Episode Discussion Discussion of 8.38 "Last Gleaming Part 3" - Released 11/3/10 (Dark Horse)

[Buffyverse Fan]

SpaceLord agrees: you really shouldn't write stuff like that....Joss might think it's a great story 😛

lol, that wasn't a joke, that's seriously what's going on with Spike as of October 2010 😀

In the comics, I thought the Master was talking about the "soulless" Twilight universe. As I've said before, Jeanty makes me confused. 😕

But yes, I thought of the Spike thing too! I haven't read all of IDW's comics yet, but I've been caught up on what's been going on with Spike. And considering that the new Spike series might be canon (Lynch is writing and I hear plotting with Joss?), a questionably ensouled Spike could be a possibility. I doubt it though...I think #38 made it clear that this story is wrapping up with Twangel/Angel and Buffy, not Spike.

No, you're right, I'd say he was most likely talking about the Twilight Universe being soulless. It is portrayed as being a huge jerk, lol--it would give its Big Brother AS3's Connor a run for his money in the jerkiness department.

In terms of continuity, I have no idea. Clearly Joss & the Dark Horse team don't want to give a clear answer, but the latest impression I've gotten from Scott Allie interviews is that they'll be regarding all of the books with ties to After the Fall as semi-canon...

You know what would be really cool? If Joss didn't use souls, possession or betrayal of a loved one as major plot points in any story he ever tells ever again.

lol, how about if Spike & Angel do or don't have a soul based on whether or not Daylight Savings Time is in effect? 😛

 

[white avenger]

You know what would be really cool? If Joss didn't use souls, possession or betrayal of a loved one as major plot points in any story he ever tells ever again.

And while we're on the subject:

From now on, when someone dies in the Buffyverse, they STAY dead, no matter how popular the character was or how much they will be missed.

Joss seems to have a total disregard for the finality of death. It's like, he kills off a character one season, then when a story idea comes up a year later, and that character would be perfect for it, they just invent some way to "un-dead" them (as opposed to "undead," which refers only to vampires. Resurrected vampires, incidentally, would have to be "un-dusted" to come back) and it doesn't even have to be a really good way of doing it.

 

[Anya2012]

This plot sounds really ridiculous. I still don't understand what The Seed is, why is the Master working with them? And how did he survive in the first season?

I'm just about to give up on season 8.

 

[AndrewCrossett]

I should say that I don't hate season 8, or even really dislike it. I'm just exhausted by it.

I think the faster schedule of season 9 will be a big help, but I just can't imagine Joss juggling that many books all at once in addition to being Mr. Big Director Man.

 

[prophecygrrl]

I should say that I don't hate season 8, or even really dislike it. I'm just exhausted by it.

I think the faster schedule of season 9 will be a big help, but I just can't imagine Joss juggling that many books all at once in addition to being Mr. Big Director Man.

Mm, that's true. Joss has a lot on his plate right now. The release of #40 has already been pushed back 2 weeks. Scott Allie said over twitter that this is to coincide with Buffy's birthday (January 19th), but that doesn't make a whole lot of business sense to me...and at NYCC just a few weeks ago, Allie mentioned that Joss still wasn't quite done with the script for #40.

How WILL Joss handle Season 9? 😕

---------- Post added at 09:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:34 PM ----------

This plot sounds really ridiculous. I still don't understand what The Seed is, why is the Master working with them? And how did he survive in the first season?

I'm just about to give up on season 8.

The Master was bonded to the Seed, so it brought him back when he "died". Bleh, the whole concept of the Seed is a little ridiculous (and come on, The Seed of Wonder? Worst name ever.), but basically it's the source of all magic and it keeps the earth connected to all other dimensions. I might be wrong cause I haven't re-read the issues in a while, but that's the gist of it, I think.

 

[VisionGirl]

This plot sounds really ridiculous. I still don't understand what The Seed is, why is the Master working with them? And how did he survive in the first season?

I'm just about to give up on season 8.

The Seed is the source of all magic in the world. The Master survived because the Seed was protecting him. The Master wants to protect the Seed. Buffy & the Gang want to protect it as well, all for their different reasons (OK, they don't all want to protect it, it's possible that Xander & Giles may want to destroy it, and Angel wants to remove it to give to Twilight for the new universe). So Buffy & the Master have kind of formed an alliance, with Willow's very strong urging. God, I hope I'm right with all that, I just reread everything!

---------- Post added at 10:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:40 PM ----------

The Master was bonded to the Seed, so it brought him back when he "died". Bleh, the whole concept of the Seed is a little ridiculous (and come on, The Seed of Wonder? Worst name ever.), but basically it's the source of all magic and it keeps the earth connected to all other dimensions. I might be wrong cause I haven't re-read the issues in a while, but that's the gist of it, I think.

I think you & I may be the only ones up tonight LOL. If Twilight gets the Seed, our world/Buffy's world will either seek to exist or just get torn apart by all these other demons from other dimensions. And if the Seed is destroyed, there is no more magic (although it was indicated that the current active Slayers would still have their powers, and the vampires would too, but no witches, etc). But the Seed is keeping the evil beasties from the other dimensions out, too, right? So whether it is destroyed or stolen by Twilight, it's a bad thing.

 

[Tome]

I can't say I really like the whole 'seed' idea. But I'm glad Angel is actually possessed. Should make the s8 climax better, with a fight between Buffy and him(s2 style?!). I'm curious to see what Xander will do. No way he's going to betray Buff, best friend and all! And what the hell is happening with Willow? Is she gonna try to protect the seed for a selfish reason?

 

[Kean]

No, you're right, I'd say he was most likely talking about the Twilight Universe being soulless. It is portrayed as being a huge jerk, lol--it would give its Big Brother AS3's Connor a run for his money in the jerkiness department.

This was pretty much confirmed by the Twilight lion thingy when it says to Angel,

"But it is you who will finish it. Who will bring me the seed. My soul."

 

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

I am so over all this crap.

When does Season 9 start again?

 

[white avenger]

This was pretty much confirmed by the Twilight lion thingy when it says to Angel,

"But it is you who will finish it. Who will bring me the seed. My soul."

Maybe Angel is going to somehow take the seed into the Twilight universe and seal the gate behind him, which would be his act of atonement for all of the bad stuff that he has hone this year. Then the first few issues of Season 9 would have him once more in a sort of hell, trying to get out, while the others are on this side trying to rescue him. Along about Issue 3 or 4, he gets out, just in time to help square off against the new Big Bad.

 

[VisionGirl]

I just read this in an interview with Georges Jeanty. What do you think the italicized portion means? (Italics mine)

There is a lot of verisimilitude to this arc as we shift from spaceships to underground caverns to this outdoor wasteland. How do you approach designing the pages differently to get something like the final effect here with this sun-swept background?

Usually you do want to separate things out. Like you said, the previous scene was all done dark, and that's intentional because it's underground and in caves, but once Xander and Dawn come up on top you do want the impression that they're not down in that anymore. The sun was written into the script here because this whole scene and the rest of the series rests a lot on the setting sun to further this metaphor that the story comes together at twilight "“ hahaha "“ which is the name of the entity or character or whatever you'll find out next issue about "What is Twilight?" I think that Joss also wanted to have that visually brought forth not just as a metaphor but also the cast approaching that twilight hour as the climax is coming.
http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=29298

 

[prophecygrrl]

Hm, that's really interesting...I guess we're all assuming now that 'Twilight' isn't over? That we *still* don't know what it really is?

Things are just getting curiouser and curiouser...

 

[citiegal17]

I can't say I really like the whole 'seed' idea. But I'm glad Angel is actually possessed. Should make the s8 climax better, with a fight between Buffy and him(s2 style?!). I'm curious to see what Xander will do. No way he's going to betray Buff, best friend and all! And what the hell is happening with Willow? Is she gonna try to protect the seed for a selfish reason?

Personally Angel being possessed comes off as been there done that, and looks like a plot device to have him play martyr when in fact he's one of the victimizers for most of the season, the poor Angel angle is just lame, but its fine if you don't see it the same way. I agree your right I don't see Xander betraying anyone. Willow isn't protecting the seed for selfish reasons, considering that magic has been part of the Buffyverse for billons of years, and if its destroyed it ushers in Fray's horrible future.

 

[white avenger]

Personally Angel being possessed comes off as been there done that, and looks like a plot device to have him play martyr when in fact he's one of the victimizers for most of the season, the poor Angel angle is just lame, but its fine if you don't see it the same way. I agree your right I don't see Xander betraying anyone. Willow isn't protecting the seed for selfish reasons, considering that magic has been part of the Buffyverse for billons of years, and if its destroyed it ushers in Fray's horrible future.

From the way that things are unfolding during these last few issues of the Season, I'm getting the idea that Angel was RECRUITED long before any possession took place. Having some mysterious Higher Being tell him that the only way that things can turn out even SLIGHTLY right is for Angel to make yet another decision effecting other people's lives (this time thousands of lives) is exactly the kind of ego stroking that his ego thrives on, and I have no doubt whatsoever that Angel walked into the bargain in full possession of all of his senses. It isn't until toward the end, when Buffy is finally able to talk him into trying to clean up at least part of the mess that he's made that the real Twilight has to resort to force or trickery in any form.

Make no mistake here. In my eyes at least, Angel is directly responsible for all of the death and destruction that he caused or allowed to happen. Thousands of people died, and there is no Angelus to blame it on this time. Angel was responsible, and Angel, ultimately, should, and I repeat SHOULD have to answer for everything that he did. But I would be truly amazed if he will ever have to do anything more than brood a little more in the future, and all will be forgiven.

 

[nmcil12]

I was really surprised by the soul comment too! I haven't seen anyone speculating that she'd lost her soul. I personally think she's very OOC and that this might even be intentional, but I never thought it'd be because she's soulless.

If she is, I will be very pissed off. Discounting the fact that I adore her (and a soulless Buffy makes me sad 🙁), the show fiddles around SO much with souls that it's starting to get old. Especially since they never quite clear up the value of a soul in the first place. There's still double standards all around the Buffyverse with Spike and Angel, for God's sake.

That just what this crazy season 8 needs just at the end - Buffy now goes soulless - Personally after all the years dedicated in the series to the single most important line of demarcation for Buffy, soul = good no soul = miserable evil thing. It's all too much for me to process.

 

[prophecygrrl]

Am I correct in believing that the actual story ends with Issue #39, and then #40's more or less a set up for what's supposed to happen in Season 9?

Pretty much confirmed that in this month's Q&A with Georges Jeanty:

27. sosa lola: Did you get the script for #40 yet? If so, are you satisfied with the ending? Do you think there are things that weren't covered in the last two issues that should have been?

Georges: I have finished the last issue and it's a great epilogue to the series. After the events of #39, you get a glimpse into what Season 9 could be like. It's one of the best issues I've drawn. Joss wrote it and I felt that he was really on his game with it. There are so many great moments with just character stuff that I'm such a fan of. I kept telling Joss that this issue was so good that there didn't need to be any action in it.

 

[Litheran]

This season should end with Buffy and Spike high, high in the sky....on the bugship you perverts.

Sometimes I think Joss views us as simpletons who will accept anything that's shoveled our way. We know the man has a golden touch; so how come this season has turned out so lackluster? The best character development this season was Faith's; I would almost rather just read her story if she's gonna get the juicy bits.

I'm really hoping there's some time travel loop back to Sunnydale so that this season gets erased ala IWRY.

 

[Buffy Summers]

Willow is so incredibly selfish, it's almost amazing how much.

 

[Stake fodder]

Quoth Buffy: "Wow, this guy is really challenged by the major plot points." Me too! I was getting all mixed up about who wants what with the Seed of Wonder. And then, the demons want to "remove" it, and I'm unclear what that means. Not that their motives matter ultimately.

This does explain a few things about the Master, such as how he was trapped beneath Sunnydale, which I felt was never adequately explained in Season 1. Also, it implies that the Master's physical appearance is connected with his protection of the Seed, so it's not just something that happens to vampires as they become ancient, as has been said before.

Favorite line: Spike telling Giles, "Then go, ye great bloody git!" How often have I thought this - in not quite the same words! - when some character is dragging out a goodbye in a fraught moment. No matter the time shortage or crisis, they always have time to make some long speech, kiss, or in some other way take their blessed time, and I always find that aggravating! But this turns out to be their last real talk, so, shut up, Spike.

Xander makes a joke when Dawn is injured, "Can you carry your sister? She's really heavy." It's an allusion to, "He ain't heavy, he's my brother." But it falls flat, because of poor delivery, and because I don't know if this line is well-known anymore.