Do You Believe He Actually Loved Her?

[Kean]

All of the above would be wonderful except for a truth so consistent that it might just as well be a law of nature: No matter how intense, how mind, heart, and spirit consuming a first love may be, (and I have said before that I have no doubt that Angel and Buffy were in love and that it was a first love for each of them) first loves almost never lead to lifetime partnerships. Cling to that "almost" if you want to, but the truth remains that Angel has a better chance of getting a sun tan than he does of spending his life with Buffy. Cling to the Shanshue prophesy too, it's your only hope.

Go and find a dozen typical happily married couples and ask them if their partners were their first loves. Ask fifty, or a hundred couples, and the answer will be the same: First loves are wonderful, but their major purpose is to prepare us for our REAL loves, the ones who, ideally, are the ones we are to spend our lives with. I still have feelings for my first love, and any honest person will say the same thing, but as much as I loved her, I wouldn't trade the love that I have now for a dozen of her. That's what REAL love is.

Does Buffy love Angel? I have no doubt of it. Does Buffy love Spike? I have no doubt of that either. Will she spend her life with either one of them? That remains for th ALL Powerful Joss to decide, but I believe that if the answer is yes, then the one she is ultimately with will almost certainly be Spike, not because their love is any more real than that shared by Buffy and Angel in earlier times, but simply because their love is the love shared by two adults.

If you give me a Buffy and Angel get another chance as adults and it doesn't work out then ok maybe I could go along with it. But that hasn't happened so there is NO WAY that I will EVER go along with what you said up there.

Belittleing what they had just because it was the first time either had been in love? I just don't understand it. What they had was REAL. Probably the most REAL feelings either has ever felt for another. I know first love doesn't always last but quite frankly alot of times neither does second and third. The order in which you fall in love has no real reflection on the feeling it creates.
I have a question for ya, do you think what Spike and Dru had was REAL love?

 

[white avenger]

If you give me a Buffy and Angel get another chance as adults and it doesn't work out then ok maybe I could go along with it. But that hasn't happened so there is NO WAY that I will EVER go along with what you said up there.

Belittleing what they had just because it was the first time either had been in love? I just don't understand it. What they had was REAL. Probably the most REAL feelings either has ever felt for another. I know first love doesn't always last but quite frankly alot of times neither does second and third. The order in which you fall in love has no real reflection on the feeling it creates.
I have a question for ya, do you think what Spike and Dru had was REAL love?

It was not my intention to "belittle" anything that Buffy and Angel had. I was merely pointing out that first loves are very rarely only loves or even greatest loves, and, based on what they have at the moment, what Buffy shares with Angel has less of a chance to develop into a permanent relationship than what she has with Spike. Ultimately, we both know that, given Joss' sadistic nature and the joy he takes in hearing his fans scream "NOOOOO!!" in anguished tones, Buffy will most likely end up marrying a resurrected Jonathan.

As for William and Drusilla, I believe that they shared that most tragic of relationships: He loved her, but she never had any concept of what love really is.

 

[Kean]

Buffy will most likely end up marrying a resurrected Jonathan.

What is she Saint Buffy!?! He's like three feet tall!!....couldn't resist.


Sorry for snapping up there...alot of crazyness going on and well you messed with my Bangel:no:

My sincere apologies😀

 

[white avenger]

You didn't snap, Miss K, you just answered my post. Good answer,too. No apologies necessary.

If it'll make you feel any better, you can mess with my Spuffy any time the mood strikes you. Just be gentle, I've had some bad experiences.

 

[Jules]

I started reading the posts but then they got so long that I only skim read them, so apologies if this point has already been made.

Buffy and Angel had an all consuming love in seasons 1-3. Buffy said it her self in the episode ''Rad Eggs'' that when she looked into the future all she saw was him, all she wanted was him and he dittoed that feeling. Fast forward to 4 years later. Buffy died in Season 5, and Angel learned that her death wouldn't destroy him. He survived and it was ok for him to continuing fighting without her. Buffy has had to go through many things on her own, she says to Angel in ''I Will Remember You'' that's she's a big girl and can look after herself. All true.

So with their separation their loved changed, it matured but I don't think it became anything less. It was just more adult than teenage love.

 

[Kean]

I started reading the posts but then they got so long that I only skim read them, so apologies if this point has already been made.

Buffy and Angel had an all consuming love in seasons 1-3. Buffy said it her self in the episode ''Rad Eggs'' that when she looked into the future all she saw was him, all she wanted was him and he dittoed that feeling. Fast forward to 4 years later. Buffy died in Season 5, and Angel learned that her death wouldn't destroy him. He survived and it was ok for him to continuing fighting without her. Buffy has had to go through many things on her own, she says to Angel in ''I Will Remember You'' that's she's a big girl and can look after herself. All true.

So with their separation their loved changed, it matured but I don't think it became anything less. It was just more adult than teenage love.

Which they displayed in the end of season 7...their feelings for each other were still clearly there but they had both grown up and weren't each other's main focus anymore. Doesn't mean the love wasn't still there

 

[palabravampiress]

But do you guys think the Buffy/Angel relationship would have worked post season 7?

In theory, there was nothing stopping a reunion in season 5 of Angel (aside from SMG wanting to leave Buffy). No longer burdened with the weight of the world, Buffy could go be a normal girl for awhile. She could go back to school. She could get a job. She could slay or train slayers... if she so chose (I believe she would have chosen to do so). Not even Spike would have been in her way, as she thought he was dead. After about a year of this "baking," she could realize that she was a capable adult after all and seek Angel out for his finale.

At that time, Angel was busy taking on the Black Thorn. Buffy would have been thrown for a loop when she found that Spike was alive, so let's pretend he wasn't. Would Buffy have approved of and/or participated in the plan to take down the Black Thorn? How would Buffy have felt about Connor and the memory mix up? Would she understand the fight-the-system-from-within approach behind taking over W&H? Basically, what I'm asking is would Buffy fit into Angel's life as we see it near the end of season 5? She is, in theory, relatively free of her burdens. The Hellmouth is closed. There are slayers everywhere. Like the rest of us, she can pick and choose where to apply her talents. Angel, however is bound by his contract with W&H as well as by his duty to the Powers and the curse on his soul. She'd have to be the one to go to him, then. Given all of these obligations, I don't see Angel's predicament changing very drastically within Buffy's lifetime. So I'm asking: how would Buffy have fit into Angel's life as it stands near the end of season 5?

I don't have the answer, but I think that's the key to determining whether or not their feelings can be taken into the land of the functioning relationship.

 

[angeldork]

In conjunction to what White Avenger had posted that we'd see Buffy spend the rest of her life with Spike than with Angel because her love with Spike is an adult one. The way I see it, the only reason why Buffy started having this whole friends with benefits thing was Spike was so she could try and fill a void/emptiness that she was feeling at the time. Then let's not forget about the time that Spike tried to rape her. I've seen their dynamic since then and I really don't think that she's in love with him. And I'm just saying this because I'm a big Bangel fan and I think they will end up together in the end. But Spike in a way became a rock for her, although that's very hard for me to believe. She does love him but she would never choose Spike over Angel any day of the week. Let's face it anyone else is just gonna be second best to Angel. Nobody ever chooses their second best unless the first is dead.

 

[Junostar]

I don't know, but what I do know is, that it was ludicrous how Buffy started involving herself with Spike and Angel getting good with Cordelia. That there totally turned me away from the shows.

 

[VisionGuy]

I don't know, but what I do know is, that it was ludicrous how Buffy started involving herself with Spike and Angel getting good with Cordelia. That there totally turned me away from the shows.

I think that having them move on and experience love with other people was a great idea. It made both Buffy and Angel grow as characters.

 

[Blondie Bear]

I think that having them move on and experience love with other people was a great idea. It made both Buffy and Angel grow as characters.

The thing is that they didn't really move on. Angel was having the cookie-dough talk with Buffy while Cordy was in a coma. Buffy went back to Spike after Angel left. They were both hanging on to the relationship even though they knew they couldn't have it right then. It made it feel like Cordy and Spike were just placeholders. Which isn't healthy or fair to Cordy and Spike.

 

[palabravampiress]

I have never been a fan of the cookie dough scene. It seemed really out of place. I mean, first of all, Cordy was in a coma. Angel just up and left coma girl to talk to Buffy about how much he wanted to be with her. That's just... God! He's such a jerk! Given what was happening in AtS at that moment, it didn't make sense that Angel would show up and make with the mate guarding. I try not to base my predictions for the future on that scene. I feel like it was a "throw-a-bone-to-the-Angel-fans" scene. If it hadn't been the end of the series, I don't think it would have happened. It felt out of place and very forced. If they're gonna have that maybe forever talk, then Buffy needs to be clear on a few things about Angel: that he's in love with Cordy, that he has a son, and that he's CEO of Hell Incorporated all among them. The cookie dough scene was about paying tribute to the past, not about considering the realities of their present and future situations, including the immense likelihood that Buffy was going to die the next day. I don't think Cordy and Spike were just placeholders. They weren't treated that way on their respective shows, at least. I just think the cookie dough scene treated them that way because it was a craptastic, shallow, let's-have-David-in-for-one-last-appearance sort of scene.



And is no one going to answer my question about whether or not or how Buffy could have or would have fit into Angel's life? I was really counting on a Bangel fan to come up with something workable for that one.

 

[Kean]

But do you guys think the Buffy/Angel relationship would have worked post season 7?

In theory, there was nothing stopping a reunion in season 5 of Angel (aside from SMG wanting to leave Buffy). No longer burdened with the weight of the world, Buffy could go be a normal girl for awhile. She could go back to school. She could get a job. She could slay or train slayers... if she so chose (I believe she would have chosen to do so). Not even Spike would have been in her way, as she thought he was dead. After about a year of this "baking," she could realize that she was a capable adult after all and seek Angel out for his finale.

At that time, Angel was busy taking on the Black Thorn. Buffy would have been thrown for a loop when she found that Spike was alive, so let's pretend he wasn't. Would Buffy have approved of and/or participated in the plan to take down the Black Thorn? How would Buffy have felt about Connor and the memory mix up? Would she understand the fight-the-system-from-within approach behind taking over W&H? Basically, what I'm asking is would Buffy fit into Angel's life as we see it near the end of season 5? She is, in theory, relatively free of her burdens. The Hellmouth is closed. There are slayers everywhere. Like the rest of us, she can pick and choose where to apply her talents. Angel, however is bound by his contract with W&H as well as by his duty to the Powers and the curse on his soul. She'd have to be the one to go to him, then. Given all of these obligations, I don't see Angel's predicament changing very drastically within Buffy's lifetime. So I'm asking: how would Buffy have fit into Angel's life as it stands near the end of season 5?

I don't have the answer, but I think that's the key to determining whether or not their feelings can be taken into the land of the functioning relationship.

Ok since you asked bellow I'm going to try and come with some answers for your question. Now remember that I am Kean, Queen of Bangel Shipperness, and this may require all you non-believers to stretch the imagination an insy winsy bit.

Ok folks hop on the Bangel Train...

In your scenario Buffy is all baked up, her little timer has gone off and she is finally Angel Cookies. To me that means she wuld have spent the year considering all the options open to her, and found that having Angel in her life, in anyway she could get him, is better than anything else she could do. And lets face it she could do ANYTHING. In your scenario she picks Angel so to me that would say that she will take him any way she can, Evil Inc. and all.

How would she feel about Connor? Hurt, really hurt is my guess, but only for a while. I think it would take her time to get past the jealousy of someone else having Angel's baby, the stinging slap in the face that it was Darla and the irrational anger at Angel for not telling her and for daring to look at another woman never mind sleep with them. Once she saw how much Angel loved the kid, the Greek Tragedy that was the childs life and what Angel had to do give Connor a 'normal' existence I think alot of her anger would subside. Also I think she would identify with him because she essentially feels the same way about Dawn and has being playing Mom to her longer than Joyce ever ctually did.

Would she be down with W&H? Not with the company itself. I think the place would make her skin crawl but she trusts Angel despite what Andrew and Giles want us to think. If he explained why he was doing it I think she would go along with it because she knows him better than most regardless of their time apart and if he says he was doing it to try and do good I honestly think she would believe him.

The Blackthorn I think she would be for and against. If she knew he was signing away his Shanshu I think she would she that as him saying he didn't want to be with her and she would throw a fit. I think she would come to some not so nice realisations that Angel's world wasn't focused on her anymore and that he had a job to do much like her. I think her initial reaction would be to freak out out of hurt and fear of losing him but she would back him up. I have no doubt about that.


Now you can call that wishfull hoping,a fan wank, whatever but for me this is what would happen if the characters were staying true to themselves and the the show.

 

[alexa]

Angel and Buffy always slip in and out of eachother's lives rather well in my opinion. The scene in Forever and Chosen are really great at illustrating the connection they have. Undeniable. 😉 I'd love for him to show up in season 8 somehow for a brief period anyway while he's in his own book.
But for the title of the thread of course Angel loved Buffy.. what show were you watching? 😛 I don't think you show up and make out with your ex and ask if she thinks about a future with you if you don't...

 

[palabravampiress]

Ok since you asked bellow I'm going to try and come with some answers for your question. Now remember that I am Kean, Queen of Bangel Shipperness, and this may require all you non-believers to stretch the imagination an insy winsy bit.

Ok folks hop on the Bangel Train...

In your scenario Buffy is all baked up, her little timer has gone off and she is finally Angel Cookies. To me that means she wuld have spent the year considering all the options open to her, and found that having Angel in her life, in anyway she could get him, is better than anything else she could do. And lets face it she could do ANYTHING. In your scenario she picks Angel so to me that would say that she will take him any way she can, Evil Inc. and all.

How would she feel about Connor? Hurt, really hurt is my guess, but only for a while. I think it would take her time to get past the jealousy of someone else having Angel's baby, the stinging slap in the face that it was Darla and the irrational anger at Angel for not telling her and for daring to look at another woman never mind sleep with them. Once she saw how much Angel loved the kid, the Greek Tragedy that was the childs life and what Angel had to do give Connor a 'normal' existence I think alot of her anger would subside. Also I think she would identify with him because she essentially feels the same way about Dawn and has being playing Mom to her longer than Joyce ever ctually did.

Would she be down with W&H? Not with the company itself. I think the place would make her skin crawl but she trusts Angel despite what Andrew and Giles want us to think. If he explained why he was doing it I think she would go along with it because she knows him better than most regardless of their time apart and if he says he was doing it to try and do good I honestly think she would believe him.

The Blackthorn I think she would be for and against. If she knew he was signing away his Shanshu I think she would she that as him saying he didn't want to be with her and she would throw a fit. I think she would come to some not so nice realisations that Angel's world wasn't focused on her anymore and that he had a job to do much like her. I think her initial reaction would be to freak out out of hurt and fear of losing him but she would back him up. I have no doubt about that.


Now you can call that wishfull hoping,a fan wank, whatever but for me this is what would happen if the characters were staying true to themselves and the the show.

This sounds like about a season's worth of development to me. lol. I would watch this season and be really and truly intrigued, of course. I just don't think it can all be taken care of at the end in a grand, Buffy-shows-up-for-the-finale sort of ending after she spends a year baking. For this scenario to have time to play out, I think she'd need to be season 5's replacement Spike.

I totally agree about Connor. I think she would be hurt, but then she'd come around.

I'm not so sure that I think Buffy would go along with W&H against her better judgment just because she trusts Angel. Or maybe I just don't want her to do so. I mean, she wouldn't kill Ben even when she knew he was (or contained) Glory. She wouldn't kill Spike even though The First was using him as its puppet. Buffy is a remarkably principled woman. By working for W&H, Angel & Co. are walking a tightrope that Buffy has never felt comfortable walking. They're doing things that they find morally wrong, but they're doing them for the greater good. That's not Buffy. I don't want Buffy to just go along with what Angel says. I hate it when she does that! lol. I'd like to think that by this stage in her life and in their relationship, Buffy has finally developed the self-confidence to demand to be treated as an equal in the relationship -- and that may mean asking Angel to make some compromises and/or sacrifices for her for a change.

I think it more likely that they'd agree to disagree. I think he'd keep doing what he does and she'd keep doing what she does, (sometimes working at cross-purposes) but that they'd leave that at the door when they were together (at some neutral place, like maybe an apartment in Pasadena or a little yacht down at Marina Del Rey. Sometimes, they'd even clash. I would much rather see this agree-to-disagree dynamic than another Buffy-does-what-Angel-says-because-he-lassoed-the-moon dynamic.

As far as the Black Thorn plot goes... I actually think that would have been a whole lot more interesting if Buffy had been in the picture. Let's face it... the Black Thorn was trying to test his loyalty when they asked him to kill Drogyn and sign away the Shanshu. If Buffy had been around, they would have asked him to kill Buffy - maybe even by drinking her or turning her. Like Buffy season 2, only in reverse! It would have been awesome! I won't pretend to know how that would have ended, but I think it would have been great.

Anyway, go you with your great answers, Keanoite!

What do you think about the curse? How would they have resolved that issue?

 

[Blondie Bear]

I always thought that Willow should be able to come up with some way to return Angel's soul WITHOUT the gypsy curse. Especially after having to do it three times.

 

[Kean]

This sounds like about a season's worth of development to me. lol. I would watch this season and be really and truly intrigued, of course. I just don't think it can all be taken care of at the end in a grand, Buffy-shows-up-for-the-finale sort of ending after she spends a year baking. For this scenario to have time to play out, I think she'd need to be season 5's replacement Spike.

I totally agree about Connor. I think she would be hurt, but then she'd come around.

I'm not so sure that I think Buffy would go along with W&H against her better judgment just because she trusts Angel. Or maybe I just don't want her to do so. I mean, she wouldn't kill Ben even when she knew he was (or contained) Glory. She wouldn't kill Spike even though The First was using him as its puppet. Buffy is a remarkably principled woman. By working for W&H, Angel & Co. are walking a tightrope that Buffy has never felt comfortable walking. They're doing things that they find morally wrong, but they're doing them for the greater good. That's not Buffy. I don't want Buffy to just go along with what Angel says. I hate it when she does that! lol. I'd like to think that by this stage in her life and in their relationship, Buffy has finally developed the self-confidence to demand to be treated as an equal in the relationship -- and that may mean asking Angel to make some compromises and/or sacrifices for her for a change.

I think it more likely that they'd agree to disagree. I think he'd keep doing what he does and she'd keep doing what she does, (sometimes working at cross-purposes) but that they'd leave that at the door when they were together (at some neutral place, like maybe an apartment in Pasadena or a little yacht down at Marina Del Rey. Sometimes, they'd even clash. I would much rather see this agree-to-disagree dynamic than another Buffy-does-what-Angel-says-because-he-lassoed-the-moon dynamic.

As far as the Black Thorn plot goes... I actually think that would have been a whole lot more interesting if Buffy had been in the picture. Let's face it... the Black Thorn was trying to test his loyalty when they asked him to kill Drogyn and sign away the Shanshu. If Buffy had been around, they would have asked him to kill Buffy - maybe even by drinking her or turning her. Like Buffy season 2, only in reverse! It would have been awesome! I won't pretend to know how that would have ended, but I think it would have been great.

Anyway, go you with your great answers, Keanoite!

What do you think about the curse? How would they have resolved that issue?

I agee about the the scenaio having moe of a season long arc about it, no way would this happen fast and efficiently. I mean it's Bangel! at least 3/4 of the season would be angst!

I'm not too happy with my answer now...it was a bit of a rush job last night. I'm torn on the W&H issue. I think your musing that she would do her thing while he did his sounds more plausible. Buffy is, well, Buffy The Vampie Slayer. Emphasis one the THE. She isn't going play second fiddle and either would Angel, so MAJOR compromising would have to take place. I agree that she is a woman of pinciples and that dicates most of what she does but she has an exception, and his name is Angel. She was willing to kill Faith for him, no questions asked, cold murder. Granted that would have been 5 years ago but there is a deep well of emotion for him and I think that wins out with her. I think they would fight on the issue pretty much all the time. Like any couple there is always that one issue that ye will argue on, that neither of you will conceed ground on and I think this would be one of those for Buffy and Angel. I don't think it would stop them persuing a relationship together but I do think it piss each other off.

That's an intesting theory about the Black Thorn. If it was Buffy they wanted him to kill instead of Fred, I don't think he would do it. (It would make for FABTASTIC tv if they made us think he killed her). I can't see him doing it I just can't, he would find another way, he may even have went on and sacificed Fred instead of Buffy. Also he would have had the Scooby gang onside so to speak becuase of Buffy, that would mean mega wicca Willow and Giles Knower of All at his disposal. I think that would have made a huge difference to how the end played out.

The curse to be honest I think could have been gotten aound. First of all, not only had Angel W&H at his disposal but he also had the council and Willow. He would have a wealth of information available to him, in the show the curse was never reseached as such, so we have to assume that it hasn't been. There could very well be a solution right under their noses. The curse was created as a means to keep them apart, if Buffy was in S5 it would be about Angel and Buffy being together, I think a miraculous loop-hole would be found to accomadate their reunion.

If the curse remained intact I still don't see too much of a problem. Buffy and Angel could still be intimate without completely seizing the day, so to speak. Although I think there would have to be certain restrictions, maybe Buffy having her own apartment opposed to living with Angel. It wouldn't be the sweeping dream but it would pretty close. I neve eally understood why they made SO much about the curse, there wee ways around it. ANd if things got ou of hand Willow is still handy with a Thesullahan orb!

 

[Junostar]

I think that having them move on and experience love with other people was a great idea. It made both Buffy and Angel grow as characters.

Yeah, the idea was a good one, but having her hook up with Spike, a vampire and former enemy, was not such a good idea. Angel had a soul, yet it is still strange that a slayer is hooking up with vampires, but Buffy and Spike was a little too much for viewers and their understanding. And that is one of the reasons why the ratings dropped in seasons 6 and 7.

Edit:

The thing is that they didn't really move on. Angel was having the cookie-dough talk with Buffy while Cordy was in a coma. Buffy went back to Spike after Angel left. They were both hanging on to the relationship even though they knew they couldn't have it right then. It made it feel like Cordy and Spike were just placeholders. Which isn't healthy or fair to Cordy and Spike.

True........................

 

[palabravampiress]

I agee about the the scenaio having moe of a season long arc about it, no way would this happen fast and efficiently. I mean it's Bangel! at least 3/4 of the season would be angst!

I'm not too happy with my answer now...it was a bit of a rush job last night. I'm torn on the W&H issue. I think your musing that she would do her thing while he did his sounds more plausible. Buffy is, well, Buffy The Vampie Slayer. Emphasis one the THE. She isn't going play second fiddle and either would Angel, so MAJOR compromising would have to take place. I agree that she is a woman of pinciples and that dicates most of what she does but she has an exception, and his name is Angel. She was willing to kill Faith for him, no questions asked, cold murder. Granted that would have been 5 years ago but there is a deep well of emotion for him and I think that wins out with her. I think they would fight on the issue pretty much all the time. Like any couple there is always that one issue that ye will argue on, that neither of you will conceed ground on and I think this would be one of those for Buffy and Angel. I don't think it would stop them persuing a relationship together but I do think it piss each other off.

That's an intesting theory about the Black Thorn. If it was Buffy they wanted him to kill instead of Fred, I don't think he would do it. (It would make for FABTASTIC tv if they made us think he killed her). I can't see him doing it I just can't, he would find another way, he may even have went on and sacificed Fred instead of Buffy. Also he would have had the Scooby gang onside so to speak becuase of Buffy, that would mean mega wicca Willow and Giles Knower of All at his disposal. I think that would have made a huge difference to how the end played out.

The curse to be honest I think could have been gotten aound. First of all, not only had Angel W&H at his disposal but he also had the council and Willow. He would have a wealth of information available to him, in the show the curse was never reseached as such, so we have to assume that it hasn't been. There could very well be a solution right under their noses. The curse was created as a means to keep them apart, if Buffy was in S5 it would be about Angel and Buffy being together, I think a miraculous loop-hole would be found to accomadate their reunion.

If the curse remained intact I still don't see too much of a problem. Buffy and Angel could still be intimate without completely seizing the day, so to speak. Although I think there would have to be certain restrictions, maybe Buffy having her own apartment opposed to living with Angel. It wouldn't be the sweeping dream but it would pretty close. I neve eally understood why they made SO much about the curse, there wee ways around it. ANd if things got ou of hand Willow is still handy with a Thesullahan orb!

Yeah... I always thought the curse was lame. In another thread, I talked about how they could have dealt with it like normal couples deal with intimacy issues. But you're right; there are always resources like Giles, Willow, and W&H to take advantage of. If Willow can re-ensoul Angel several times, then I think she should be able to do so without the curse.

 

[Buffybot]

Totally had to add this in here. You'll notice that Angel can "sleep" with anyone he chooses, but sleeping with Buffy causes him to loose his soul. Buffy is the ONLY person who could give him the "ultimate happiness". Which, thus, he must love her. I'm not saying that he didn't have feelings for others, just that the feelings and comfort he got from Buffy were stronger. Kind of ironic, the one person he loved completely, would cost him is soul.... he he he 🙂