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Episode Discussion Discussion of 8.38 "Last Gleaming Part 3" - Released 11/3/10 (Dark Horse)

VisionGirl

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Ah, I see what you're saying. Yeah, I have no idea, except that the thrall or whatever has worn off & it appears that he has been forgiven. Guess we'll just have to wait and see.

---------- Post added at 04:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:20 PM ----------

See what I'm finding the really hard part to decipher is what, exactly, is gona be the betrayal? I mean there is good and bad for both breaking and protecting The Seed. Going either way is hardly going to be betrayal worthy. Willow is definitely not telling us everything about The Seed. She wants to protect it in a way that is very different from a vested interest in the state of humanity but in what she could personally lose.

I really think it is gona be Xander. All season he has been shown to be Buffy's closest friend and confidante. He has backed her up no matter what all season, I think at this point, it has to be him. Most importantly, he has a reason now: Dawn. He has lost every girl he has cared deeply for to magic and the fight, if he breaks the Seed he ensures that magic can't hurt Dawn in the future.

The consequences on Buffy though...
And Giles is gone, presumably to find this totem he's been searching for, a "weapon to fight a god". So I think he's in the running, too.

I still think that Dawn is not completely out of the running for dying. She's not on Jeanty's #40 cover.
 

Kean

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Jeanty cover of 40:

http://www.whedon.info/IMG/jpg/buffy40b.jpg

In #38, Angel's possessed. He's all green eyes and bad skin when he's getting beaten up by Miss Kitty Twilight (borrowing a nickname from a Whedonesque user, hehe). Switch to Buffy and Spike in the Hellmouth, and his eyes are still red-rimmed and he brutally smashes Buffy into the wall. Clearly, there's something wrong. Beyond wrong, really. Not sure what's up with #39 yet besides a healthy dose of Bangel-fighting (interesting contrast to #34), but suddenly on the cover of #40 Angel's back looking like part of the gang, not the villain. What's up with that?
Georges has said recently that his cover for 40 is a mislead. However, in saying that Angel does have his won title for S9 so we know he is gona survive his possession of Twilight so him being on the cover isn't really that surprising.

Although Jeantry's comment, that it is the last time all of the characters on his 40 cover will be together, is very intriguing.
 

Mumrik

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Honestly, I've held out long enough but I think I'm in the "I'm so over this" boat now. I still fairly like this season but it's gone on too long and I think I'd be much more invested in the story had I come in towards the end and not halfway through. Now I just want it over with. It's lost its appeal.

Does anyone else see Willow's and Angel's possession by The Seed and Twilight, respectively, as a huge cop out? I'm going to be so mad if the huge betrayal is going to turn out to be one of them because it's not really them and leaves no impact at all. Come on. I hope it's Xander, just for the sake of storytelling.

I liked that it explained the Master's bones from seasons 1 and 2, though.

Also, on a sideline. Have vamped out vamps always have had a different font than usually? Or is this supposed to indicate that Spike, too, is possessed? Because I will jump out of my window if he is. Too much is too much.

Georges has said recently that his cover for 40 is a mislead. However, in saying that Angel does have his won title for S9 so we know he is gona survive his possession of Twilight so him being on the cover isn't really that surprising.

Although Jeantry's comment, that it is the last time all of the characters on his 40 cover will be together, is very intriguing.
Well, he really didn't think that through, did he? If you're doing a misleading cover, why SAY that it's a mislead? I mean, where's the logic in that?
 

Kean

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Honestly, I've held out long enough but I think I'm in the "I'm so over this" boat now. I still fairly like this season but it's gone on too long and I think I'd be much more invested in the story had I come in towards the end and not halfway through. Now I just want it over with. It's lost its appeal.

Does anyone else see Willow's and Angel's possession by The Seed and Twilight, respectively, as a huge cop out? I'm going to be so mad if the huge betrayal is going to turn out to be one of them because it's not really them and leaves no impact at all. Come on. I hope it's Xander, just for the sake of storytelling.

I liked that it explained the Master's bones from seasons 1 and 2, though.

Also, on a sideline. Have vamped out vamps always have had a different font than usually? Or is this supposed to indicate that Spike, too, is possessed? Because I will jump out of my window if he is. Too much is too much.



Well, he really didn't think that through, did he? If you're doing a misleading cover, why SAY that it's a mislead? I mean, where's the logic in that?
I know lol He's useless when fans put him under pressure, he just caves! He's such a nice guy lol

I won't lie, I a huge part of me was utterly relieved that Angel was being possessed because it saves him. But the other part was, "ah really? Haven't we done this once or thrice"?

I'm just hoping we get something more substantial from next season.
 

prophecygrrl

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Georges has said recently that his cover for 40 is a mislead. However, in saying that Angel does have his won title for S9 so we know he is gona survive his possession of Twilight so him being on the cover isn't really that surprising.

Although Jeantry's comment, that it is the last time all of the characters on his 40 cover will be together, is very intriguing.
Are you talking about Jeanty's Q&A on SA? If so, what he had to say about the cover of #40 was all over the place. Sometimes I wish Dark Horse wouldn't let him talk. I've heard he's very nice in real life so I really don't want to bash him, but jeez, the guy is very unclear and kind of a panderer when it comes to dealing with fandom. One minute he is hardcore Bangel, the next he is much, much more Spuffy-friendly, one minute Dawn isn't on the cover, the next he insists that she is. Things I do not understand.

I'm not confused as to why Angel's on the cover. It's more how he's portrayed...I doubt this whole Twilight-possession thing is resolved in just one issue. That and if the cover of #40 is truly a mislead, why is the fact that Spike is missing so important? Jeanty implies that it is in the Q&A.
 

Mumrik

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I know lol He's useless when fans put him under pressure, he just caves! He's such a nice guy lol

I won't lie, I a huge part of me was utterly relieved that Angel was being possessed because it saves him. But the other part was, "ah really? Haven't we done this once or thrice"?

I'm just hoping we get something more substantial from next season.
Seriously, Angel has so many personalities rattling about in that head of his, you could make a whole sit-com, starring just him. It would be really entertaining, though. (sw)

I think the thing that is really going to save next season is that it's going to run (almost?) weekly. Fans won't have less time to pick apart and overanalyze every little bit that way.
 

Kean

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Are you talking about Jeanty's Q&A on SA? If so, what he had to say about the cover of #40 was all over the place. Sometimes I wish Dark Horse wouldn't let him talk. I've heard he's very nice in real life so I really don't want to bash him, but jeez, the guy is very unclear and kind of a panderer when it comes to dealing with fandom. One minute he is hardcore Bangel, the next he is much, much more Spuffy-friendly, one minute Dawn isn't on the cover, the next he insists that she is. Things I do not understand.

I'm not confused as to why Angel's on the cover. It's more how he's portrayed...I doubt this whole Twilight-possession thing is resolved in just one issue. That and if the cover of #40 is truly a mislead, why is the fact that Spike is missing so important? Jeanty implies that it is in the Q&A.
I've never met the man but several of my friends have and they insist he is and absolute sweetheart. :)

Well, in fairness to the guy, when he speaks in favour of one ship the other side comes out complaining that they are being left behind. I think he is just trying to cater to us all.

Actually, I don't expect Twilight to continue past this next issue. One way or another it will be resolved. How satisfying a resolve that will be remains to be seen.

In regards Dawn, I can't remember which site I read this on but someone suggested that she will be on the official cover but they left her out to amp up the mislead that she was going to die in this issue. I'm assuming that Jeantry just forgot about that. I'm sure it's hard to keep track of all of this.

Did he say it was important that Spike was missing? I don't remember that. I don't really think it matters one way or another. He has been confirmed for S9, so we know he survives.
 
S
SpaceLord
Hmm I'm not sure any of the characters suvived the assassination of their characters in S8

VisionGirl

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I liked that it explained the Master's bones from seasons 1 and 2, though.
How specifically did it explain the Master's bones? I think I missed that.

Also, on a sideline. Have vamped out vamps always have had a different font than usually? Or is this supposed to indicate that Spike, too, is possessed? Because I will jump out of my window if he is. Too much is too much.
In my re-read, I noticed the different font when Harmony was vamped, so yeah, I don't think Spike is possessed.
 

prophecygrrl

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Did he say it was important that Spike was missing? I don't remember that. I don't really think it matters one way or another. He has been confirmed for S9, so we know he survives.
Not explicitly, but:

19. kdeb: I know that comics covers can be misleading, but does Spike's absence from your cover for #40 mean anything? You've told the Buffy/Angel fans they should be very afraid. Should the Spike/Buffy fans be afraid too?

Georges: All I'll say is that Spike is missing.
28. AndrewCrossett: In your cover to #40, are the rising sun and the Sunnydale sign meant to represent the missing Dawn and Spike?

Georges: Dawn's there, she's the one above Willow. The Spike thing is another issue.
And if this Twilight business really is all wrapped up in just one issue, dang. I'm scared. Four years of build up, this must be huge. I'd been taking everything all the DH people have been saying pretty lightly..."devastating", "ill", "loss", I thought they might even be misleads. But if they're really that confident about the finale...I repeat. I'm scared.
 

Mumrik

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How specifically did it explain the Master's bones? I think I missed that.
Well, it doesn't go outright and say it, it's more drawn from context.

The scene goes like this:
Master: Oh, death is nothing to the Seed. It restored me when Twilight chose Angelus... I sort of thought he'd show...
Spike: Oh, he'll be around later to take credit for everything, don't you fret.
Giles: Before Twilight, I hadn't thought the Seed was real, much less under our noses...
Willow: So it was just hiding behind the hellmouth, pulling the Master's strings all those years--all those lives--without him knowing?
Master: I wouldn't word it exactly like that...

The way I read this, especially Willow's statement about the Seed pulling the Master's strings is, he couldn't die-die, just die for the moment until the Seed needs him again, as his champion if you will. Maybe it needed something of his left in order to be able to restore him when the time came, explaining why he left his bones behind.
Oh, I actually missed one, too. Apparently, the Seed got him stuck in vamp-mode, heh.

Buffy: That expöains the weird face I can't wait to hit again...
Master: My face?
Xander: I get it. Little too much time around his preciousssss...
 

LyteHouse

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Honestly, if we all didn't live in different corners of the planet I would be organising a Season-8-is-over-thank-God-and-lets-drink party.

Seriously.

There isn't enough whisky in the world to make me forget Season 8.

Still, at least there's always a few laugh-out-load moments in every issue:

Giles: It seems I've missed a great deal....
Pissed myself for about 20 minutes after reading that. :D



And we finally know what that censored cover of 39 looks like:


 

VisionGirl

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Honestly, I've held out long enough but I think I'm in the "I'm so over this" boat now. I still fairly like this season but it's gone on too long and I think I'd be much more invested in the story had I come in towards the end and not halfway through. Now I just want it over with. It's lost its appeal.
I was thinking about the couple of people who have made this comment, and I think if I were in your shoes, I'd probably feel the same way. Since I just started reading the comics this past July, it's definitely fresher to me (& probably more interesting) because I haven't had to follow it as long. Maybe that's why I like it better than some people.

But I have to say that it's taken several re-reads for me to completely comprehend everything that's going on. Maybe that's because comics aren't usually a genre I read (well, not since reading my dad's XMen issues when I was a kid :D), but I also think that someone made a valid point that the writers are making the fans work too hard to figure out what's going on. I mean, I understand not dumbing things down, making it intellectually stimulating and all that- but the TV series didn't slack in that area overall (yeah, maybe some individual episodes), & we could definitely follow all the plot developments.

As a side note, I'd like to read the Angel comics in order to prepare for season 9 (looks like I'll have plenty of time for that LOL) since it looks like even some of the previously considered non-canon stuff may be incorporated into the storyline, but there are so damn many issues! It's daunting! And I can't afford it, and my local library only carries a couple of issues! I'm going to wait for the ATF premiere edition to come out & see if the library has it or I can get it on an interlibrary loan. Anyway, all that to say that maybe I'm feeling about the Angel comics what some people feel about season 8.
 

VisionGirl

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OK, I'm reading an interview with Georges Jeanty on another forum that shall remained nameless, and he states that the Xander/Dawn relationship "will go on". So, Dawn is not our major fatality?

But there seems to be a question about Buffy's soul. The Master says "A soulless shell--no matter what you might think of it. And THIS is what you bring for protection?". Georges says that it's in reference to Buffy- that the Master killed her & that there's a question about whether or not she has a soul nowadays. Say what?!
 

white avenger

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But there seems to be a question about Buffy's soul. The Master says "A soulless shell--no matter what you might think of it. And THIS is what you bring for protection?". Georges says that it's in reference to Buffy- that the Master killed her & that there's a question about whether or not she has a soul nowadays. Say what?!

Now THAT would be a really great ending for the season, especially if both Angel and Spike tell her that they could never love a soulless "thing." Then Season 9 could have Buffy traveling to Africa to get her soul back. Then, while she's there, she meets the REAL love of her life, Tarzan, who's all heartbroken and dejected because Jane ran off with the Phantom...
 
S
Spikefan31
lol lol lol lol lol etc :D
S
SpaceLord
Sounds like a better story than the one we have in S8 :)
Kean
Kean
Yeah, that's the same as poteen.

prophecygrrl

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But there seems to be a question about Buffy's soul. The Master says "A soulless shell--no matter what you might think of it. And THIS is what you bring for protection?". Georges says that it's in reference to Buffy- that the Master killed her & that there's a question about whether or not she has a soul nowadays. Say what?!
I was really surprised by the soul comment too! I haven't seen anyone speculating that she'd lost her soul. I personally think she's very OOC and that this might even be intentional, but I never thought it'd be because she's soulless.

If she is, I will be very pissed off. Discounting the fact that I adore her (and a soulless Buffy makes me sad :(), the show fiddles around SO much with souls that it's starting to get old. Especially since they never quite clear up the value of a soul in the first place. There's still double standards all around the Buffyverse with Spike and Angel, for God's sake.
 

Buffyverse Fan

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I was really surprised by the soul comment too! I haven't seen anyone speculating that she'd lost her soul. I personally think she's very OOC and that this might even be intentional, but I never thought it'd be because she's soulless.

If she is, I will be very pissed off. Discounting the fact that I adore her (and a soulless Buffy makes me sad :(), the show fiddles around SO much with souls that it's starting to get old. Especially since they never quite clear up the value of a soul in the first place. There's still double standards all around the Buffyverse with Spike and Angel, for God's sake.
It's funny, the fact that in the IDW series, Spike is currently dealing with soul-issues (roughly timed 1-2 years prior to BS8), so I guess I mistakenly assumed the Master was talking about Spike.

Right now in IDW, the Lady Watcher & her Hoverbot are using a Blue Devil to "cleanse" Spike's soul, because it is apparently "sick." And shortly thereafter, Drusilla and her new boyfriend are planning to ambush Spike since he allegedly stole his soul from Dru's new beau...
 
S
SpaceLord
you really shouldn't write stuff like that....Joss might think it's a great story :P

Kean

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It's funny, the fact that in the IDW series, Spike is currently dealing with soul-issues (roughly timed 1-2 years prior to BS8), so I guess I mistakenly assumed the Master was talking about Spike.

Right now in IDW, the Lady Watcher & her Hoverbot are using a Blue Devil to "cleanse" Spike's soul, because it is apparently "sick." And shortly thereafter, Drusilla and her new boyfriend are planning to ambush Spike since he allegedly stole his soul from Dru's new beau...
You know what would be really cool? If Joss didn't use souls, possession or betrayal of a loved one as major plot points in any story he ever tells ever again.
 
C
citiegal17
[No message]
P
prophecygrrl
Hehe. Or maybe just not so clumsily! :p
Tranquillity
Tranquillity
[No message]

prophecygrrl

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It's funny, the fact that in the IDW series, Spike is currently dealing with soul-issues (roughly timed 1-2 years prior to BS8), so I guess I mistakenly assumed the Master was talking about Spike.

Right now in IDW, the Lady Watcher & her Hoverbot are using a Blue Devil to "cleanse" Spike's soul, because it is apparently "sick." And shortly thereafter, Drusilla and her new boyfriend are planning to ambush Spike since he allegedly stole his soul from Dru's new beau...
In the comics, I thought the Master was talking about the "soulless" Twilight universe. As I've said before, Jeanty makes me confused. :confused:

But yes, I thought of the Spike thing too! I haven't read all of IDW's comics yet, but I've been caught up on what's been going on with Spike. And considering that the new Spike series might be canon (Lynch is writing and I hear plotting with Joss?), a questionably ensouled Spike could be a possibility. I doubt it though...I think #38 made it clear that this story is wrapping up with Twangel/Angel and Buffy, not Spike.
 
Tranquillity
Tranquillity
I think you are right about the souless universe
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