Do Buffy's uh... personal choices... bother anyone else?

Pulse said:
Buffy hooking up with Satsu was surprising, but come'on it is Buffy, she is kind of all over the map. I don't think it's particularily out of character for Buffy to do things that she has no idea what she's doing it. Also you have to think about the time gap between the show and comics. People can grow a hell of a lot. Buffy theoretically in the last season was.... 21? (The age of a third year unversity student I think), which is my age now, and I know that in four years I will be remarkable different.

To me people saying it's like season 6 all over again is a strange argument because I didn't understand people being of critical of her then either. People get depressed, people change, and it happens. And sure I think anyone here can say, Buffy shouldn't have done that, or that was no cool, but to me I have to draw the line at saying it's "out of character" in a way that you are judging the writers and such. Buffy is buffy, therefore anything she does in canon is in her "character".

About the whole sleeping with someone who loves her... who hasn't. Okay that makes me sound like a hoe, but I mean hasn't someone ever been in a situation where the other person liked you way more than you liked them. Sometimes it doesn't matter. Buffy had fun, and seemed to care that Satsu had fun, therefore she's not a huge bastard, kinda stupid in lacking forsight that this could make Satsu's love deepen, but she's not a jackass.
Click to expand...

That's the thing, 'cause it was very much like her using someone who loves her in season 6, even though she knew that it'd be, in the long run, hurting that someone that she wasn't yet in love with. Season 7 was all about becoming a leader and her learning to stop being a selfish (insert colorful language here that starts with a "b") woman. I know I've said this a lot, but it always come to mind when I'm reading season 8 and I compare: that smile at the end of "Chosen". It was so hopeful, so full of promise and maturity that I cried. Comparing that to season 8 just really makes me shake my head in disbelief.

There's actually a lot of things that were (okay, not a lot, but a few) that Buffy did in the show and in the comics that I found to be extremely non-canon.
 
W
willow23
I love the banner you have. Sarah McLachlan lyrics. I always assosiate that song witht Buffy/Spike.
Don't you think giving up a normal life now that she's not the only slayer and choosing to take care of those girls and lead them maturity? Buffy is facing the consequences of her actions in Chosen when she had Willow make every potential into a slayer. That changed the world and instead of running away and throwing that responsibility on someone else, Buffy chose to take it upon her shoulders. But you shouldn't expect this task to be easy. Buffy is gonna make a few mistakes and the fact that this greater responsibility is on her slender shoulders will change her (as we've already seen) it is also going to lead to her fall in the end of the season and perhaps she will be betrayed because she's drifting to the dark side... seeing how taking such a responsibility is too difficult even for an experienced slayer like Buffy.

The problem is you're treating her situation here like the previous seasons when they're not the same. Right now it's way worse, more pressure and more people to take care of. In the past seven seasons, Buffy only had demons against her. Now she has humans and demons against her. Buffy here is facing something bigger than she ever did before. That'll make the biggest hero slip once or twice or many times.
 
sosa lola said:
Don't you think giving up a normal life now that she's not the only slayer and choosing to take care of those girls and lead them maturity? Buffy is gonna make a few mistakes and the fact that this greater responsibility is on her slender shoulders will change her (as we've already seen) it is also going to lead to her fall in the end of the season and perhaps she will be betrayed because she's drifting to the dark side... seeing how taking such a responsibility is too difficult even for an experienced slayer like Buffy.

The problem is you're treating her situation here like the previous seasons when they're not the same. Right now it's way worse, more pressure and more people to take care of. In the past seven seasons, Buffy only had demons against her. Now she has humans and demons against her. Buffy here is facing something bigger than she ever did before. That'll make the biggest hero slip once or twice or many times.
Click to expand...

I don't think that she's being immature for leading the girls, but a lot of her is just really out of character. I wasn't one of those people that started hating the comics once she slept with Satsu, I already didn't like it since the beginning, and the entire thing with another Slayer just made me start laughing 'cause I thought it was a joke until I actually sat and reread and realized that it wasn't. There's so much already in this that's going on, where there's situations in which Buffy could be a lot more mature then she actually was being, but she's just being really un-Buffy throughout. Just because there's pressure doesn't mean that she has to be immature the entire time. Yes, one or two things is something that I as a fan can let pass, but one thing after another that doesn't stop is a bit too much. Buffy's already slipped enough when she was going through her phase through season six, and now it's not really like that all over again, it's worse.
 
W
willow23
We are really on the same wavelength about this.
Ellyce said:
Buffy's already slipped enough when she was going through her phase through season six, and now it's not really like that all over again, it's worse.
Click to expand...

In short, yes. I too am tired of the comparison to season 6 because it just isn't apt. There was build up in that narrative and Buffy's indiscretions were much more understandable.

sosa lola said:
As for Satsu, she took her by the hand and explained to her that having sex will not lead to anything further. I can see how that might hurt Satsu's feelings, but she still accepted. She had the option to say no, and if she did, I don't think Buffy would hold it against her.
Click to expand...

It's not that Buffy would hold it against her. She wouldn't. And of course Satsu had the option to say no. I just don't think that it is fair of Buffy to put Satsu in that position to begin with. Satsu is in love her and saying no to someone you love is difficult. I just think that this is very insensitive of Buffy's part.
 
I believe this season is setting us up to Buffy's fall in the end. She's doing lots of questionable things due to pressure. She's just doing what General Voll was afraid up. She's doing what Twilight is fighting against. Buffy thinks she's the law and that's what the government and Twilight are fighting. So I find this season interesting and very promising. I just hope it won't be like S7 where Buffy was being disrespectful to everyone that isn't Spike and still gets away with it by being right and everybody else is wrong, her supposed fall in Empty Places fell flat by bad writing. Like the writers are saying: the Scoobies and Potentials must be Buffy's lapdogs, if they're not, they'll be doomed. Hopefully this season will treat Buffy's fall better. That the writers won't be scared to have her be in the wrong for once.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree about it being out of character, Buffy breaking under pressure and making mistakes isn't far-fetched for me. It just makes her human.
 
C
Chase Summers
I like this viewpoint. It compliments with Joss's silly "No happy endings" policy
Ellyce said:
Mistakes make her human, but the same mistake three times over is a tad too much, don't you think?
Click to expand...

But each time, that mistake is done differently. With Xander, Buffy only danced with him to make Angel and Willow jealous as well as humiliate Xander. She wanted to hurt the three of them with one dance. With Spike, Buffy only wanted to feel and forced herself on Spike, who was willing to be used. With Satsu, Buffy had discussed having sex with her before they did it in which Satsu agreed to do it. Buffy's in-common mistake here is that she chose those who are in love with her to fulfill her need. While it's insensitive and stupid of her, it is not out of character.

Besides, Buffy wasn't the only character to repeat her mistakes. Almost all the characters do. Repeating a mistake is also human.
 
sosa lola said:
But each time, that mistake is done differently. With Spike, Buffy only wanted to feel and forced herself on Spike, who was willing to be used. With Satsu, Buffy had discussed having sex with her before they did it in which Satsu agreed to do it. Buffy's in-common mistake here is that she chose those who are in love with her to fulfill her need. While it's insensitive and stupid of her, it is not out of character. Besides, Buffy wasn't the only character to repeat her mistakes. Almost all the characters do. Repeating a mistake is also human.
Click to expand...

I get what viewpoint you're coming from, but I still don't agree. While the way of the mistake may be different, it still shows that she's a selfish and heartless (insertcolorfullanguagehere). All that maturity that she seemed to get in season seven has COMPLETELY disappeared this season, not only in this decision. It's a bad example for everyone else and it doesn't show her as different and good at all. Making mistakes is human, but now that she's made the same mistake so many times, it'd be better if she just stopped.
 
SL, can you remind me of where Satsu and Buffy talk about having sex before it happens? I can't remember where/when... I know Buffy talks to Satsu about NOT getting involved, which kind of breaks down into a therapy session for her, and also that they have a frank talk afterward in which Buffy lays out the complete and total truth. Is there another time they talk that I'm missing?
 
Ellyce, I agree with you that Buffy made a bad choice when she slept with Satsu. I'm just saying that I understand why she did it. Pressure in S7 had her acting like a bitch and forgetting the value of team-work, shouldn't she have learned that she can't do everything alone since high school years? But still, she makes mistakes and repeats them because no matter how you mature and grow you're still human and pressure gets to you.

I think she handled Satsu much better than how she handled Spike. And that's a step forwards.

La Luna Unita said:
SL, can you remind me of where Satsu and Buffy talk about having sex before it happens? I can't remember where/when... I know Buffy talks to Satsu about NOT getting involved, which kind of breaks down into a therapy session for her, and also that they have a frank talk afterward in which Buffy lays out the complete and total truth. Is there another time they talk that I'm missing?
Click to expand...

To be honest, it is assumed by fans. We don't know if Satsu initiated the flirting or if Buffy did it. I choose to believe that they had talked about have a one night stand without making a big deal out of it or telling anyone.
 
sosa lola said:
Ellyce, I agree with you that Buffy made a bad choice when she slept with Satsu. I'm just saying that I understand why she did it. Pressure in S7 had her acting like a bitch and forgetting the value of team-work, shouldn't she have learned that she can't do everything alone since high school years? But still, she makes mistakes and repeats them because no matter how you mature and grow you're still human and pressure gets to you.
Click to expand...

Haha, glad that you agree with me SL. 🙂 Ahhck, I can never oversay my statement, I suppose. True that she's made mistakes, we all know that, but to do them 57483909587438905783905783490543 times is a bit too much, especially after she's finally become what I can call a woman and mature.
 
You know, this little arc takes me back to season 5 when the Slayer Guide told Buffy that she would only lose her ability to love (and from inference fail as the Slayer) by rejecting love.

And uh, what has Buffy been doing consistently? Rejecting love. First Xander, Riley, Spike, Satsu, etc. I guess Riley is a cop out since Buffy demonstrated ultimate love by sacrificing her life for her sister and the world. But even now she is kinda rejecting Dawn.

Honestly, IMHO Buffy has no right to be complaining about being or feeling all alone. She seems to be rejecting love left and right. And the darn Guide told her to not reject love. I don't have much sympathy for Buffy right now. She's made her bed so to speak, now she can lie in it alone, as she seems so determined to do.

Then again, that floaty eye in season 7 implied that Buffy wasn't meant to live again. Maybe her unhappiness is further consequences from her living again. Essentially her friends negated her noble sacrifce by bringing her back.
 
BuffyElevated
BuffyElevated
Ooooh, I forgot about that! Thanks for bringing that up, 'cause I totally agree with what you're saying. GREAT point!
Ellyce said:
Haha, glad that you agree with me SL. 🙂
Click to expand...

Heee! Don't be too happy, I never said what Buffy did with Satsu was okay, only said that it's understandable seeing that she's under a lot of pressure. But it's not a good choice or the right one. 🙂
 
Here's another one I was wondering about. When people say a Batsu fling is not true to Buffy's character which season Buffy are they talking about?

Making it with a vampire Buffy of Season 2

Corruptible (at least for a short period) Buffy of season 3. And if people are so willing (as they often are) to accept a Faith with underlying lesbian attractions, how come Buffy gets a pass? Weren't both characters involved in what's often called the lesbian subtext of Season 3?

Silly girl willing to degrade herself over bad boy Parker Buffy of Season 4.

Ambivalent Buffy who can't commit to a good man in spite of believing that's what she wants, then regretting it once he's gone. What? That couldn't possibly lead to curiosity about what's on the other side?

Season 6 flirting with the darkness Buffy?

Cookie dough Buffy of Season 7?
 
C
Chase Summers
Good points you make dude
S
sosa lola
Nods in agreement.
L
La Luna Unita
It's so true. That girl's all over the map.
sosa lola said:
Heee! Don't be too happy, I never said what Buffy did with Satsu was okay, only said that it's understandable seeing that she's under a lot of pressure. But it's not a good choice or the right one. 🙂
Click to expand...

*giggle state* (Don't know why I keep on making funny happy dances) Hmm, I don't really find it understandable, I mean, to me, having a conversation about sex right before you have it is extermely unrealistic. And yayness on the not-good-choice! 🙂 : popcorn:
 
Ellyce said:
*giggle state* (Don't know why I keep on making funny happy dances) Hmm, I don't really find it understandable, I mean, to me, having a conversation about sex right before you have it is extermely unrealistic. And yayness on the not-good-choice! 🙂 : popcorn:
Click to expand...

*takes popcorn!!!* 😀

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that one. There are so many actions done by characters that I find to be bad choices yet still can understand why they did what they did. Like Giles teaming with Wood to kill Spike, it's understandable why he did it, but it wasn't a good decision on his part.
 
well, to be fair, Buffy IS only 23, you cant expect her to be totally mature, she makes mistakes, and she's been through alot. Okay, yeah, It was a selfesh thing to do, yeah, it was a mistake. But people make mistakes. And Buffy is still very young.
 
She is young and it was a mistake, but saying that someone is young doesn't absolve them of blame or of responsibility.
 
But why is everyone jumping on Buffys case?? We cant say for sure if its in her character or not. Dawn slept with her boyfriends friend yet no one is ready to call her a slut and use colorful language against her.

Besides that, people have sex casually all the time. Its natural.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom