Episode Discussion Discussion of 8.36 "Last Gleaming Part 1" - Released 9/1/10 (Dark Horse)

[Primal Slayer]

Anya enjoyed being a vegence demon the 1st time around when all she had was vegence/hatred for men in her heart. She couldnt handle it the 2nd time around.

 

[Icarium]

Anya enjoyed being a vegence demon the 1st time around when all she had was vegence/hatred for men in her heart. She couldnt handle it the 2nd time around.

So? She still spent more than a millennium doing something she loved. When a victim of hers finally comes back to give her a taste of her own medicine he gets killed and we are expected to sympathize with Anya because being left at the altar is so much worse than ruining the life of thousands of people apparently...

 

[VampireJason]

Well I don't agree with most of you people. But I'm done defending Angel, if you want to be a bitter Angel/Twilight hater and let that ruin the series for you, go ahead. I get change anyone's opinions no matter how much I disagree. And if you hate the way Joss runs the series why do you still like it? Not trying to be rude, just saying.

 

[Connor Holtz]

Well I don't agree with most of you people. But I'm done defending Angel, if you want to be a bitter Angel/Twilight hater and let that ruin the series for you, go ahead. I get change anyone's opinions no matter how much I disagree. And if you hate the way Joss runs the series why do you still like it? Not trying to be rude, just saying.

It's not being bitter if you hate turning one of the greatest heroes in the 'verse into a mass murdering Big Bad. It really isn't. As far as creative direction? We have the right to criticize his direction without hating the series. At the end of the day, I'm more of an IDW ANGEL comics fan anyway.

 

[AndrewCrossett]

There is a difference between hating what Angel has done, and hating the story. I consider it a good story about someone who did a bad thing. Angel is messed up, and Buffy is pretty messed up too, and that's part of the story.

I don't think we were ever meant to think that killing 200 Slayers was a wonderful thing for Angel to do, and we were supposed to give him a pat on the head and a cookie.

 

[Tome]

Well I don't agree with most of you people. But I'm done defending Angel, if you want to be a bitter Angel/Twilight hater and let that ruin the series for you, go ahead. I get change anyone's opinions no matter how much I disagree. And if you hate the way Joss runs the series why do you still like it? Not trying to be rude, just saying.

I don't particularily like the Twilight/Angel thing... But I agree, it's sad if it stop peoples from enjoying the comics! Not that I think the latest issues have been amazing, but let's wait till the story is over to actually make a judgment 😀

 

[VampireJason]

I found things didn't actually pick up in Season Eight until recently.

The long Way home: This was just boring. I hated to see Warren and Amy back, two characters I hated the most, and that kiss between Buffy and Xander in which his head popped off was beyond disturbing

No future for you Not a die-hard fan of but it was progressively better than the first arc

Wolves at the Gate Was completely irrelevant to the whole story, I still don't know what was the point of that, but I read it nonetheless.

Time of Your Life Was very good, except for the Fray future. It's like I couldn't understand what they were saying

Predators and Prey A collection of random stories, was pretty good. This is when it really started to get interesting, and I think Kennedy/Satsu could be a good potential couple based on what I saw.

Retreat Oz! The story was good but Oz did not sound or look like Seth Green one bit. The Oz appearance was a major disappointment. But there were good points to it

Twilight Okay it was a curve ball for me, this is Angel we're talking about here. But after thinking about it in Whedon terms, it did kinda make sense. We'll have to wait 'till Last Gleaming to make judgment.

The Bangel Prophecy:The vampire with a soul shall kill several innocent girls wearing tights and a wrestler's mask and then will ascend and have sex with the slayer in Zero Gravity, Space Suit up!

Ultimately I enjoy IDW's Angel a thousand times better.

 

[ElmoHasAGun]

Well aside from Buffy and Angel's OOCness (hopefully due to the Twilight influence) this issue hit the freakin' nail on the head.

Spike was, of course awesome, his one agenda seems to be save the world (snark involved cause it comes with the sizeable and yummy package) his flashback parts were fantastic. Angel having the guts to question Spike's motives (he has a ship dude... since when can you not trust a guy with a big yellow ship!?) is just stupid for a guy who has spent a season killing innocents because he wanted to keep the body count low. And yet Buffy is still swooning over him and saying the day she caused a major apocalypse the 'bestest day of her life' I pray that Joss is out there somewhere laughing his head off as we wonder if he has really lost his marbles and is trying to make it seem as though Angel has done something heroic and good.

Warren and Amy making out is gross, but kinda admirable. Amy clearly puts little stock into looks and cares more about his psycho personality, so similar to her own.

Faith and Willow had the grand count of one line each and are still the greatest characters in this issue.

I don't have a printer here so I can't scan the panel I'm talking about but the one after she says outgoing... did she just run straight through that demon? Holy cheese.

 

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

Firstly, it feels like forever since I've logged on! I'm been super busy with my new job and writing for my graduate school applications. I missed you all! I haven't looked through the whole thread yet, so I apologize if I ask something that's already been addressed.

My thoughts might be a bit unorganized because I wrote this when I was reading the issue. For one, I really liked the first part of the issue, with Angel talking to the dog. The dialouge felt really authentic, and it was nice to get a glimpe into Angel's head and start to slightly understand why he chose to become Twilight.

Like we never lost the war.

I'm confused about this; is Angel insinuating that he's given up? Perhaps this is why he chose to become Twilight. I really like the imagery of a meteror destroying the Hollywood sign. Nice.

I know. Even when things get the most complicated, you remain simple. That's part of why you were chosen.

I really, really like this line. Joss writes Angel so well. He clearly loves this character, and know's him better than anyone, and that's so true, isn't it? Angel is complicated because he's so simple. I often have a hard time understanding or reconciling the decisions he makes, and it's because I realize now that because for him, it's either th "right" thing to do or it's the "wrong" thing to do. There is no middle ground. No gray area. I don't doubt that he thought he was doing the right thing by becomin Twilight, but what Angel doesn't understand is that it's never as simple as "doing the right thing." Not in the Buffyverse. You can't end evil by causing it. The Universe chose Angel because he is a pawn who will go along with whatever someone tells him if they tell him it's "the right thing to do." I know it sounds harsh, but I don't know how else to interpret this.

So, Angel has been rewarded by the Universe? For what? For becoming Twilight, or was this flashbak supposed to take place before that?

Spike's ship with the bugs running it is just...bizarre. Is Joss on something or what? And why are they calling him "your majesty"?! wtf?

Angel's true destiny is to take Buffy out of her world? Huh? To create a world where in which they can inhabit together and make a new race, I get it...

So Spike knew who Angel was on the computer screen because he recognized his...voice? I'm confused.

Angel, I don't trust you. But you have my heart, so what can I do.

I have a huge issue with this line, not to mention the fact that Buffy is grinning like a deranged schoolgirl while delivering it. Jeanty's sure not at his best in this issue. What she's saying basically is that it doesn't matter if she trusts him because she loves him and she can't help it. It's like no matter what he does she's still madly swooning over him. It doesn't make sense.

Angel's distrust of Spike seems in character, but Buffy's non-chalant attitude towards Spike's arrival doesn't. Spike was a very close friend of hers, and she doesn't seem to give a damn that he's back, except for the fact that he might be "useful."

Is that all you want from him?
That's beneath you, baby.

Oh, gag me. Buffy's retort is dead on; it's like she's saying, "you're bette than that, shame on you!" 🙂 When is Angel going to get over his petty little jealousy regarding Spike? He has nothing on Spike anymore. Buffy is clearly madly in love with Angel, and Spike is clearly not on her radar. It was always my theory that Angel resented Spike because he could make love to Buffy and he couldn't. But that's clearly not the case anymore, so why the passive agressive comment? God, I hate Angel.

Buffy is distrubingly professional with Spike. Where's the hug? No, "Hey, you're alive! How?" or anything. Nothing. All business. Spike is his usual snarky self, but Buffy is talking to him like he's her servant - not a trusted friend and ally he once was to her.

The Seed of Wonder? *snork* Really? I swear, Joss is on something. That's just...lame.

But the most shocking thing about this issue is on the first page

Spike - former vampire, former lover...

Wtf? Spike is no longer a vampire? Since when? And if he is human, why would Joss do that?! That would be the lamest thing EVER.

How does everyone else feel about the possibilty of Spike being human?

 

[AndrewCrossett]

Scott Allie said that "former vampire" thing was a mistake. I'm assuming he's still a vampire.

I don't trust the dog. 😡

 

[sosa lola]

Buffy is distrubingly professional with Spike. Where's the hug? No, "Hey, you're alive! How?" or anything. Nothing. All business. Spike is his usual snarky self, but Buffy is talking to him like he's her servant - not a trusted friend and ally he once was to her.

I'm not sure if you read my review, here's the Spuffy part of it 🙂


Buffy/Spike:

When Buffy goes into the ship, it's all about business. I'm sensing some hurt and anger on her part. Spike had come back years ago and never tried to contact her, she doesn't understand why, it shows in the way she glares at him, the way she grabs his shoulder and roughly turns him around. With a sarcastic raise of her eyebrow, she thanks him for saving their lives, and then talks about not contacting him because she was busy "“which can probably be a shot at him not contacting her because he was busy. She cuts him off when he wants to say you're welcome because she is obviously mad at him. She reminds him that they've got an apocalypse to take care of, doesn't wanna hear him joke or snark or use dirty British words she doesn't understand.

On the other hand, Spike is also hurt and angry "“not to mention disappointed at her- for having magical, space sex with Angel. He can't help but throw cheap remarks at her, and she calls him on it "Snark", and then Spike tells her that she can't trust Angel. I think at the same time, Spike also feels betrayed, hurt and let down by Angel. Seems all his idols "“if you'd call Angel one- sank so low.

Spike later pulls himself together and gets down to business, reminding Buffy of what she'd done, what she'd started, what her irresponsible actions caused. Buffy obviously looks ashamed, hugging herself, unable to look him in the eyes. Spike lays it all on her, doesn't choose his words carefully, so upset with her, and it all hurts Buffy: the damage she caused, Spike's disappointment in her, her friends' fear and wary. Her expression as she looks away from Spike, filled with sorrow and guilt, her eyes as she looks back at him: shocked, upset, teary. Guilt is tearing her apart.

Buffy is back. And Spike brought her back.

 

[Kean]

I don't trust the dog. 😡

Neither do I. He actually reminds me of Skip.

 

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

I'm not sure if you read my review, here's the Spuffy part of it 🙂


Buffy/Spike:

When Buffy goes into the ship, it's all about business. I'm sensing some hurt and anger on her part. Spike had come back years ago and never tried to contact her, she doesn't understand why, it shows in the way she glares at him, the way she grabs his shoulder and roughly turns him around. With a sarcastic raise of her eyebrow, she thanks him for saving their lives, and then talks about not contacting him because she was busy "“which can probably be a shot at him not contacting her because he was busy. She cuts him off when he wants to say you're welcome because she is obviously mad at him. She reminds him that they've got an apocalypse to take care of, doesn't wanna hear him joke or snark or use dirty British words she doesn't understand.

On the other hand, Spike is also hurt and angry "“not to mention disappointed at her- for having magical, space sex with Angel. He can't help but throw cheap remarks at her, and she calls him on it "Snark", and then Spike tells her that she can't trust Angel. I think at the same time, Spike also feels betrayed, hurt and let down by Angel. Seems all his idols "“if you'd call Angel one- sank so low.

Spike later pulls himself together and gets down to business, reminding Buffy of what she'd done, what she'd started, what her irresponsible actions caused. Buffy obviously looks ashamed, hugging herself, unable to look him in the eyes. Spike lays it all on her, doesn't choose his words carefully, so upset with her, and it all hurts Buffy: the damage she caused, Spike's disappointment in her, her friends' fear and wary. Her expression as she looks away from Spike, filled with sorrow and guilt, her eyes as she looks back at him: shocked, upset, teary. Guilt is tearing her apart.

Buffy is back. And Spike brought her back.

Wow, this is a really interesting way of interpreting this issue. Perhaps I read it wrong. I get what you're saying, and I want to believe it's the case, but it feels to me like Joss is dismissing Spike and Buffy's relationship. I didn't sense that Buffy was mad - just indifferent. Maybe I'll read it again with this interpretation...

 

[sosa lola]

Wow, this is a really interesting way of interpreting this issue. Perhaps I read it wrong. I get what you're saying, and I want to believe it's the case, but it feels to me like Joss is dismissing Spike and Buffy's relationship. I didn't sense that Buffy was mad - just indifferent. Maybe I'll read it again with this interpretation...

I didn't see any indifference, surprised anyone would think that. Just look at how she glares at him, how she grabs his shoulder -clear anger in there.

 

[The Ferg]

So I flipped to that last page and was just thinking: "Holy crap, The Master!" But then I saw Jo Chen's painting of "The Master" and Buffy, and (if that actually is The Master) the painting looks nothing like the master. To much bat and not enough human... idk.

 

[white avenger]

If my issue doesn't get here soon, I'm going to send TFAW a letter bomb.

Special Delivery.

 

[Prophecy]

I'm not buying their reasoning for Angel/Twilight at all. I think it's way too much of a stretch just to get Angel to turn out to be the masked bad guy and then try and save his character by saying "Wait Twilight's not bad!" it's just too much of a stretch to work properly and I'm not liking where this is heading now.

It was good to see Spike back though, the bugs were stupid but it was great to see him back.

 

[white avenger]

I FINALLY GOT THE D**N THING!!! Now:

I have to say that I have absolutely nothing to say about it except that I am totally disappointed, and not just because of my Spike colored glasses. This issue is obviously the lead in to Joss' final arc, so hopefully there will FINALLY be some sort of explanation as to what is really going on in Issue 37. At least I hope so.

And I will also say this. Angel saying that he doesn't trust Spike because he shows up at just the right moment with just what is needed (the ship, to evacuate everyone) sounds hypocritical, coming from someone who did exactly the same thing at the end of Season 7.

 

[nmcil12]

I FINALLY GOT THE D**N THING!!! Now:

I have to say that I have absolutely nothing to say about it except that I am totally disappointed, and not just because of my Spike colored glasses. This issue is obviously the lead in to Joss' final arc, so hopefully there will FINALLY be some sort of explanation as to what is really going on in Issue 37. At least I hope so.

And I will also say this. Angel saying that he doesn't trust Spike because he shows up at just the right moment with just what is needed (the ship, to evacuate everyone) sounds hypocritical, coming from someone who did exactly the same thing at the end of Season 7.

You are so right - I had not seen it in this before now -

 

[Angelic Slayer]

Okay so I finally, *finally* got my issue and read it today and this was SO worth the wait! Introducing Spike is like a breath of fresh air; I can't wait to read more about him in #38. The banter between he and Buffy was really well written out (true to character). And only Spike would be given a ship crewed by bugs-- how freaky!

The Buffy/Angel moment at the beginning was cute, it was nice to see their reuinion so far hasn't been ruined with Spike's return. I like that the two of them aren't going to be the couple that's constantly by each other's side either-- they've already done that and been there. It's nice to see that progression in their relationship.

And was it just me or was the dialouge freakishly in tune with the characters this issue? Loved it! 😀