Do Buffy's uh... personal choices... bother anyone else?

Cordelia Chase* said:
But why is everyone jumping on Buffys case?? We cant say for sure if its in her character or not. Dawn slept with her boyfriends friend yet no one is ready to call her a slut and use colorful language against her.

Besides that, people have sex casually all the time. Its natural.
Click to expand...

Haha, true, but it's a different situation with Dawn if you think about it. Not that I'm not going to jump on the wagon and be a bit pissed at Dawn, though.
 
Cordelia Chase* said:
But why is everyone jumping on Buffys case?? We cant say for sure if its in her character or not. Dawn slept with her boyfriends friend yet no one is ready to call her a slut and use colorful language against her.

Besides that, people have sex casually all the time. Its natural.
Click to expand...

Yes, but people who are known to have casual sex all the time are known as sluts or manwhores (in most people's opinions, anyway)... I don't want Buffy to start hopping in the sack with everyone she pleases. That's gross and I don't like to think of our girl as a big ho.
 
I agree that Dawn is a bit slutty there, though that isn't really the issue at hand. As for people having casual sex all the time, that really doesn't justify it. I know this is a moral judgment, but I just don't accept that as the way people should treat one another. Additionally, Buffy's is a special case, given the discrepancies between Satsu's feelings and her own.
 
willow23 said:
I agree that Dawn is a bit slutty there, though that isn't really the issue at hand. As for people having casual sex all the time, that really doesn't justify it. I know this is a moral judgment, but I just don't accept that as the way people should treat one another. Additionally, Buffy's is a special case, given the discrepancies between Satsu's feelings and her own.
Click to expand...

I'm confused, and maybe it's just a matter of different P.O.V.s, but how is Dawn slutty? I understood her sleeping with her boyfriend's roommate to be because she ended up having feelings for him. In all fairness I could very well have imagined that, but I could have sworn that that was the case or at least heavily implied. I mean those of us who aren't 18 or however old she is certainly remember the rush of emotions and the inability sometimes to control them. (And if ever the call of youthful indiscretions merited in a situation; Dawn's would be it). Once counts as a mistake (in benefit of the doubt world), Buffy is a repeat offender in using people, and yet still, she isn't slutty or a slut in my book. She's just insensitive and borders on cruel. (I recall her telling Spike that he was beneath her, fully well knowing how he felt about her, and after he opened up to her. Sure, he was telling how he killed Slayers, but he showed a vunerable side of himself to her when he told her about his rejection- the most important rejection of his mortal life because it came to define his entire existence)

To me a slut or manwhore is someone who bed hops repeatedly with no regard to the other's feelings or juggles several sexual partners- again with no regard to emotions. In fact a slut/manwhore is someone whose primary reason for socializing would be purely for the sake of sleeping with someone to fulfill the offending party's selfish void.

The point is: Buffy is making the same mistakes over and again. So nerd4hire is completely correct in his argument that Buffy is NOT out of character. She has and is still making poor moral judgements when it comes to her personal life. By sleeping with Satsu she violated her post as general of this army, but most importantly she knowingly slept with someone whom she didn't love not once, but twice now thus demonsrating that rather growing and maturing and learning from past mistakes, she hasn't done any of those things. And that to me is what is most disappointing.

She has become Parker Abrams. I mean it's not exactly the same thing, but in the same ball park. She did tell Satsu she didn't love her, and we can assume that Satsu was like "Whatever, we can just have fun." But Buffy tells Satsu it was the best night of her life afterwards, and still maintains that she isn't gay and can't love Satsu like that. AND STILL sleeps with her AGAIN! I don't know about anyone else, but if I sleep with someone and they tell me it was the best night of their life, then a) I'm really good at what I do (LOL) or b) that cat is going beyond the whole "I'm not blah blah and it's just a thing, thing. Thus implying there could be more. In the real world we all call this as intentionally leading a person on. Which is is what Parker and Buffy have in common.
 
I agree that the Fawn situation isn't the same thing. I don't think what Dawn did was right, but I can understand why she did is more so than with Buffy. Buffy's actions aren't really defensible. As for the out of character thing, you don't think it is a bit strange that all of a sudden Buffy is jumping into bed with a woman after years of being straight, with no build up toward it?
 
willow23 said:
Buffy's actions aren't really defensible. As for the out of character thing, you don't think it is a bit strange that all of a sudden Buffy is jumping into bed with a woman after years of being straight, with no build up toward it?
Click to expand...

Exactly! I had no idea that that was coming, even though I saw the whole Satsu crushing on her thing right away. *sighs* What a terrible path my hero has taken.
 
You didn't scare me 🙂 But I got tired of repeating myself. I think what Buffy did to Satsu is way better than what she did with Spike. It's still wrong, but I can sympathize with her. Same with Xander in Hell's Bells. His action was wrong, but I sympathize with him. And, no, Buffy sleeping with Satsu isn't out of character.

There 😀
 
sosa lola said:
You didn't scare me 🙂 But I got tired of repeating myself. I think what Buffy did to Satsu is way better than what she did with Spike. It's still wrong, but I can sympathize with her. Same with Xander in Hell's Bells. His action was wrong, but I sympathize with him. And, no, Buffy sleeping with Satsu isn't out of character.

There 😀
Click to expand...

Hee hee, glad I tired you. 😛 I think it's wrong but I don't sympathize with her at all, and I still think that it's incredibly out of character. Xander I did feel sorry for. I didn't like what he did but I understood his choice and couldn't condemn him for it. This is a completely different situation, though, and AHHHCKCKCKCKCK! 😛
 
Awww, poor Buffy. 🙁 Doesn't it count that the girl has even more responsibilities on her shoulders than she ever had before?
 
Hooray, I just read about Buffy and Satsu and needless to say I was a smidge confused. Okay, so I know supposedly Buffy is not gay but sex with a girl seems kind of outta left field. Did I miss something because it was like all of a sudden they are doing it. I am so confused.
 
hannahfngrl26 said:
Hooray, I just read about Buffy and Satsu and needless to say I was a smidge confused. Okay, so I know supposedly Buffy is not gay but sex with a girl seems kind of outta left field. Did I miss something because it was like all of a sudden they are doing it. I am so confused.
Click to expand...

Another thing we agree on, hun! 🙂 Yeah, I felt it to be incredibly forced and extremely out of character. Not like her at al and a HUGE step back from the maturity level that she gained in season seven.
 
In reading all three back to back I was finally able to figure out that it was Satsu who woke Buffy up from the nightmare dream thing which I totally did not get at first. In re-reading their dialogue I can see where maybe Buffy was headed in that direction but still. Yeah. Wow. I dont get it. Also, what is with Willow wanting Buffy all of a sudden and calling her cutie and stuff. I dont like it. What is happening?
 
hannahfngrl26 said:
In reading all three back to back I was finally able to figure out that it was Satsu who woke Buffy up from the nightmare dream thing which I totally did not get at first. In re-reading their dialogue I can see where maybe Buffy was headed in that direction but still. Yeah. Wow. I dont get it. Also, what is with Willow wanting Buffy all of a sudden and calling her cutie and stuff. I dont like it. What is happening?
Click to expand...


*sighs* <== not at your thoughts, but at what happened. I honestly don't know what the hell happened to Buffy.... *sighs*
 
Ellyce said:
*laughs* True, but my respect for her has diminished as has her place as my role model and hero.
Click to expand...


After this post, I'd like to defend Buffy.
Only cause Season 8 has actually increased "her place as my role model and hero." (as well as the rest of the Scooby Gang). They're all grown up and still don't know what the hell's going on. Even Giles screwed up again. I find that to be an admirable trait especially in superheroes (ie. the entire scooby gang). They're people...they're still learning...and growing and have all this human stuff to deal with....and then the weight of the world on their shoulders? I'm surprised Buffy hasn't killed herself yet...(oh wait, she has).

Still, she's out there. She's fighting. I reread the Long Way Home last night and there's still so much heart to her character. She loves Willow/Xander/Dawn so much. And she's really become quite the scrappy little leader. Granted, she's stealing money and sleeping with young clueless girls. But she's human. She's real. And that's what I like about the girl. Cause everytime I f*ck up in my own life....I can step away from it and in my contemplations I think "Well, ya know Buffy surely has screwed up too and she's still moving forward...she's still fighting." And that's more than I can say for this unreachable unrealistic ideal heroes that we place so much merit on. Buffy's the real deal. Like she said in "the Gift." She's just a girl. She has a lot of learning to do. And I'm so happy that I can relate to a fictional character that way and maybe learn a little bit with her.

As far as her acting out of character...I don't see it. She's the same self-absorbed, caring, alienated, angsty, loving, kind girl she's always been. Just because she's not Sarah Michelle Gellar's ideal woman doesn't mean she's out of character. So, she's grown. Her entire perspective has changed throughout...almost a decade of being a Slayer. She's been a little hardened. Now, she's a little jaded. Didn't her mom die leaving her responsible for her 15 year old sister and a finances? Wasn't she ripped out of eternal peace? Oh and didn't she stop the world from being sucked into hell by killing her soulmate? As Faith has said that puts Buffy in the "plus column" (and Faith for that matter). So she's all big pictury and insenstive...she's going to learn a lot this season 8. Like maybe using a girl whose in love with you isn't the smartest thing in the world, no matter how horny you are. And maybe just MAYBE Buffy is a little attracted to Satsu cause you know...it was Satsu's kiss that "woke her up" (think about it) after Willow had mentioned how tired she looked.

One of the reasons I love Season 8 is the mystery. None of the characters have surprised me with their evolutions....plus we have a whole year missing.
Xander had proven himself to be responsible for Buffy's life + all the potentials loved him...so after years of being the butt monkey...he's a Watcher. I think it's awesome and surprising after Dawn/Willow were always made out to be the future Watchers.
Willow after a brief stint as a goddess is all screwed up from that? Not surprising at all. Plus she changed the world? And is questioning that? Girl's gonna be screwy.
And Buffy is the same tragic hero she's always been....just with new challenges. Sure her perspective has changed since she was a pre-death sixteen year old with frosty lipstick...that's just part of the journey.

..and I can't wait to see where it leads her...and us for that matter.

Personally, I think when the entire season ties together a lot of the lightbulb's going to appear above so many of our heads.
 
B
Blair Waldorf-Bass
Explanation below
S
sosa lola
Amazing post!!! It's nice to see someone, other than me, who recognizes that Buffy made a mistake and yet understand why.
wehappyfew said:
After this post, I'd like to defend Buffy.
Only cause Season 8 has actually increased "her place as my role model and hero." (as well as the rest of the Scooby Gang). They're all grown up and still don't know what the hell's going on. Even Giles screwed up again. I find that to be an admirable trait especially in superheroes (ie. the entire scooby gang). They're people...they're still learning...and growing and have all this human stuff to deal with....and then the weight of the world on their shoulders? I'm surprised Buffy hasn't killed herself yet...(oh wait, she has).

Still, she's out there. She's fighting. I reread the Long Way Home last night and there's still so much heart to her character. She loves Willow/Xander/Dawn so much. And she's really become quite the scrappy little leader. Granted, she's stealing money and sleeping with young clueless girls. But she's human. She's real. And that's what I like about the girl. Cause everytime I f*ck up in my own life....I can step away from it and in my contemplations I think "Well, ya know Buffy surely has screwed up too and she's still moving forward...she's still fighting." And that's more than I can say for this unreachable unrealistic ideal heroes that we place so much merit on. Buffy's the real deal. Like she said in "the Gift." She's just a girl. She has a lot of learning to do. And I'm so happy that I can relate to a fictional character that way and maybe learn a little bit with her.

As far as her acting out of character...I don't see it. She's the same self-absorbed, caring, alienated, angsty, loving, kind girl she's always been. Just because she's not Sarah Michelle Gellar's ideal woman doesn't mean she's out of character. So, she's grown. Her entire perspective has changed throughout...almost a decade of being a Slayer. She's been a little hardened. Now, she's a little jaded. Didn't her mom die leaving her responsible for her 15 year old sister and a finances? Wasn't she ripped out of eternal peace? Oh and didn't she stop the world from being sucked into hell by killing her soulmate? As Faith has said that puts Buffy in the "plus column" (and Faith for that matter). So she's all big pictury and insenstive...she's going to learn a lot this season 8. Like maybe using a girl whose in love with you isn't the smartest thing in the world, no matter how horny you are. And maybe just MAYBE Buffy is a little attracted to Satsu cause you know...it was Satsu's kiss that "woke her up" (think about it) after Willow had mentioned how tired she looked.

One of the reasons I love Season 8 is the mystery. None of the characters have surprised me with their evolutions....plus we have a whole year missing.
Xander had proven himself to be responsible for Buffy's life + all the potentials loved him...so after years of being the butt monkey...he's a Watcher. I think it's awesome and surprising after Dawn/Willow were always made out to be the future Watchers.
Willow after a brief stint as a goddess is all screwed up from that? Not surprising at all. Plus she changed the world? And is questioning that? Girl's gonna be screwy.
And Buffy is the same tragic hero she's always been....just with new challenges. Sure her perspective has changed since she was a pre-death sixteen year old with frosty lipstick...that's just part of the journey.

..and I can't wait to see where it leads her...and us for that matter.

Personally, I think when the entire season ties together a lot of the lightbulb's going to appear above so many of our heads.
Click to expand...

I have to disagree. Firstly, Buffy's grown highly immature this season. Fighting with Giles, fighting with everyone else...

There was so much hope for her in that last smile in "Chosen", the comics seriously degraded her role as my once-role model. Buffy is no longer "just a girl." At the end of "Chosen," she was truly a woman, and a mature one at that.

It's not that I stopped liking her after "Wolves at the Gate." Her erosion happened long before that. Her choice to sleep with Satsu just tells everyone else, "Hey, come sleep with the head boss and you can all get premoted to a good position!" What kind of message is that sending to the other thousand Slayer out there? Now all they think is that they have to sleep their way up the ranks, and that's definitely not the message that I ever want to have from someone who should be my role model.

Using someone who's in love with you and while you aren't is DEFINITELY NOT acceptable. Buffy really seemed to learn this after Riley and especially Spike, and she said in season seven that she's not like that anymore. Just because she's hungry for sex and a good lay DOES NOT mean she should just go ahead and do so. I find it ridiculous, out of character, and unacceptable that Buffy seems to have forgotten what she's learned and matured from. This was really the last straw for me; I've found them so disappointing that I've stopped reading them.

Until I hear or see that Buffy's matured in season 8 or gone back to the hopefulness that she gave us at the end of season seven, I'll spend my time with the fantastic and well-written Angel and Spike comics.
 
I really wasn't fond of how the Buffy/Satsu relationship was executed, but all I will say is this - especially to those who think that Buffy in Season 8 isn't the same Buffy from "Chosen" -

Just because someone hits a point in their life where they have probably found who they really are, DOESN'T mean that they're going to be perfect from now on. Yes, Buffy in "Chosen" was a matured and smarter Buffy, but that doesn't mean that she's DONE maturing. All through our lives we make mistakes, even the same ones twice, but we learn from them. And still we continue to make mistakes and bad choices.

Also, think of it this way: Buffy sleeping with Satsu may have been a mistake to us, but not to her. You have to see it from Buffy's point of view.

Buffy was horny. A hot girl comes along and happens to love her. They both talk it over, tell each other honestly where they stand. And later, they decide to act on their impulses, knowing the consequences. Buffy on one hand thinks well of it, but on the other hand, we have Satsu who feels she needs to stay in Japan to get over Buffy, which is completely understandable. The way I see it, it wasn't Buffy's mistake. It was more of Satsu's. Buffy told her that she wasn't in love with her, but Satsu still slept with Buffy. And Satsu KNEW why Buffy went along with it.

Okay I'm done with that part.
So do I think sleeping with Satsu was out of character? Absolutely. But not the one-night stand part. I just NEVER would have thought Buffy would swing that way. I mean think about it... Can you HONESTLY picture this event happening on TV? If Season 8 were televised, can you really picture Sarah Michelle Gellar as Buffy doing this?
 
Da Letter Jay said:
I really wasn't fond of how the Buffy/Satsu relationship was executed, but all I will say is this - especially to those who think that Buffy in Season 8 isn't the same Buffy from "Chosen" -

Just because someone hits a point in their life where they have probably found who they really are, DOESN'T mean that they're going to be perfect from now on. Yes, Buffy in "Chosen" was a matured and smarter Buffy, but that doesn't mean that she's DONE maturing. All through our lives we make mistakes, even the same ones twice, but we learn from them. And still we continue to make mistakes and bad choices.

Also, think of it this way: Buffy sleeping with Satsu may have been a mistake to us, but not to her. You have to see it from Buffy's point of view.

Buffy was horny. A hot girl comes along and happens to love her. They both talk it over, tell each other honestly where they stand. And later, they decide to act on their impulses, knowing the consequences. Buffy on one hand thinks well of it, but on the other hand, we have Satsu who feels she needs to stay in Japan to get over Buffy, which is completely understandable. The way I see it, it wasn't Buffy's mistake. It was more of Satsu's. Buffy told her that she wasn't in love with her, but Satsu still slept with Buffy. And Satsu KNEW why Buffy went along with it.

Okay I'm done with that part.
So do I think sleeping with Satsu was out of character? Absolutely. But not the one-night stand part. I just NEVER would have thought Buffy would swing that way. I mean think about it... Can you HONESTLY picture this event happening on TV? If Season 8 were televised, can you really picture Sarah Michelle Gellar as Buffy doing this?
Click to expand...

I never said that Buffy was perfect at the end of season seven or that I expected her to be at the end of "Chosen." That's the thing, though. Buffy's already made the same mistake twice. With Riley and with Spike. I know I've already said that, but honestly? This is the, what? Third time? And she's already learned from Parker, so you could, technically, call it the fourth.

I'm trying to see it from Buffy's point of view but can't really. I'm really glad that Satsu's not hanging with Buffy anymore, and that Satsu should get over Buffy fast and quick. Satsu was probably the most annoying character (after Kennedy, of course and Rona comes after Satsu) that I've come across in the entire series. Don't get me wrong, I'm not homophobic or racist; I'm half-Asian (biological mother's Asian, biological father is white.). I just found her to be extremely annoying and it was pretty obvious early on that she was in love with Buffy. I think she would've been much better for Kennedy, they fit each other so well and Willow definitely deserves better. (Tillow, anyone?)

Yeah, glad to hear that you think it's out of character as well. I could NEVER see SMG doing this during season 8, and I highly doubt season 8 would've gone this way if it was won television. I have several lesbian and bisexual friends who would love to jump into bed with Buffy, but when they read this they said, "Uh... what?". They all said the way it was done was completely out of character and that Buffy would NEVER get in bed with a woman. I mean, when you have people saying that this is completely out of character, and so many fans that usually disagree on issues all agreeing on this, it's got to be out of character.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom