Spoiler! Discussion of Buffy 9.05 "Slayer Interrupted"- Released 01/11/12 (Dark Horse)

[babyjagger1993]

I'm fairly convinced that there won't be any abortion by Buffy. They wouldn't write that pregnancy in, one of the biggest things that ever happened on the show, if it's just there for a few issues and then would be gone like nothing. They obviously have plans for Buffy and her baby. It's not something that you just write in. Oh yeah, something's cooking, and not just in Buffy's oven!

Do you remember how cordelia got pregnant the first time?

Drugged and Implanted with a demon.

this is exactly what is going to happen to buffy too.

 

[Chosen Enemy]

Do you remember how cordelia got pregnant the first time?

Drugged and Implanted with a demon.

this is exactly what is going to happen to buffy too.

No, not exactly. Cordelia's case wasn't meant to be a big story in the first place. It was just a sub story. And with all the talk about Buffy's pregnancy, you can tell it's serious, it's meant to be a big deal. It's Buffy after all, with something that's meant to be a big arc. No, I have no doubt they're not doing this just for the fun of it, just to have a story for an issue or two. Have Buffy pregnant and then an abortion? Doesn't make any sense.

 

[babyjagger1993]

No, not exactly. Cordelia's case wasn't meant to be a big story in the first place. It was just a sub story. And with all the talk about Buffy's pregnancy, you can tell it's serious, it's meant to be a big deal. It's Buffy after all, with something that's meant to be a big arc. No, I have no doubt they're not doing this just for the fun of it, just to have a story for an issue or two.

Cordelia is the last person I would expect to be a sensible mother....so good point.

If Buffy is Pregnant...It has something to do with that freaky looking red egg.

She wouldnt fall into bed with someone she doesnt know and have unprotected sex....that's very OOC for her.

How many times has she said that she didnt want to turn into Joyce?

Being a single mom and working a bummy job.

The only way I could see this arc making sense is if she has a miscarriage(which would make her grow up a little bit) and/or if the baby turns out to be Twilight/Angel's which would tie into the space sex thingie.

I hope this arc doesnt turn into a soap opera....I'm trying to ween off of those.

 

[Chosen Enemy]

Cordelia is the last person I would expect to be a sensible mother....so good point.

If Buffy is Pregnant...It has something to do with that freaky looking red egg.

She wouldnt fall into bed with someone she doesnt know and have unprotected sex....that's very OOC for her.

How many times has she said that she didnt want to turn into Joyce?

Being a single mom and working a bummy job.

The only way I could see this arc making sense is if she has a miscarriage(which would make her grow up a little bit) and/or if the baby turns out to be Twilight/Angel's which would tie into the space sex thingie.

I hope this arc doesnt turn into a soap opera....I'm trying to ween off of those.

Doesn't matter right now if it's OOC, it happened. And there are quotes from Allie that prove that it's true, because of future scenes, like Spike inssisting her to sit out of fight, etc. And it is OOC of Buffy to have unprotected sex, but she was drunk. It wasn't really out of will, it just happened, not something she chose to do.

The plot can go in many ways, not just if it's Angel's baby, because of a few points (that were made by me and others) that mean that Angel cannot be the father, it didn't have to happen in that space sex.

What I was saying is, there could be a birth because it doesn't make sense for Joss to make something as big as this happen and just make it disappear. You'll be surprised how Joss can make things like this work, and so will I. I suspect something big will happen with this baby, but they won't just end it and make it go away and move on. That wouldn't make any sense.

About the last part, I agree. That's why I think something mystical is gonna happen with this baby, so it won't be a soap opera.

 

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

In USA, is it considered okay from the physiological standpoint to keep a baby that was conceived when a woman was very drunk?

People aren't so concerned about the baby being conceived while the woman is drunk, as they are about the woman drinking while pregnant.

 

[Moscow Watcher]

[MENTION=10582]brinkster130[/MENTION] [MENTION=3210]Joan[/MENTION] the Vampire Slayer - thank you for explanations.

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I just read a fic that already explores the possibility of abortion:

http://coalitiongirl.livejournal.com/143639.html#cutid1

The situation reminds me much of 2002-2003, when people wrote stories based on spoilers, too - and it makes me excited about season 9, no matter how many ordeals Joss will expose Buffy to.

But I agree with the posters who think there won't be abortion. Buffy's baby will have an epic story!

ETA:
When Dawn was introduced in season 5, people initially thought that it was soap-opera. But her introduction resulted in one of the strongest and most heartbreaking arcs.

 

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

[MENTION=10582]brinkster130[/MENTION] [MENTION=3210]Joan[/MENTION] the Vampire Slayer - thank you for explanations.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I just read a fic that already explores the possibility of abortion:

http://coalitiongirl.livejournal.com/143639.html#cutid1

The situation reminds me much of 2002-2003, when people wrote stories based on spoilers, too - and it makes me excited about season 9, no matter how many ordeals Joss will expose Buffy to.

But I agree with the posters who think there won't be abortion. Buffy's baby will have an epic story!

ETA:
When Dawn was introduced in season 5, people initially thought that it was soap-opera. But her introduction resulted in one of the strongest and most heartbreaking arcs.

Coalitiongirl wrote a great little drabble the other day about abortion, too. I'm loving the fandom reaction to this!

Great point about Dawn.

 

[VisionGirl]

As far as I know sexual assault on an unconscious female while drunk yourself is still considered a rape if she was indeed unresponsive. And getting somebody drunk to the point of them blacking out is kind of awful. A child conceived under such circumstances is pretty much a child of rape. If that happened.

Try imagine getting pregnant from complete stranger while being blacked out - then try to be flexible about your body being violated like this, then speak about black and white.

OK, now I get why we're sometimes on different sides of this issue. It all hinges on the definition of "blackout". You are interpreting that term to mean "unconscious", correct? And yes, a person having sex with an unconscious person is indeed violating that person & taking advantage of the situation. An unconscious person cannot give consent.

I am friends with lots of recovering alcoholics. When they use the term "blackout" they are not necessarily referring to unconsciousness. They are often referring to the short-term memory loss that comes with excessive drinking. So, they were awake and conscious during said action, but can't remember it. (they often say "I did X while in a blackout") In that case it's more iffy. Can a drunk person be of sane mind and consent to anything? Can they be held accountable for their actions? They are certainly held accountable legally for drinking while intoxicated, even if they don't remember it. Is the person having sex with Buffy guilty of rape, even if Buffy gave consent? What if the other person was not drunk? What if they were?

There are two points I want to discuss.

First - about conceiving in a drunk state. I wonder if my assessment of the situation is wrong because of the difference in national traditions and sex education.

I live in Russia and I was brought up in the belief that conceiving in drunk state is extremely dangerous for baby's mental and physical capabilities.

I noticed that at Whedonesque there were only two people who brought it up - Ladydorotea and me. And, as far as I know, Ladydorotea grew up in Russia. Then another fan spoke about it on my LJ, and that fan, who now lives in USA, is from Russia too.

The mod at Whedonesque told me that "being drunk during conception doesn't affect the development of a blastocyst that may not even actually be conceived or implanted yet."

So I have a question to American posters. In USA, is it considered okay from the physiological standpoint to keep a baby that was conceived when a woman was very drunk? I'm not talking about moral problems here - I talk only about physiology. If, say, a husband and a wife conceived a baby when a wife was drunk, would they be worried about consequences?

It has absolutely nothing to do with culture or nationality, and everything to do with medical fact. Alcohol cannot harm an embryo that is not implanted yet (which happens approximately 2 weeks after conception) (http://www.whattoexpect.com/askques...h-and-just-found-out-i-39-m-pregnant-did.html). Actually, if drunk during sex, most probably the alcohol is out of the woman's system before conception even happens. Lots and lots of people drink before they know they're pregnant. If alcohol had serious consequences to early embryos, women would not be having babies or be having a lot more affected babies. It is not until implantation that embryos can be affected by anything a woman intakes (food, medicine, alcohol, etc). In fact, the whole discussion of total abstinence during pregnancy is controversial (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/29/dining/29preg.html?pagewanted=all). Plenty of women worldwide drink lightly/moderately during pregnancy with no effect at all to baby. Personally, I think that this issue in relation to Buffy's story is actually a non-issue.

Now, heavy drinking during pregnancy can indeed result in Fetal Alcohol Syndrome. By the way, on Whedonesque someone mentioned Down Syndrome. Down Syndrome is a genetic condition and is not in anyway caused by consumption of alcohol by the pregnant woman.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Another question/pondering is about the narrative possibilities. Comparisons with "Veronica Mars" made me wonder if there will be a detective plot - a real investigation, with twists and turns? And if it will be a genre story at its core? (Think "Terminator" - a classic sci-fi adventure about time-travel that resulted in impregnating a woman with future savior of humanity.)

I reread issue 1. Buffy remembers her conversations with Xander, Riley, Andrew. But she doesn't remember anything about Heinrich. It's unclear why she went to him. To invite to the party? Why him? Why not other neighbors? Maybe he called and threatened to call police, so Buffy went to him to stop him? In any case, she went and came back on her own, so she wasn't unconscious during sex.
In "Life Serial" she was very drunk, but she remembered what she did. Is it possible that her amnesia was artificially induced? By Tink (I think "giant mosquito" line was directed at her). Or by Heinrich.

I hope there will be a twist. Like, Buffy meets Tink in person and finds out that Tink saw something crucial. Something that will be the starting point of investigation. The clues turn out to be false, but in the meantime Buffy finds another evidence, etc...

Then, in the end of the season there will be the crucial revelation that Buffy's child is special and she has to do something beartbreaking.

What do you think?

I think that's an interesting and very plausible storyline lol! However, it seems from Allie's comments that who the father is is not what's going to be emphasized (which is why they made it a mystery). I think that's a misstep though, since obviously from this discussion and those on other forums, the identity of the father is in the forefront of readers' minds.

 

[ladydorotea]

However, I will repeat that A) Buffy has not been thinking about that night as violative, not that we have seen. She had sex, she does not know with whom. I believe she will think of the pregnancy more as a consequence of her drunken state than as a product of rape and B) while I think it is realistic for Buffy to consider abortion, I don't believe she will have the procedure.

Well, I talked with my husband about it - we both watched all of BtVS, AtS, and most of Veronica Mars series and I do give him the comics from time to time. He is not interested in the comics but sort of entertains my investment. He thinks it sounds totally like rape, because man has to be conscious to perform the act while woman can be passed out. Not remembering an act for a man therefore is virtually impossible, while for a woman it is quite possible. Since nobody came forward and apologized to Buffy like 'look, I think we went a bit too far yesterday, I am sorry, lets be friends' it sounds exactly like VM situation and he thinks no excuses should be made here for the man being drunk as well.

Since I believe the baby will turn out to be Angel's I am not overly jumping out of my skin for an abortion story. (Screw the timing in the Allie/Jeanty Q/As. The team is renown for outright lying about advanced spoilers - RE Drusilla appearance in Buffy books) But I would like the option of termination to be at the least discussed in the story so that we know she made a conscious choice. I still think Buffy might have been violated while already pregnant - and I seriously want her not to let it go until she finds out who it was ( if there was anybody) , because otherwise that might happen to some other girl again.

 

[Kean]

Since nobody came forward and apologized to Buffy like 'look, I think we went a bit too far yesterday, I am sorry, lets be friends' it sounds exactly like VM situation and he thinks no excuses should be made here for the man being drunk as well.

I seem to be having a memory here. For the record, I still believe Angel is the father, but didn't Buffy basically have the above conversation with her boss in the coffee shop? She turned up for work and he said that her shift had been covered because of what happened the night before?

Now, he could just referring to her general fall-down drunkenness but I thought it was implied that he was talking about something specific between them.

 

[ladydorotea]

I seem to be having a memory here. For the record, I still believe Angel is the father, but didn't Buffy basically have the above conversation with her boss in the coffee shop? She turned up for work and he said that her shift had been covered because of what happened the night before?

Now, he could just referring to her general fall-down drunkenness but I thought it was implied that he was talking about something specific between them.

Heh, if it did - then definitely they should cover it for the audience. What is happening right now though is that the team 'knows' what happened and how it happened and thinks that teasing the fandom is lots of fun. The fandom though 'does not know' and invents various scary outlandish scenarios - because well, that's what we do. Allie was thinking of pulling the leg with his interview - but it resulted in him overwriting the facts presented in the story itself - i.e. everybody assumed : he said she does not know - he meant that the conversation in #1 does not matter! He meant that the timing not matching does not matter! Etc., etc. That's what I call putting one's foot in one's mouth.

 

[VisionGirl]

[MENTION=7585]Kean[/MENTION], you are correct, that's what her boss said. Although we don't know if that meant they had sex, or just that he covered her shift because of all the drinking.

 

[Icarium]

He thinks it sounds totally like rape, because man has to be conscious to perform the act while woman can be passed out. Not remembering an act for a man therefore is virtually impossible, while for a woman it is quite possible.

See VisionGirl's post above. Blackout drunk is not the same as unconscious. It's entirely possible for a man or a woman to be an active participant in a sexual act and not remember it later. So much so that a character waking up in bed with somebody they don't know is a comedy staple. This doesn't rule out the possibility of rape, obviously, but for now it's just that - a possibility. Considering the relatively light tone of 9.01 in regards to Buffy's drunken hijinks I would find it very odd if it turns out Buffy was raped. And this is coming from someone who thinks the comics are pretty terrible in general, so it's not a case of me blindly trusting Joss.

 

[Moscow Watcher]

[MENTION=10354]VisionGirl[/MENTION] - thank you for detailed explanations. I was taught in school that alcohol may damage the egg cell before or after fertilisation - but I'm not expert enough to debate it.

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I think that's an interesting and very plausible storyline lol! However, it seems from Allie's comments that who the father is is not what's going to be emphasized (which is why they made it a mystery). I think that's a misstep though, since obviously from this discussion and those on other forums, the identity of the father is in the forefront of readers' minds.

My impression is that Allie's replies are non-committal and full of vague hints of something brewing. Like this one:

Q: what sort of challenges or opportunities does it present for Joss and the other creators from a storytelling standpoint?
A: Gotta leave that for the upcoming issues...

And Allie, being an editor and storyteller can't not know that mystery is the best way to attract interest. He couldn't make such a misstep. Besides, it's not only him, it's Joss who wrote the set-up personally. Joss is one of the finest storytellers ever.

That's why I think the mystery is deliberate and investigating it will play a big role in the upcoming issues. (I may be wrong, of course.)

 

[Leeson]

Well, I talked with my husband about it - we both watched all of BtVS, AtS, and most of Veronica Mars series and I do give him the comics from time to time. He is not interested in the comics but sort of entertains my investment. He thinks it sounds totally like rape, because man has to be conscious to perform the act while woman can be passed out. Not remembering an act for a man therefore is virtually impossible, while for a woman it is quite possible. Since nobody came forward and apologized to Buffy like 'look, I think we went a bit too far yesterday, I am sorry, lets be friends' it sounds exactly like VM situation and he thinks no excuses should be made here for the man being drunk as well.

I'll point out what everyone else has, just in case: in English idiom "black out drunk" does not necessarily mean unconscious. I did not realise that this might be a point of confusion. It just means that someone has had so much to drink that they lose memory of it, not that they passed out. I'm not saying that Buffy passed out and someone had sex with her - that's rape fully and completely. I'm saying that Buffy was awake and the other person was awake, both were very drunk and in that situation, the issue of consent is a little more awkward.

Now, he could just referring to her general fall-down drunkenness but I thought it was implied that he was talking about something specific between them.

I didn't notice that, but yeah, he did. I have a new person on my list of possibilities, but I'm still hoping for Heinrich or Andrew.

This is what I love about Buffy, though! It can incite so much in the way of discussion an the way situations are viewed by different fans.

 

[babyjagger1993]

I asked Scott Allie a few nights ago on twitter:

[MENTION=10544]Scott[/MENTION]Allie Will Bangel ever meet again in the comics or has him being twilight killed the chance of that ever happening again?

This was his response:

[MENTION=8805]buffys[/MENTION]oapAddict I don't think that doors closed as long as those two are alive. They definitely need time apart, tho.


Does Anyone Know what to make out of that?

 

[Moscow Watcher]

[MENTION=11769]babyjagger1993[/MENTION] - I think that Joss and his writers will never give a definitive answer. They'll always be keeping the proverbial carrot of front of shippers' noses.

I think in the very end Joss will give Bangel a brief moment of reconciliation and maybe intimacy - and the next day they both will die in a battle. Pretty much what she did to Spuffy in season 7. But I don't think they'll ever be reunited in a "happily ever after" finale. Nobody will get a happy ending in Jossverse.

I may be wrong, of course - I'm a Spuffy shipper, and I can't be objective.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Interesting meta: ShipperX muses on Buffy's baby's prospects in Jossverse.
http://shipperx.livejournal.com/675133.html

Humor: A Short Play, in One Act by Stormwreath
http://stormwreath.livejournal.com/131367.html#cutid1
Author "reconstructs" the summit in Joss' house one year ago, when he and other writers were plotting season 9.

 

[ladydorotea]

[MENTION=11769]babyjagger1993[/MENTION], I am a hardcore Bangel and I find this exchange very exciting. Exactly because you asked simply if they will ever meet again - but SA took it literally for asking if they will be together romantically again and answered that as long as these two are alive the door is not closed on their reunion. As for no happy couples ever ending together in Jossverse, this ain't true.

 

[Kean]

I asked Scott Allie a few nights ago on twitter:

[MENTION=10544]Scott[/MENTION]Allie Will Bangel ever meet again in the comics or has him being twilight killed the chance of that ever happening again?

This was his response:

[MENTION=8805]buffys[/MENTION]oapAddict I don't think that doors closed as long as those two are alive. They definitely need time apart, tho.


Does Anyone Know what to make out of that?

I ship B/A hard and from this I am getting that we shouldn't expect to see them together any time soon, but they will be together again. Basically, the standard line on B/A.

 

[Gum Gnome33]

Ugh, I'm thinking it's Severin, guys. I didn't get a chance to read this issue or all of the last but I did read the synopsis of each and the discussions here. He zapped her and we don't know what the consequences were, right? Well you know how Joss and co love to overuse the mystical pregnancy trope... I'm thinking the chatter re: drunken sex and cryptic interactions were meant to be red herrings. If Severin has the power to take away the demon within, maybe he can put it in, too. Or something else entirely, involving violating people for his own gain.
Any thoughts? Did I miss something in either issue that would negate this horrid possibility entirely?