Discussion of 8.33 "Twilight Part 2" - Released 3/04/10 (Dark Horse)

[Kean]

Im actually ashamed of that Q and A. People were being very aggressive!

Yeah it was a bit much, Allie has pulled out of them from now on.

Has anyone heard the Commentary for Dr. Horrible? The Q&A really reminded me of Joss's song on it.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgYdhm_q7lg"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgYdhm_q7lg[/ame]

 

[crimsonsai89]

Yeah it was a bit much, Allie has pulled out of them from now on.

Has anyone heard the Commentary for Dr. Horrible? The Q&A really reminded me of Joss's song on it.]

oMG It really does haha

---------- Post added at 12:08 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:04 AM ----------

Is Georges still gonna do Q and A's?

 

[Buffyverse Fan]

I'd be pissed if I were IDW...

Based on what we've seen and that interview, it seems like After the Fall was little more than a prologue to Buffy Season Eight. Angel, and Spike eventually are going to see huge character and plot development in Dark Horse's Buffy S8 & 9 even though IDW owns their stories more-or-less.

We'll be seeing Shanshu-related stuff, the fulfillment of Wolfram & Hart and TPTB prophecies, all in Dark Horse.

I don't care which publishing company prints the stuff as long as it's Joss' and it's good, but I definitely see where Bill Willingham's fury's coming from...

 

[Krj2501]

Yes- I think we should be worried on how Season 8 will end. We have good reasons to be. Joss has been known to kill off good characters for the sake of telling a story.

And even if Joss - royal screws this series up - I still think these are some wonder characters. Still I'm really hoping that he ends up doing justice to all of the characters.

 

[citiegal17]

Hey, I just started to realize something new to take from TOYL DW refers to Buffy as a princess not a queen. Everyone has interpreted Buffy to be the queen, but now I am started to think the real queen is Willow, espcially since she is the one that turned the potentionals into slayers, not Buffy. Also when DW is talking to Fray she says the most important men in Buffy's and Fray's lifes are lurks or vamps, and also implies that she should really needs to get over that. Since Angel is in a way a lurk, and the real villian in my opinon. She's is pretty much implying that Buffy really needs to get over Angel. I also don't think that Joss can really expect people to anyway see Angel as a hero after this and Angel season 5, he is a murder and nothing he does now can take that back. The damage is done so to speak, it wouldn't really seem right since Warren a villain was killed because he was an evil murder and Angel is at majorlly worse than he ever was. At least Warren admitted the fact he deserved to be punished to Willow, but I'm justifiying his actions either.

 

[Evilyn]

I really have to stop this whole year between posts, thing. Hah! I'm glad I did though, cuz I actually missed the whole Twilightgate thing and was SURPRISED to find out Angel was Twilight!

That being said, I enjoyed the hell outta this issue. And before I make up my mind on the whole TwiAngel thing I gotta see this thru. So, I'm waiting for the next couple of issues.

On the Bangel note, I don't think the ship is being mocked, as I've read suggested in numerous places. I think we just have take the wait and see approach. If Buffy and Angel are destined for something, then so be it. It just affirms, in my eyes, that they really do have that true, soulmate, kinda thing goin' on.

And that's all I got right now. ::bbat::

 

[Tranquillity]

RE the queries about upcoming comics: There will be no Buffy comics in June or July. June will have a Serenity comic about Wash. July will have no whedon comics. August will have a one shot about Riley Finn and then the series will comence it's concluding arc, written by Joss, in September finishing up in January 2011.

 

[AndrewCrossett]

RE the queries about upcoming comics: There will be no Buffy comics in June or July. June will have a Serenity comic about Wash. July will have no whedon comics. August will have a one shot about Riley Finn and then the series will comence it's concluding arc, written by Joss, in September finishing up in January 2011.

This means there will be a full four months (first week in May until the first week in September) without a regular season 8 issue. Right at the very height of the climax of the season.

I can't say that's even a remotely good thing, story-wise or sales-wise. But it probably couldn't be helped.

 

[crimsonsai89]

This means there will be a full four months (first week in May until the first week in September) without a regular season 8 issue. Right at the very height of the climax of the season.

I can't say that's even a remotely good thing, story-wise or sales-wise. But it probably couldn't be helped.

Those four months are gonna be hell! Hopefully it'll be clean releases from september to january and their wont be any other breaks.

 

[white avenger]

This means there will be a full four months (first week in May until the first week in September) without a regular season 8 issue. Right at the very height of the climax of the season.

I can't say that's even a remotely good thing, story-wise or sales-wise. But it probably couldn't be helped.

On the contrary, the current arc will almost certainly end in either a cliffhanger or a truly huge reveal, then the ensuing non-Buffy months will have the fans snapping and snarling like starving wolves. There might not be any actual riots with fans trying to get the first issue of the last arc, but there will, at least, be a VERY mad scramble, maybe not as big as the "Return Of Superman" arc was, but pretty darn close.

In a business sense, it's pure genius. As far as respect for the fans without whom the name "Buffy The Vampire Slayer" would never have been associated with anything but a mediocre horror/fantasy/comedy movie, it's downright inconsiderate.

 

[Kean]

I've finally gotten the the issue myself and after reading it my stance on this whole thing has changed, significantly. Reading the words myself and viewing the art creates a very different impression. I no longer think these characters are in jeopardy, actually I think we have been steadily building to this moment for quite some time. I'll be back later with an indepth post but I have to admit, I feel much more at ease having read it myself.

 

[Lyri]

I've finally gotten the the issue myself and after reading it my stance on this whole thing has changed, significantly. Reading the words myself and viewing the art creates a very different impression. I no longer think these characters are in jeopardy, actually I think we have been steadily building to this moment for quite some time. I'll be back later with an indepth post but I have to admit, I feel much more at ease having read it myself.

Oh, that's just great. You end up feeling better after reading it, whereas I felt worse. You have to explain this to me, seeing as how you've obviously got a different take on it than me, lol

 

[crimsonsai89]

okay off topic question.
How do I agree or like someones post?????

Lol sorry

 

[Lyri]

See the little scales at the top right of someone's post? Click that and a pop up box will appear, where you can type your message.

 

[AndrewCrossett]

I've finally gotten the the issue myself and after reading it my stance on this whole thing has changed, significantly. Reading the words myself and viewing the art creates a very different impression. I no longer think these characters are in jeopardy, actually I think we have been steadily building to this moment for quite some time. I'll be back later with an indepth post but I have to admit, I feel much more at ease having read it myself.

Even after I read it for myself, I do still think the characters are in jeopardy... at least my view of them. Even if Buffy accepts Angel's explanations for why he did what he did... it's still a terrible, terrible thing he's done, and I can't conceive how she could be capable of kissing him at this point... much less having sex with him, as Willow and next month's title seem to indicate she will.

Even under the very best, most favorable interpretation of these circumstances... how can she be doing this? What the hell is wrong with her? How can this be a sexually arousing situation for her? It's sick, frankly. If she's under her own free will, then I think much, much less of her for this. I'm not sure I'll be able to continue caring much for a person so heartless she'd forget about 200 dead girls, whom she was responsible for, because somebody tells her "Don't you want to be happy?" I'm pretty sure they wanted to be happy too.

And if she's not under her own free will, I fear for her for much different reasons. I'm not OK with having Buffy have sex against her free will, no matter how Joss might think it serves his story.

I'll keep reading, I'm sure we'll get an interesting story out of this. But I'm not sure if I'll be able to keep my love for Buffy as a character... and that's what really worries me. It may be intolerant of me, but as far as I'm concerned you only get to make so many stupid, selfish mistakes before I have to stop liking you.

And I have a feeling Buffy may be hearing something similar from her friends in the story.

 

[Tome]

I think peoples are waaaaaay too negative about this! I got to admit I had not read ONE BtVS S8 comic book until last week but I bought all of them this week-end, went through all except #33 and just got it today. I was kinda disappointed it was ONLY Angel =P Anyway it does seems strange how Angel is talking about this, but it's clearly stated more will be explained. So i'm not worried at all. I was just watching 'Superstar' earlier and remembered how I was like 'what the hell is going on' when I first saw that episode. We just have to wait and see how Joss explain everything!

But it does show peoples are into it when there is so many reactions mostly because Buffy kissed Angel :lmao::lmao:

Oh and the comics are pretty cool. I didn't really like AtF story, but as for BtVS S8 aside from some issues that were kinda boring(during Predators and Preys mostly), it was good. I didn't really like Xander much at the end of the tv series, but he's awesome in the comics! Not enough Giles though. Willow and Faith are ok, Andrew still the same : king : Dawn, meh... I don't like the new relationship with Xan. I have to be honest and say there wasn't really any new slayer that stood out for me or that I liked as her own character. Buffy is still herself haha =P

As for the villains, well... It started good I thought, but Warren and Amy sounds like comic relief now... I don't know but after what happened with Warren storyline in s6, I just can't see him in a scene and not expect it to be serious(even though his no skin look is kinda hilarious lol). With the Twilight reveal, I hope it won't turn Angel into comic relief too, and that we'll get some serious good against evil(!) soon!

WHERE'S SPIKE???

 

[Krj2501]

Okay - first it's quite clear that Both (Buffy & Angel) having sex - because it's something that they both want, not only because of "their glowing".

Some people on this site see - things thru Xander's or some other character's eyes - when it comes to Buffy's and Angel's feeling about each other. Which is actually the wrong way to look at their relationship. I've said this before but the close person, that full gets Buffy & Angel's relationship outside of Buffy & Angel themselves - is Spike.

And Spike basically sums up the core of their relationship in "Lover's Walk", when he says the following. "Love's not brains, Children. It's Blood screaming to work it's will. You'll fight, and you'll shag, each other til it makes you quiver. But you'll never be just friends".

What Spike is referring to in that statement is very intense passion, that doesn't fit with or any sane logical reasoning. Which is what we see at the end in Issue #33 & likely in Issue #34 as well.

Then I'm also reminded of Cordelia's Statement to Doyle about Buffy's and Angel's relationship in Angel Season 1 episode IWRY. "They have the forbidden love, of all time. They argue, fuss, and fight -- that's business as usual. But if they get groiny with one another, then the world as we know it -- falls apart".

 

[AndrewCrossett]

Okay - first it's quite clear that Both (Buffy & Angel) having sex - because it's something that they both want, not only because of "their glowing".

I think that's very far from clear, actually. And if it is the case, then it would be wrong of Buffy to want that under these circumstances, and far more wrong to act on that desire.

What about 200 dead Slayers does she find sexy?

Then I'm also reminded of Cordelia's Statement to Doyle about Buffy's and Angel's relationship in Angel Season 1 episode IWRY. "They have the forbidden love, of all time. They argue, fuss, and fight -- that's business as usual. But if they get groiny with one another, then the world as we know it -- falls apart".

That is a pretty interesting quote in this context.

 

[Krj2501]

The reason - I used the quote from Cordelia - is because of the covers we've seen for issue #35.

Which suggests that there's going to be a fall-out for Buffy among the Scoobies, because of her actions with Angel.

I think that's very far from clear, actually. And if it is the case, then it would be wrong of Buffy to want that under these circumstances, and far more wrong to act on that desire.

What about 200 dead Slayers does she find sexy?

Again - your missing the point. Your using sane rational logic to attempt to explain what we saw at the end of Issue #33 & suppose to happen in Issue #34 - when there isn't any. It's not about logic, it's about pure raw passion.

It's quite possible that in their current physical states (of increased physical abilities & invulnerability) has also enhanced their emotions or their passion. Add to that given the fact that they've spend years of having to deny their passion for each others. And what you end up with - is and explosion of said passions.

Btw - One realistic explanation for their "Mystical glowing" may be because their souls sensing each other, now that they are even more Superpowered than ever before. Note - that in the TV series - Buffy has stated many times that she was able to "feel" when Angel was near. And that sense had nothing to do with her slayer sense, as it was usually much more accurate than her normal vamp detecting sense.

 

[Stakesteak]

In my opinion, Krj2501, you might be taking the Spike and Cordelia quotes a little too literally. While I believe that Spike was dead-on when he said that Angel and Buffy could never just be friends, his reasons why reflected more of his own personality than anything else. Don't forget that when Spike said that he was a soulless monster who's own view of love was a very sick and twisted interpretation that was closer to a combination of chaos and lust. Spike went by his blood for everything he did so I consider his statement for unique to his own view of love than anything else. After all, throughout most of season 6 Spike demonstrated pretty effectively that he didn't really understand love.

As for Cordy, you bring up an interesting point, though I always considered that quote to be more of a witty and overly-simplified synopsis of Buffy and Angel's relationship in order to quickly fill Doyle in on the basics of their years-long relationship and I'm not sure that I'd associate it with their current situation; I'll have to re-watch that episode though.

As for my own opinion of these events; I believe that just because Buffy might be in love with Angel doesn't mean that she could overlook all the death and destruction he has caused and melt into his arms. If there's no supernatural force compelling her actions, she basically just established herself as a terrible human being who is willing to abandon all of her beliefs, her comrades in arms, and her closest friends, all for her own selfish wants. The Angel she fell in love with would not do this either and I don't believe that she'd still be in love with Angel if he became such a cold-hearted ends-justify-the-means person. Just because he's Angel shouldn't mean that he can do anything, no matter how horrible, and she'll still fall into his arms.