Episode Discussion Discussion of 8.39 "Last Gleaming Part 4" - Released 11/01/10 (Dark Horse)

[sosa lola]

You want my reaction for this issue?

I cried. I cried so hard. It reminded me of Chosen, how tears started sliding down my cheeks the second Anya died –not just because Anya died, but also because it's the end. S8 is over. The ride is done. I mean, all the excitement about a new Chen cover, the giddiness I feel whenever a preview is released, the way I bite my nails when reading fans' reviews and hope everybody enjoyed the new issue, and the way I tap my foot restlessly wishing I could read the new issue so I can write questions to Jeanty (And Scott Allie before)


It's all over.


I know we still have #40 but it's mostly a setup for S9…


Buffy's reaction to Giles' death killed me! I cried for Giles' shocked eyes, for Buffy's fat rich tears, for Xander slapping Angel's hand away. I also cried for Willow's wide eyes –her reaction to losing magic and connection with Aluwyn is SO WELL DRAWN! I never thought I'd cry for Willow, but Jeanty made me cry despite of myself –it's like how Alyson H would make you cry for Willow on the show. My heart squeezed for Kennedy who rushed to hug Willow –knowing nothing about Snake Lady and all the crap Willow is doing behind her back.

I was horrified at the melting Slayers, that was so creepy and awful. I hope Satsu and Rowena survived.

I really loved the Spike scene. I love his faith in Buffy and his proud smile because she did it.

While I wish that Xander did something more than just stand around and watch, I personally didn't hate his role much. His faith in Buffy made me happy, brushing Angel's hand away and going to comfort Buffy was also good.

I feel really bad for Buffy. Everybody seems to hate her now and it breaks my heart. I can never imagine how hard it must have been for her: leading all these girls, being known worldwide and not in a good light, being rejected by Giles for Faith and by Xander for Dawn, and then hearing Willow blaming her for Tara's death and keeping Kennedy away from her so she wouldn't die. Pushing Satsu and Xander away so they won't get hurt. And then, in a moment of weakness, falls for Angel's lies –or probably not lies from his prospective- and causes the new apocalypse. I have nothing but love and sympathy for Buffy. She really needs a therapist and some time alone –away from everybody and everything.

What I disliked about the issue is Warren and Amy in Rome –I wish they stuck around and fought with the others. It would have redeemed them a bit. And why the hell is Rome okay when the whole world is facing the apocalypse?

 

[VisionGirl]

It's incredibly disappointing, though, that his actions in the last few seasons of BtVS and in ANGEL S5 caused me to dislike him so much that I didn't feel anything beyond (a bit of) shock at his death.. Besides that - I thought he was confirmed for S9? Doesn't seem permanent and if it's not, then it's all pretty much a waste of time.True but then how is he going to be in S9? And wasn't he on the cover for the next issue? Color me confused.

First of all, if you're having trouble grieving Giles, go over to Whedonesque & read the thread about favorite memories of Giles. That'll make you cry! And like you, part of me is waiting until 40 to see if his death is really permanent. Being on the cover of 40 is confusing, although it could be taken to symbolize a summary of season 8. That's not what they've done with the covers, though. But there have been misleadings with the covers (Xander & Dawn for example).

I really loved the Spike scene. I love his faith in Buffy and his proud smile because she did it.

Sosa, I really liked your entire reaction, and agree with all of it. The Spike thing, though- I was a little sad about it, because while Spike says "Buffy did it", he doesn't yet realize all that she lost (Giles' death, Angel killing him, etc). It's not a happy moment.

 

[sosa lola]

Sosa, I really liked your entire reaction, and agree with all of it. The Spike thing, though- I was a little sad about it, because while Spike says "Buffy did it", he doesn't yet realize all that she lost (Giles' death, Angel killing him, etc). It's not a happy moment.

He doesn't know that Giles is dead, but he knows that Buffy saved the world, and that what matters.

I personally can't wait to see Faith's reaction to Giles' death. She's gonna be crushed. 🙁

 

[VisionGirl]

Posted via Mobile Device

---------- Post added at 12:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:40 PM ----------

I agree about Faith. They've been the closest throughout this season
Posted via Mobile Device

 

[Spikefan31]

go over to Whedonesque & read the thread about favorite memories of Giles.

Could you please give me the link, because I can't seem to find that particular thread. 🙂

---------- Post added at 06:14 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:13 AM ----------

Forget that, i found it 😀

 

[zobothehobo]

I just read a bunch of favorite memories of Giles and a lot of them made me laugh or decide I should do a "Best of Giles" episode marathon (which I'm doing later tonight) but none of them made me sad for his death. Maybe my Best of Giles marathon will help me to grieve.

 

[citiegal17]

Random thought, I haven't gotten my copy yet but I wonder how injuried Willlow got from her fall, I have lots of sympathy for Willow right now, in Goddess and Monsters Muffit is in a wheelchair, I wonder if it will have any tie into that next season.

 

[zobothehobo]

Spikefan31 agrees: Ooh, which episodes? Because I was thinking of doing that too, but I can't remember which are good Giles episodes, except maybe for Band Candy. Oh, and when Giles is a Fyarl demon.

I'm going to pick from this list: http://www.adamreisinger.com/2010/12/11-best-giles-episodes-of-buffy-vampire.html
I don't think I'll do Fear Itself or Lies My Parents Told Me.... but the other 9 look like good things to watch.

 

[Icarium]

I'm going to pick from this list: http://www.adamreisinger.com/2010/12...y-vampire.html
I don't think I'll do Fear Itself or Lies My Parents Told Me.... but the other 9 look like good things to watch.

No Prophecy Girl? No Becoming? And Two to Go? Really? Come on! And Band Candy is so not the quintessential Giles episode. [/Giles fanboy rant]

 

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

I feel like the only person in the world who really doesn't think Giles' death was that horrible...

You're not the only person who's largely unaffected by this. Personally, I'm not as upset about his death as I am concerned about how this is going to affect Buffy. She's already lost her mother. And now, her father. This isn't going to be easy for her. And to have it be at the hands of Angel, the love of her life... just makes it so much worse.

Now, if Xander had died...or Dawn...or Spike, I'd defintely be affected. Devastated.

I don't grieve for Giles. I grieve for Buffy. I grieve for everyone. Most of all? Surprisingly, it's Angel. What he's done is so monumentally awful. He's never going to forgive himself.

Also, I'd like to mention how awful I feel for Willow in this issue. Having lost her magic, she's lost her identity. This will destroy her. Having been largely disinterested in her character for quite some time, I'm excited to see what happens next and to see how she adjusts to a life without her magical abilities.

Who was the betrayer?

 

[zobothehobo]

You're not the only person who's unaffected by this. Personally, I'm as upset about his death as I am concerned about how this is going to affect Buffy. She's already lost her mother. And now, her father. This isn't going to be easy for her. And to have it be at the hands of Angel, the love of her life, makes it so much worse.

That's where my concern lies too. I'm sad for Buffy and I feel bad for her, I'm concerned about how she'll deal with this. But as far as being sad about GILES... I'm not.

 

[Spikefan31]

I'm going to pick from this list: http://www.adamreisinger.com/2010/12...y-vampire.html
I don't think I'll do Fear Itself or Lies My Parents Told Me.... but the other 9 look like good things to watch.

Thanks. The only episode on that list I don't have is OMWF. I better go buy it off iTunes right now. Lies My Parents Told Me happens to be the episode I'm up to in my season 7 rewatch. 🙂

 

[zobothehobo]

Thanks. The only episode on that list I don't have is OMWF. I better go buy it off iTunes right now. Lies My Parents Told Me happens to be the episode I'm up to in my season 7 rewatch. 🙂

OMWF is the first one I bought. I NEEDED it on my iPod. hahaha I won't watch LMPTM if I'm grieving Giles because then I'll just get REALLY angry at him and glad he's dead. (I'd rep this but I've given out too much in the last 24 hours.... Again.)

 

[Skanky Vamp]

I thought this was interesting; newsarama interviewed George Jeanty and among things said was that he and Joss spoke about other things than work, he mentioned comic books etc and the he said "and Lando Calrissian's role in Star Wars."

I thought that was very telling as due to Lando's actions many thought he betrayed his friends but you see he had no choice and came through in the end, playing a large part. So, can we assume that Angel was cast in the Landon role? Does that mean Giles is not dead but frozen in carbonite?

The entire article is here

 

[VisionGirl]

No Prophecy Girl? No Becoming? And Two to Go? Really? Come on! And Band Candy is so not the quintessential Giles episode. [/Giles fanboy rant]

And Lie to Me- his quote to Buffy at the end is a favorite Giles' quote of mine.

As to who is the betrayer? At this point I'm thinking that Angel is the worst betrayer, because of killing Giles. But I think that if betrayal and self-betrayal is the theme of the season, I can see a lot of people having a role: Buffy, Angel, Giles, Willow, Xander (we don't know what he would have done if Giles hadn't been down in the crater).

 

[Krj2501]

Well - in thinking about Joss' History with major character death - he tend to like it to have a major impact on the remaining characters.

And of the core Scoobie gang - i.e. Buffy, Willow Xander & Giles. And while the death of any one of these 4 would deeply impact the surviving 3 members - remember Buffy's death is "The Gift". But season 8 has also been about Buffy, Xander, & Willow finally growing up and becoming full adults. Which means that you need to get ride of the mentor/parent figure. So think about who's was the father figure/mentor to the other three. That would be Giles. In that respect Giles death makes sense.

As for Angel(all be it possessed by Twilight), being the one to kill Giles - basically means the end of Bangel. I say to any one who believes that -- Think Again. Buffy has already ultimately forgave Angel for all of his misdeeds he did as Angelus in Season 2. So I would say that there's a very good chance that Buffy will eventually forgive him for the stuff he did as Twilight - including Giles' death. Remember Buffy is very Big on redemption - even when it's very personal. And Angel his certainly proven that he is capable of making amends, in the past.

 

[citiegal17]

Well - in thinking about Joss' History with major character death - he tend to like it to have a major impact on the remaining characters.

And of the core Scoobie gang - i.e. Buffy, Willow Xander & Giles. And while the death of any one of these 4 would deeply impact the surviving 3 members - remember Buffy's death is "The Gift". But season 8 has also been about Buffy, Xander, & Willow finally growing up and becoming full adults. Which means that you need to get ride of the mentor/parent figure. So think about who's was the father figure/mentor to the other three. That would be Giles. In that respect Giles death makes sense.

As for Angel(all be it possessed by Twilight), being the one to kill Giles - basically means the end of Bangel. I say to any one who believes that -- Think Again. Buffy has already ultimately forgave Angel for all of his misdeeds he did as Angelus in Season 2. So I would say that there's a very good chance that Buffy will eventually forgive him for the stuff he did as Twilight - including Giles' death. Remember Buffy is very Big on redemption - even when it's very personal. And Angel his certainly proven that he is capable of making amends, in the past.

Except this isn't like season 2, in season 2 Angel had no choice when it came to Angelus. This time he is responsible for choicing to betray everyone, its why Twilight was able to possess him in the first place, he's hardly blameless for Giles death. If Buffy even has goggly eyes towards Angel, it'll be not just Jenny's death that she overlooked it'll be Giles, I'm certain that won't go over well with the fandom at large, not to speak for anyone that doesn't feel that way. Buffy's reputation as a feminist icon is damaged this season precisely because she betrayed her morals by overlooking Angel's evil deeds this season, the ones he did not posssesed are worse than the ones he did possessed. If Joss wants to ruin Buffy even more for the sake of the shippers more power to him, and anyone else who is a fan of the ship, no offense intended. There's a reason that its Buffy who is the betrayer this season.

 

[EuroBirdV8]

i think the scoobie-gang will be ripped appart....
giles was an important person for buffy to defeat demons, important for willow and xander to support buffy even when they sometimes had trouble.

giles even helped willow after she killed an human. and kicked buffy's ass😱

buffy wil hate angel cause he killed giles even when its wat not his fault.
maybe hates xander too cause he didnt stop giles.....

maybe she will goeing nuts after this all. and faith...who's te good slayer now. wil try to get buffy back to normal thinking?

well, its maybe an stupid ending of season 8, and a new season 9? the next story-line?

and after this all, i think spike wil even kick angel for betraying them after the death of giles......

important wil be, who wil replace the ''giles'' in the scooby-gang?



(and sorry for my written english, but i do my best😛, not easy for a dutch-man😀)

 

[Buffy4ever2k10]

I´m more concerned about how Faith will react if she finds out. She and Giles shared a special bond throughout season 8 and now he is dead. Faith wouldn´t kill Angel that´s for sure but can she forgive him?

I´m a little bit disappointed about how Giles died. He deserverd a heroic death. Not like this. 🙁

Angel brought this all on himself. He decided to become Twilight. He wasn´t forced or anything like that. Sure he thought it was the right thing to do but come on. He knew people would die because of his actions but he was willing to sacrifice the whole planet for a little one on one time with Buffy. Sorry but that´s not romantic or heroic. That´s just plain stupid and egoistic.

In the moment he took that redicilous costume and made plans to hurt Buffy in all possible ways his character was destroyed. Just my personal opinion about the whole Twilight issue.

What i don´t get is why Joss decided to let him do such horrible things? His character isn´t flawless but the Twilight arc doesn´t made sense at all.

I now prefer the Angel from AATF. The writers did a really good job their and it´s to bad they lost him to Dark Horse.

I´m glad it wasn´t Spike in the costume. 😀


I read all issues on a few days but i´m curious so i´m asking everybody who waited 4 or 5 years for this. Was it worth it?

 

[Litheran]

I read all issues on a few days but i´m curious so i´m asking everybody who waited 4 or 5 years for this. Was it worth it?

Not bad as fanfic goes; bizarre the creator has the same name as Joss.

😀

I'm glad to see Buffy continue in some form; but not happy to see her go in this direction. The only thing that can right this travesty is for Angel to be banished to no shrimp world.

No shrimp for Angel! Join the Movement!