Episode Discussion Discussion of 8.39 "Last Gleaming Part 4" - Released 11/01/10 (Dark Horse)

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OMG...what about Dawn?!

Dawn is native to this dimension, anchored here by Buffy's blood, so she should be OK.

In fact, if she can get in touch with her inner Key-ness, she might just be the only person in this world who can open portals to other dimensions, using her own built-in magic. That might become very important, especially if any of the Scoobies (Willow, maybe) are stuck in other dimensions at the end of this season.
 
Dawn is native to this dimension, anchored here by Buffy's blood, so she should be OK.

In fact, if she can get in touch with her inner Key-ness, she might just be the only person in this world who can open portals to other dimensions, using her own built-in magic. That might become very important, especially if any of the Scoobies (Willow, maybe) are stuck in other dimensions at the end of this season.

I would love it if they did that but I think they have forgotten about Dawns keyness sadly. I doubt we will see anything come of it.

Plus we still need to see a slayer pulled into the portal with all of the remaining demons ala Fray flashback.
 
I would love it if they did that but I think they have forgotten about Dawns keyness sadly. I doubt we will see anything come of it.

They've actually mentioned Dawn's Keyness in passing a few times this season.

Plus we still need to see a slayer pulled into the portal with all of the remaining demons ala Fray flashback.

I think it will be Willow going through that portal, not a Slayer... but not the same portal as the demons. One opened by Aluwyn to rescue her from the death of magic.
 
I don't know what makes me sadder. Giles, the broken scythe, or Angel 🙁 Does anyone think Cordelia might come back again as Angel's guide after what he did?
 
I think it will be Willow going through that portal, not a Slayer... but not the same portal as the demons. One opened by Aluwyn to rescue her from the death of magic.

I think thats a damn fine explanation why Willow was able to 'hold on' to her magic and still be alive etc etc..
 
I don't know what makes me sadder. Giles, the broken scythe, or Angel 🙁 Does anyone think Cordelia might come back again as Angel's guide after what he did?

If ever he needed his best friend, he needs her now. I'm not sure that is possible though. The ramifications of the loss of magic are unknown. I do feel like she should be there though.
 
S
StarSlayer
Good point :)
"And Angel has no idea what it is to have lost friends, family, and comrades in arms, to see innocents endangered, and to see the one who did it get off with no more that the admission of guilt and the promise that he will spend some extra brood time on it every night."

What Angel did affected too many people in far too negative way for a mere simple statement of regret, no matter how much sincerity and mental anguish goes along with that regret, to be a sufficient penalty. He needs to do something positive and tangible to prove himself if he ever wants to be accepted and trusted by the others ever again.
In my opinion he needs to be put down like the dog he is, I mean how many passes can you get before someone with half a brain sees the pattern and says "hmm probably better if we don't let this weak minded fool run around causing havoc any more".
 
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zobothehobo
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white avenger
white avenger
Weak minded, Angel most certainly is, but let's watch out about that "dog" thing. I like dogs.
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SailorSarah
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Someone earlier asked about Faith - I probably should have added in the overview that it shows that she is visiably stronger than the newer slayers and she is able to resist the electric demon's powers and fight him off. So Faith is fine (well as fine as you can be after a big battle like that).

I think the interesting thing looking ahead to season nine is FutureWillow's line from "Time of your Life": "It doesn't matter who dies. It matters who kills them."
 
VisionGirl
VisionGirl
Referring to Angel? Or Buffy destroying the Seed?
I'm still in shock. I mean, Giles? It sounds like a lot of people called this one, but I never saw it coming. This issue really turned out badly for a lot of other people, too - Willow, Faith and the other Slayers, even Amy.

I think it's assumed that the Slayer army will lose their powers, but what about Buffy and Faith? Will they be regular girls now?

It's hard to predict what the end of magic will mean for S9. Joss seems to pick and choose the bits of precident that suit him without much regard to continuity.
 
I'm still in shock. I mean, Giles? It sounds like a lot of people called this one, but I never saw it coming. This issue really turned out badly for a lot of other people, too - Willow, Faith and the other Slayers, even Amy.

I think it's assumed that the Slayer army will lose their powers, but what about Buffy and Faith? Will they be regular girls now?

It's hard to predict what the end of magic will mean for S9. Joss seems to pick and choose the bits of precident that suit him without much regard to continuity.

Aluwyn stated that the vampires & Slayers will remain (although we're assuming that means no new vamps or new activated Slayers). However we're debating whether that means that all the Slayerers will retain their powers, or just Faith & Buffy.
 
Speechless.

Not even sure how to comment at this point...lol

I mean good issue in terms of content, but the content was...not what I had hoped for. Nice dramatic, action packed episode but...I think it kind of ruined a lot of the series, especially season 8 as a whole. I think I may start going into denial and pretendin Buffy ended withChosen.
 
Anya2012
Anya2012
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VisionGirl agrees: Referring to Angel? Or Buffy destroying the Seed?

Both

Buffy is going to have some Major issues with Angel (and herself) and Willow is going to have some major issues with Buffy. Season 9 ain't gonna be no picnic.
 
VisionGirl
VisionGirl
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I wouldn't think so, since it was said that vampires will remain. However, what about Angel's and Spike's souls? Angel particularly was ensouled (thrice) by a spell, by magic.

Reading this, I just got a bad feeling about what might be being set up. One of the strongest points that Spike fans have in the "our vampire is better than yours," box is that Spike worked to get his soul, while Angel was cursed with his. Is it possible that they're setting up a situation where Angel's soul is lost because it's magical curse, and his first season at DH will be him going through the process of getting it back? Kind of putting him on the same level as Spike, because right now Spike holds the honor of being the one that sought out a soul.
I feel that Angelus was never like Spike, Angelus is a killer very different from Angel and that Angelus would never seek out a soul the way Spike did...but the comics clearly aren't afraid to make our characters act quite out-of-character sometimes.
I hope that's not the way it goes at all...but it popped into my head and some "No, it totally won't go that way," reassurance from y'all would make me feel better.

Also, this is my first post. If there's board etiquette that's being broken by not putting a first post elsewhere, feel free to let me know!
 
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zobothehobo
I don't think it would go that way
Tranquillity
Tranquillity
Welcome :)
Damn...

I didn´t read the issue yet because of the freakin snow but i couldn´t wait and read the summary posted on page 1. Many thanks for that.

I´ve got some questions too and i hope somebody who read the issue can explain some things for me. 🙂

First of all. Who the hell was the betrayer? It loooks like it was Angel all along and there is no other person involved. Pretty lame if you ask me...

What about Angel? Is he "normal" again or still under a thrall( or still a muppet...)? Is it possible that his brain was replaced with some cotton balls after the transformation in the Smile Time episode?

Are Buffy and Faith and the rest of the girls are still slayers or did they lost their powers too?

Giles tried to kill Angel? Is that correct?

Now some theories,thoughts or "ideas". 🙂

The world is back to normal and miss meow left the building to brush its fur. Awesome! 🙄

If there is no magic,leprechauns,demons and other supernatural stuff around anymore what are the purpose of the slayers now? Did they just return to their former lifes or what? Everything is pretty confusing right now. Again...

I read that Willow is still alive but how is that possible without any magic? Someone stated that she didn´t just used the magic anymore. She was the magic. So what exactly happend with her?

Warren is dead. HELL YEAH! 😎 His death reminded me of Wizard of Oz. I´m melting. I´m melting. Eat that Warren. 🙂 Sorry folks but after the normal again episode and of course when he killed Tara i just wanted him dead. I literally cheered for Willow after she killed him. Thanks Joss. 😀

Spike is just Spike. I like! Very much!

I hope Faith is still alive too. 😱

I have to read it first but i´m not sure if i really want too...
 
First of all. Who the hell was the betrayer? It loooks like it was Angel all along and there is no other person involved. Pretty lame if you ask me...

Possibly Willow, or Buffy against Willow (in breaking the Seed), or Giles. Of course Angel was a major betrayer all along, and bigtime at the end. They all had betrayal properties/actions, just don't know who exactly Allie et al were referring to when they talked about "the" betrayer.

What about Angel? Is he "normal" again or still under a thrall( or still a muppet...)? Is it possible that his brain was replaced with some cotton balls after the transformation in the Smile Time episode?

As soon as the Seed was broken by Buffy you can tell he realized what he did & the thrall was broken.

Are Buffy and Faith and the rest of the girls are still slayers or did they lost their powers too?

We don't know yet.

Giles tried to kill Angel? Is that correct?

We're not sure if he was going to try to kill Angel, or destroy the Seed.

Now some theories,thoughts or "ideas".

The world is back to normal and miss meow left the building to brush its fur. Awesome!

If there is no magic,leprechauns,demons and other supernatural stuff around anymore what are the purpose of the slayers now? Did they just return to their former lifes or what? Everything is pretty confusing right now. Again...

I read that Willow is still alive but how is that possible without any magic? Someone stated that she didn´t just used the magic anymore. She was the magic. So what exactly happend with her?

Both the questions about the slayers & Willow are great, but we just don't know yet. And leperchauns don't exist in the Buffyverse anyway according to someone (was it Anya?).
 
B
Buffy4ever2k10
Thanks for the answers. :)
Tome
Tome
ROFL at the cotton balls part, hahahaha! Good one. :)
First of all. Who the hell was the betrayer? It loooks like it was Angel all along and there is no other person involved. Pretty lame if you ask me...

According to Joss and Scott, Buffy betrayed herself. I think they meant with this whole Twilight storyline, rather than anything specifically in this scene... although it may refer to Buffy's decision to destroy the Seed rather than kill Angel. I'm not fully clear on that.

What about Angel? Is he "normal" again or still under a thrall( or still a muppet...)? Is it possible that his brain was replaced with some cotton balls after the transformation in the Smile Time episode?

He is fully himself again... and very, very unhappy.

Are Buffy and Faith and the rest of the girls are still slayers or did they lost their powers too?

Still Slayers according to Aluwyn a couple issues ago... although when the Seed is broken there's a scene with many insets of Slayers' faces looking shocked, as if they just felt something. I'm not sure if that was supposed to be them losing their powers.

Giles tried to kill Angel? Is that correct?

Yes, but not very effectively at all.

I read that Willow is still alive but how is that possible without any magic? Someone stated that she didn´t just used the magic anymore. She was the magic. So what exactly happend with her?

I don't know whether the absence of magic would actually kill her... but I have a suspicion she's not going to be around here for much longer. I think Aluwyn has made plans to get her.
 
B
Buffy4ever2k10
Thanks to you too. Still have to read it i guess. :)
Buffy betrayed herself this season, and all the developements that I've read online just don't come off that shocking, and I kinda already suspected a lot of them. Giles dying is very sad and I do think his death will have a big impact and he will be greatly missed, both for the characters in the stories and for me as a reader. RIP Giles the Last the Great Watcher that Sacrificed himself at the Battle of Starbucks, but I always thought he would go out a hero of some kind, he never lost his heart. The betrayal is Buffy betraying herself, Buffy lost her moral certainity as mentioned in A Beautiful Sunset, and she gave into temptation, her blindness for Angel has again cost much senseless death again, and this time it will hit her very close to home. She also betrayed Willow and the slayers, and anyone else who has supported her this season, the slayers have suffered because of her deciscions, although she did try to at least fix the diaster she had a hand in accidentally causing. FDW warned about Buffy's blindness to her lurks in TOYL, and Buffy's ignoring the ones who suffer for the big picture, Fray is the slayer that Buffy can maybe find her way back to, the slayer that cares about innocents just because its the right thing to do, and won't compromise her morals. I'm not saying Buffy is a horrible unfeeling person but she's got a long way to go to get up to the hero she once was. Xander still remains the heart of Buffyverse and he's still one of the most loyal and noble hero's of the verse, that saved the world without superpowers, but this season definitely challenges just what makes a hero, and not everyone's heroes are the same. Willow who I think is someone I can still admire, and I think there is still hope for her, after all the future is not set in stone, as Willow said in Retreat. Angel's character has probably been lobotomized as a character for many people, and I can relate but his character also symbolizes how compromising with evil can destroy you and others around you, but there is always a darkness before the dawn, the sun will always set and come up again for a new day, a new day in which to start over with a clean slate, and at least a chance to try and do what you can to make up for your mistakes, but the past cannot be changed and thats what the Buffyverse characters have to live with everyday, but still try. HOPE is something that drives the human spirit, it is what sustains us, characters like Xander and Willow have continued to keep on fighting for what they believe in, no matter how dire the circumstances, Angel and Spike are characters that have at least tried to make the world better and keep on going, Spike has truly evolved over the years, Giles has gone out a hero, Buffy I believe can grow from whats happened at least I think she will, and now I'm just rambling, so I'll end it here.
 
VisionGirl
VisionGirl
Nice analysis!
Anya2012
Anya2012
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SpaceLord agrees: Don't worry about Angel, he'll be as good as new when S9 starts.....he's never responsible for anything he does...he's the hero

And that's what's irritating. Please, someone, avenge Giles!
 
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