that people won't throw stones at the whole show just because it's not Spike. There are a lot of questions, but also a lot of pertinent, interesting stuff. The whole power-balance, we got right from the start. But there's something else, something that concerns the whole shows, and that's what Whatshisname wanna talk about when he says "mythology", I guess. Next issue will be big, kids. Or bigger. As for me? I can't wait.
I actually liked this issue. Almost loved. I'm still a bit fuzzy on the details.
So, if you want to know what actually happens, behold...
Willow and Amy do a spell to unveal Twilight's HQ's hiding spell. Meanwhile, Faith (and then... Andrew!) try to fight Twilight but don't succeed. As soon as the spell works, Buffy's going there and flies off with Twilight. She does a bit of her mockery sassy goodness, but has nothing left to say when Twilight takes off his mask FINALLY and tadaaaa it's Angel. Giles says it in the next page, in case people hadn't recognized our lovely ensouled vampire from the drawing. Anyway, as far as I'm concerned, he can just keep talking, because Angel just said Giles knew something that he didn't tell Buffy or Faith, the reason for his absences, etc... Apparently, there's a Chosen Chosen One WITHIN the Slayers and guess who it appears to be...?! Kennedy ! No, just kidding. Faith, actually. Haha, got you, this is wayyy too easy. It's our favourite blondie obviously. Who's trying to kill Angel (he just told her he isn't Angelus but, anyway, you know, been there done that.). But doesn't succeed. She's really angry at him obviously, and ooh spoiler alert, she even uses the F word ! Don't worry, it's in @%# language (I hope they have a name for that). And he talks to her about restoring the balance, about how much worse things could have been if governments of the world had taken Slayers for terrorists and had aligned to wipe them out or whatever. And he points out how their powers are very similar, and tells her that's for a reason, and also tells her that's why she's glowing when she gets near him. Oh yeah, cos, she's glowing when she gets near him. You know, Cordy-style. Anyhoo. He then goes on to tell her her new powers have nothing to do with the Slayers' deaths and have something to do with them (Buffy&Angel), who are connected, deeper than they ever imagined. And she feels it's right, cos she can experience the connection too. And he tells her their connexion is so strong, that's why they couldn't be happy with anyone else, and lots of Bangel goodness that, I promise you, will make Bangel AND Spuffy fans's heads go boom but not for the same reasons. And he convices her that they belong together, and that for once, the right thing to do is also the most wonderful, that she can be happy. And... She kisses him. Oh, and, the next issue promises by its title that they'll be F-word-ing very soon. Yay?
I hope that was as clear as possible. It's not very clear in my head anyway.
I liked it, though. I'm not hardcore Bangel fan, but have always believed the show clearly stated Buffy and Angel were meant to be together, so their whole connection stuff kinda satisfies me. I pray that people won't throw stones at the whole show just because it's not Spike. There are a lot of questions, but also a lot of pertinent, interesting stuff. The whole power-balance, we got right from the start. But there's something else, something that concerns the whole shows, and that's what Whatshisname wanna talk about when he says "mythology", I guess. Next issue will be big, kids. Or bigger. As for me? I can't wait.
We both went through this when the covers were leaked. Ride it out, be angry/furious/crushed, but don't make your final judgement on your involvement in this verse until we know everything.
I don't really know you but given the manner in which you post and basically everything that I have seen of you on these boards, this show, these characters mean alot to you. If you are anything like me, than they are a big part of your history.
So, just hang on and see what happens, don't burn your bridges until you are sure of what you are leaving behind.
Joan the Vampire Slayer
I agree but it's hard...
AndrewCrossett
Satsu Otaku
This is probably the one thing that makes my head spin around the most. He basically says he killed those Slayers so that the governments of the world wouldn't come and kill them. He killed them to save them from being killed by someone else.
And Buffy, who is smart enough to have actually gotten into a university at one point, buys this as a good point?
Aaargh!!!
The things is... if this story looks like it's going where it's going, it will forever poison my enjoyment of what came before as well. I'll never be able to enjoy watching Buffy or Angel again, knowing what they made of themselves.
Is it worth the risk, or should I just cut my losses now and stop reading here?
Honestly? After 13 years? Yes, yes it is. If you walked away now feeling the way you do and thinking the things you're thinking you will never look on the verse with anywhere near the same enjoyment again, anyway. If you're worst fears are realised at least you can say you gave it a shot. You don't have to like any of this, in fact you can damn well dispise it but I think it would be ludicrous to pack it in now, especially when we can only speak in "Ifs" and "Maybes".
citiegal17
Potential
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2010
- Messages
- 189
speculation
After reading what has been blogged there are some things that stood out. One thing is that Angel is using the excuse again that he is minimizing the number of deaths, but there is no real proof that the supposted prophecied deaths will really even occur, is a prophetcy after all. Hasn't the one main themes in the prophtecy girl is that you can't trust them, and that they are not doomed to occured. Xander outright proved that you are not bound by any prophetcy. He ignored the prophetcy and did one of the most heroic acts of the entire season. He is the hero even if he isn't always acknowledged as much. He is a better hero than Angel was even if he is just human, he much more noble. This probably why he has always been able to see through Angel, why he dislikes him some much, since he is long over being jealous of him, which I think he was once he started dating Cordelia. There also a lot of parellels in Angels and Xander's love interest. That should be a detail that should at least stand out, even if it seems trivial. The B/X relationship seems more epic than B/A, I don't think Angel's relationship with Buffy was even in the best of interest of Buffy in the first place. Whether he had a soul or not, she is a character that so clearly wants to just be a normal human girl. Buffy's own mother wasn't really happy with their relationship, this should be saying something.
After reading what has been blogged there are some things that stood out. One thing is that Angel is using the excuse again that he is minimizing the number of deaths, but there is no real proof that the supposted prophecied deaths will really even occur, is a prophetcy after all. Hasn't the one main themes in the prophtecy girl is that you can't trust them, and that they are not doomed to occured. Xander outright proved that you are not bound by any prophetcy. He ignored the prophetcy and did one of the most heroic acts of the entire season. He is the hero even if he isn't always acknowledged as much. He is a better hero than Angel was even if he is just human, he much more noble. This probably why he has always been able to see through Angel, why he dislikes him some much, since he is long over being jealous of him, which I think he was once he started dating Cordelia. There also a lot of parellels in Angels and Xander's love interest. That should be a detail that should at least stand out, even if it seems trivial. The B/X relationship seems more epic than B/A, I don't think Angel's relationship with Buffy was even in the best of interest of Buffy in the first place. Whether he had a soul or not, she is a character that so clearly wants to just be a normal human girl. Buffy's own mother wasn't really happy with their relationship, this should be saying something.
F
frankie
Guest
This issue didn't surprise me greatly. It felt just as out of touch with the Buffy-verse as previous issues. I have continued to collect the comics, simply to see the Twilight reveal. I found it strange, and I know it's just the first step on how Twilight came about, but early thoughts, Buffy's weak willed and Angel's a piece of scum.
I'll read maybe three more issues, if things haven't improved, I'll stop buying. Feels like a waste of money at this point. I enjoyed Brian K. Vaughan's run and that was all.
I think Joss needs to take a long vacation, because if he thinks this is a fitting, exciting and interesting continuation of the series, well, he really has jumped the shark!
Sorry season 8 fans but I really do think this is crap. And it has nothing to do with it being in comic book form, because I'm a big old comic book geek.
I'll read maybe three more issues, if things haven't improved, I'll stop buying. Feels like a waste of money at this point. I enjoyed Brian K. Vaughan's run and that was all.
I think Joss needs to take a long vacation, because if he thinks this is a fitting, exciting and interesting continuation of the series, well, he really has jumped the shark!
Sorry season 8 fans but I really do think this is crap. And it has nothing to do with it being in comic book form, because I'm a big old comic book geek.
Wilder Midnight
dandy lion
last issue was so much fun.
no so much true this time.
no so much true this time.
Joan the Vampire Slayer
Understatement of the year! ;)
Tranquillity
That'll put marzipan in your pie plate bingo
oh wow, I don't know what to think...I'm kinda in shock. I can see why Andrew Crossett (in earlier post) is feeling a little disillusioned with the direction the story has taken; I'm right there with you babe. Angel's explanation for donning mask and costume just seemed . . . lame and what was even lamer was Buffy swallowing the explanation with such ease...one puppy dog expression from Twangel, a few well chosen words and she's putty in his hands...Am I wrong in wanting more from her than this? Some people have said she's under a spell or a thrall but I don't know...she seems pretty cognisant to me. And Kean, you are right - his use of the name 'Buff' is really odd. Actually, Angel spilling his guts emotionally is a little odd. And isn't glowing another word for effulgent...
Joan the Vampire Slayer
Carpe Spuffy!
Kean...I don't know.
I'm just...so upset. I'm honestly not sure how to respond to this. To say I am shocked and appalled would be in understatement.
I care about this characters, I am invested in this universe. Perhaps, I'm staring to realize, to a level which is unhealthy to me. Today, as I read the issue on the bus because I was too excited to wait until I got back to my apartment, I found myself feeling physically ill.
It is so obvious how Angel is manipulating her! The idea that Buffy couldn't be happy with anyone else is absurd. Angel does not define her! My only shred of hope comes from the idea that he might be Angelus. After all, he did call her "Buff" - Angelus' signature nickname for her.
I'm sorry, but this nothing to do with Bangel. To join with him would be to betray the people she loves and the people who have been there for here every step of the way. I just can't...deal with that.
To think that Buffy would kiss him after all that has happened...is just, just....beyond understanding for me.
Perhaps I need to take a break from the Buffyverse.
*sighs*
There is my initial reaction. I'm exhausted. I'm going to bed.
Joan the Vampire Slayer
Carpe Spuffy!
I'd say stop reading if your status as a fan is at risk. Is it worth the risk to keep reading? Hell no! You and I - all of us, to varying degrees - love this universe, we love these characters like they're our friends. We have invested hours and hours of our lives being entertained by this story, discussing this story, and why? Because it make us happy. If it no longer does that, something needs to be done. You need to do what you have too, Andrew, to reclaim what you loved so much about the Buffyverse in the first place. Season 8 is CRAP. The rest of the show? Brilliant. Andrew, don't forget how much you love this show, please. And I won't too. We need you in the fandom... I'd be sad if you left.
For me, though, it's not as simple as "choosing" to discount Season 8. We can't deny it's canon. For me, that's denial.
I head is spinning...feel sick. Must sleep.
Listen: I"m going to a Dark Horse Panel next week. Anyone have any good questions for Scott Allie?
AndrewCrossett
Satsu Otaku
Not at all. You know, I used to get angry at Xander back when he used to rip Buffy for turning into a blithering idiot wherever Angel was concerned, but now I see that his status as "the one who sees things" was well earned.
In this issue, Buffy seemed to lose 80% of her IQ points when Angel started talking. The fact that everything he said to her was clearly lies didn't seem to make any difference.
1. "I didn't kill anyone." Uh, yes you did, dude. We saw you. Even Buffy doesn't buy this one.
2. "They would have been killed anyway as terrorists by a terrified populace." Nobody had anything against Slayers until after Harmony's TV show started... and we saw Twilight long before that time. Buffy still has enough upstairs to call him on this one, too.
3. "You unbalanced things by creating more Slayers." Huh? The status quo was one teenaged girl with a pointy stick fighting countless thousands of vampires and demons. And you're saying adding a few more girls with pointy sticks unbalances things?
4. "Anyway, there's a magical bond between us, Bella... I mean, Buffy. See how I'm sparkling right now? You can't fight your love for your sparkly vampire. Now unzip and let's do it."
Still, it's nice that Buffy's 200 dead Slayers at least rated a five-minute temper tantrum from her. I'm sure they'd be glad to know how she had their back like that.
It may be that he was saying "Buffy," but she cut him off at that moment by screaming at him.
Tranquillity
that was the first time, but he calls her 'buff' in the panel with the close up of his eyes
Joan the Vampire Slayer
Carpe Spuffy!
Yep. It's SO obvious how incredibly masterfully Angel has manipulated Buffy in this scene. "...Don't you want to be happy?" GIVE ME A BREAK.
"There's a reason I loved you from the moment I saw you."
VOMIT.
"I was in L.A. Things got very funky." HUH? 'FUNKY'? Is that Angel's new word for mass murder?
Angel is manipulating her love for him to his advantage. That's NOT OK.
Someone PLEASE reconcile this for me....please.
GrrArghx
No touching my clipboard!
You guys are making me want to read the comics. lol
There's a comic book store literally a minute down the road from me.
I might check it out tomorrow.
There's a comic book store literally a minute down the road from me.
I might check it out tomorrow.
AndrewCrossett
Satsu Otaku
Awww! S2 Xander, how I missed you! I guess I'm the only one who really loved Xander in S2 😀
1) What is this glow? How does it affect them?
2) When Buffy and Angel reconcile are they under any supernatural influence because neither they nor their actions appear to be that of the characters we know.
Joan the Vampire Slayer
thanks kean
MinwaraYana
Countess Von Drunkaton
That sounds so stupid. 🙁 They're not Buffy and Angel I know. I don't mind if Bangel meant to be together, but this is not the way. 🙁
AndrewCrossett
Satsu Otaku
I didn't before (at least in this respect), but in retrospect I kind of do now. I think it's high time for another one of his patented "in your face" interventions with Buffy.
Joan the Vampire Slayer
Xander is my hero now. Angel is lost to me.