Discussion of Buffy 11.12 - Released 10/25/17 (Dark Horse)

[flow]

I'm sure I was told once that she could veto Buffy appearing in the more scantily clad, sexist/stereotypical comic styling for women.

That raises an interesting question. SMG was very strict about always being clothed on the show and - unlike JM - had a clause that protected her from wearing nothing but a sock. Could she have a similar veto for the comics as well ? Has Buffy ever been pictured with no or almost none clothes in the comics ?

And do you think, that it is somehow weird or awkward for her and for the other actors as well, to know, that there is a comic character out there, that walks around with your face and body ?

flow

 

[Grace]

That raises an interesting question. SMG was very strict about always being clothed on the show and - unlike JM - had a clause that protected her from wearing nothing but a sock. Could she have a similar veto for the comics as well ? Has Buffy ever been pictured with no or almost none clothes in the comics ?

She definitely was shown naked with Angel covering strategic bits during the Twilight space sex. (see here if you're brave, ha)

I found the reference that I was thinking of about getting SMG's approval. Jo Chen mentioned to get the job drawing covers for Season 8 that she had to pass "Sarah Michelle Gellar's stringent requirements for rendering her in pencil form" Jo's Playground

So I think she does get to sign off on new artists. Not sure to what degree she gets to weigh in on the depictions after that.

 

[Priceless]

That raises an interesting question. SMG was very strict about always being clothed on the show and - unlike JM - had a clause that protected her from wearing nothing but a sock. Could she have a similar veto for the comics as well ? Has Buffy ever been pictured with no or almost none clothes in the comics ?

I also thought of the image of Spike and Buffy making love on the space ship. They're covered by a sheet, but it's obvious they're naked 🙂
 

😀

 

[Stoney]

Do you mean Buffy's S8 fantasy about Spike after she's showered on the ship and he's trying to talk to her @Priceless? There was the silhouette of Buffy/Spike once they were actually together in S10 too, when Buffy is seeing it in the mindwalk, and some implied nudity in the season with the showering scene and when she/Spike were in bed together/morning after type stuff once or twice too I think. But there isn't much in the comics and it does, S8/Twilight aside, tend to be subtle. 🙂

Thanks for that link @Grace, it was nice to see the audition sketches Jo Chen did. It could be that SMG is more strict when the depictions are pencil which are aiming for a more true likeness and are going to be more definitively 'her' rather than a more generic artist's version of Buffy. It's interesting though, I'd love to understand what the boundaries on it are.

@flow I doubt the canon comic continuation feels too strange to them, especially with the ones which are all under Joss' eye. As a side-step to this, I often wonder how aware the actors are of the prolific fanfiction that has been written about the characters. I think it would creep me out personally to find that you get very graphic stories/scenes and all the AUs too that aren't even really truly the character. I mean that is just like casting you for a role and, with both, mentally picturing 'you' in that fantasised role is part of what that person is doing. I think I'd probably actually be offended by a good deal of it and some of the manips you get in banners are actually using their faces with other bodies too in ways that I'm sure would ick you out. 😵

 

[Priceless]

Do you mean Buffy's S8 fantasy about Spike after she's showered on the ship and he's trying to talk to her @Priceless? There was the silhouette of Buffy/Spike once they were actually together in S10 too, when Buffy is seeing it in the mindwalk, and some implied nudity in the season with the showering scene and when she/Spike were in bed together/morning after type stuff once or twice too I think. But there isn't much in the comics and it does, S8/Twilight aside, tend to be subtle. 🙂

All those scenes are good, but I would love it if S12 had a proper sex scene 🙂 Nothing nasty, but something like the Twilight/create a world sex would be good see with Spike and Buffy

 

[Stoney]

Sans the weird monkey feet thing Buffy had going on in the Twilight sex (visible in the bottom panel of Grace's link above). That was odd. 😉

 

[Priceless]

Sans the weird monkey feet thing Buffy had going on in the Twilight sex (visible in the bottom panel of Grace's link above). That was odd. 😉

Lol do you mean the toe curling? I don't have a problem with it 😀 Do you think it would weird Christos Gage out if I tweeted him asking for a Spuffy sex scene? 😀😱🙄

 

[flow]

@Stoney, yes, that is actually, what I am thinking. It goes for the comics as well as for fanfic or other fanart like banners or drawings. I recently saw a fan-art pencil drawing (it was linked by EF) that was pretty much like the Spike and Buffy comic scene but without the sheets.

They are fictional characters, but they are real people as well and they are (mostly) recognisable. They all got kids. SMG`s children are eight and five years old and I don`t know, if I would like my six year old, to be confronted with something like that on the internet or elsewhere.

flow

 

[TriBel]

but something like the Twilight/create a world sex would be good see with Spike and Buffy

So you want to recreate a sex scene that's regularly in the "top 10 worst sex scenes in a comic" list? "Shudder".
The 5 Most Ridiculous Sex Scenes in Superhero Comic Book History
TBH, and no disrespect to Angel, I thought the aftermath scenes with Spike were more tasteful - and more erotic.

 

[Priceless]

So you want to recreate a sex scene that's regularly in the "top 10 worst sex scenes in a comic" list? "Shudder".
The 5 Most Ridiculous Sex Scenes in Superhero Comic Book History
TBH, and no disrespect to Angel, I thought the aftermath scenes with Spike were more tasteful - and more erotic.

Well now I don't 😛 But I would like to see Buffy and Spike as 'contented' as Buffy and Twilight were . . . and I realise that makes me sound weird 😳🙂

 

[Grace]

Thanks for that link @Grace, it was nice to see the audition sketches Jo Chen did. It could be that SMG is more strict when the depictions are pencil which are aiming for a more true likeness and are going to be more definitively 'her' rather than a more generic artist's version of Buffy. It's interesting though, I'd love to understand what the boundaries on it are.

Oh, that makes sense. I just went looking for more and found Steve Morris'.

https://did%3D0544b3232cdbb0e551e281adbd2922a76c3ae4b3%3Bid%3D117390076266%3Bkey%3DMYg6IkwhiMIhaWb-bH_DMg%3Bname%3Dbuffythecomicslayer

On an unrelated note, I love this Buffy vs. Buffy faceoff that Jeanty and Isaacs did.

View this content on Instagram

View this content on Instagram

 

[TriBel]

Buffy and Spike as 'contented'

LOL! I've no objection to "contented" - what bothers me is the intimation that in the process of evolving they'd actually devolved ("monkey feet" LOL!). I'm not sure if their closeness was intended to evoke the ancient Greek androgyny (the other half etc.) but it made me think they'd been experimenting with superglue.🙂 I liked the "effulgent" afterglow.😀

 

[Stoney]

Lol do you mean the toe curling? I don't have a problem with it 😀 Do you think it would weird Christos Gage out if I tweeted him asking for a Spuffy sex scene? 😀😱🙄

Toe curling in principle I don't have a problem with, but that visual just doesn't look right to me. Surely toe curling should curve the arch of your foot somewhat too, that looks like she is cramping! It's the way her foot stays so flat but the toes bunch perhaps, it just looks weird/deformed to me. Poor monkeys. (I honestly haven't looked at the pics as closely as all this implies btw!! 😀)

Re: tweeting Gage. Ha, yes, quite possibly it would. 😉

Not that I'd grumble about another sex scene, but it would have to have purpose for being in there with such limited page space. I like that they are just a functioning couple so we just get references and fade-to-black moments to show that it is a physically active loving relationship, but accept that it isn't a plot point between them beyond that to warrant showing us more. There may come a storyline that opens up the option again, but as they are already together that would most likely be tied to some issue/angst. Plus, it's great to have so much focus on Spuffy and it very clearly not be all about sex for either of them.

@Stoney, yes, that is actually, what I am thinking. It goes for the comics as well as for fanfic or other fanart like banners or drawings. I recently saw a fan-art pencil drawing (it was linked by EF) that was pretty much like the Spike and Buffy comic scene but without the sheets.

They are fictional characters, but they are real people as well and they are (mostly) recognisable. They all got kids. SMG`s children are eight and five years old and I don`t know, if I would like my six year old, to be confronted with something like that on the internet or elsewhere.

I think it is different with the official comic just because it is an official continuation of the characters that Joss created. I think if I was one of the actors I would feel differently about that. But the fanart/fanfics which get more graphic would ick me, definitely. I mean, some of the stories in fanfic that become known/accepted categories can be pretty awful storylines/inclusions. How horrific would it be to see a whole bank of stories which feature 'you' being brutalised, some stories focusing on that, and know that picturing this happening to you is a form of entertainment for people. Egads! And yes, your kids/partner/parents seeing that, it would be horrible. 😳

 

[Priceless]

Not that I'd grumble about another sex scene, but it would have to have purpose for being in there with such limited page space. I like that they are just a functioning couple so we just get references and fade-to-black moments to show that it is a physically active loving relationship, but accept that it isn't a plot point between them beyond that to warrant showing us more. There may come a storyline that opens up the option again, but as they are already together that would most likely be tied to some issue/angst. Plus, it's great to have so much focus on Spuffy and it very clearly not be all about sex for either of them.

You are right, I wouldn't want a sex scene just to lead to more angst. I did enjoy the 'light a fire' scene in the last season and I agree that's it's nice to see their relationship isn't just about the mind-blowing sex 😀 I'm just being greedy, I want to see every aspect of my favourite relationship.

 

[TriBel]

Seriously - I've been thinking about this. The Twilight thing - writ large as it were - for all to see (if they didn't have time to close their eyes) is in keeping with the idea Buffy/Angel was an "already inscribed". What appeals to me about the Spike/Buffy scene is it sneaks in under the bar - that it comes from a "dark place" - the unconscious - is about a "dark place" - her desire for Spike/Spike himself - and is categorically NOT dark - as I said - it's effulgent. Effulgent is my word for the day - and I seem to have adopted an Emily Dickinson style of punctuation!

LOL! Monkey feet! I've just googled Monkey Feet (I know!) and aside from silly slippers I got this. Thought - doesn't Buffy use incredibly babyish language "bestest" at the end? Nah! I'll go with Monkey feet!

 

[Stoney]

Visual similarity makes sense, a baby's foot arch doesn't develop until the toddler years I don't think.

The lack of arch with the toe curling misses out on flowing lines and visual rhymes with the curve of the calf etc too. I just find the Twilight space clench is just an ugly visual of something that should be sensual. It speaks of guttural grunts rather than gasping moans. Bah, I need to think about effulgence and burn the images from my mind. Plus, I'm giving this all waaaaay too much time/thought. 😛

 

[GoSpuffy]

Is anyone following AtS S11? I Still think it's odd that there is no S12 announemen and I wonder if Buffy could show up in AtS or the Giles comic.

 

[Priceless]

Is anyone following AtS S11? I Still think it's odd that there is no S12 announemen and I wonder if Buffy could show up in AtS or the Giles comic.

Angel S11 has taken a real turn in the last few issues and there is a possibility something major is going to happen to Angel. It could be that the publishers are waiting to that season to end before announcing anything new. I do think the next issue could be a crossover, depending on how AtS finishes

 

[Grace]

Angel S11 has taken a real turn in the last few issues and there is a possibility something major is going to happen to Angel. It could be that the publishers are waiting to that season to end before announcing anything new. I do think the next issue could be a crossover, depending on how AtS finishes

Since @Priceless is the optimist on Angel S11, I will fill my role as pessimist, and say that I don't think they will have the cojones to go through with any earth-shattering changes for Angel. 🙂 Corinna Bechko has said that the ideas she got from Joss & Co. from the story summit (which she wasn't a part of) were very general, so I would be surprised for one of them to be that Angel should end up human, though of course I could be wrong. Christos Gage all but confirmed in his Q&A after Buffy S11 ended that there wouldn't be any crossover between the two titles. Honestly, the entire point of Angel S11 seems to have been to keep Angel out of what was happening in BtVS S11 (so kind of like the Pylea arc), but to leave Faith free to cross over.

Freddye Miller mentioned at the end of Angel #11 that there wouldn't be any announcements about a Season 12 for awhile, so I would guess we won't hear anything until the Giles mini next spring. That's set within Season 11, so I doubt Buffy will make much of an appearance. The reunion on the rooftop at the end of BtVS #12 is set after the events of the Giles mini.

 

[Mrs Gordo]

I'm signing in as the moderate candidate. I think perhaps Angel will go through something major and transformative (or at least I remain hopeful he will) but I do not believe Buffy will make any type of appearance. I really do think that perhaps they aren't saying anything until Angel finishes and MAYBE that's because what happens on Angel will affect what happens in Season 12. Because it wouldn't hurt them to say something like "we are getting together to discuss Season 12" or "we are making plans for Season 12" instead everyone keeps saying things like "stay tuned" "you have to wait." Hell maybe he will just die. And to that end I say... perhaps its time he rest in peace. 🙁
 
Also re asking Christos for sex scene, it seems after Season 9, they decided to take the comics back into PG-13 category. No one really cusses anymore where as in Season 8-9 everyone was cussing up a storm. Tons of pretty explicit scenes. Now its all fade to black. I wonder if they got too many complaints or were trying to capture a younger audience? It seems strange that there was such an abrupt change.

regularly in the "top 10 worst sex scenes in a comic" list?

Really - there are multiple lists out there like this so that this "regularly" happens?

Anyway, DBJ guys... Angel sex is so good it creates universes. 😛