Do you think that Angel had every right to react the way he did?

Angel's son was taken from him by someone whom he held in high regard and trust - I think his actions were justified. I also understand Wes's point of view - his actions were that of a man who felt he had no other option. If Wes had confronted Angel about the prophecy, I doubt Angel would've believed it anyway, but I still think that Wes should've confided in someone withing the group.
 
While I think Angel was a BIT harsh in the trying to kill Wesley without hearing his side of the story or putting himself in his shoes.
I gotta say, Wesley could have given Connor to ANYONE other than Holtz. How about Giles? Or send him to the council? Perhaps a random firehouse would work nicely.

I'm just saying, I rewatched the episode and I see no real reason why he had to give Connor to Holtz instead of ANYONE else.
 
Dlou444 said:
While I think Angel was a BIT harsh in the trying to kill Wesley without hearing his side of the story or putting himself in his shoes.
I gotta say, Wesley could have given Connor to ANYONE other than Holtz. How about Giles? Or send him to the council? Perhaps a random firehouse would work nicely.

I'm just saying, I rewatched the episode and I see no real reason why he had to give Connor to Holtz instead of ANYONE else.
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It's been a while since I re-watched this ep, but I don't remember Wesley's plan being to give Connor to Holtz. I remember Lorne saying that when he read him, he was taking the baby away - for good. Wes had the baby, and was taking a suitcase to his Jeep when Justine came out the bushes, slit his throat, and took the baby. So, I know Wes didn't readily hand the baby over to Holtz.

I can't exactly remember the specifics in the following episodes, but was it ever revealed that it was Wes's true intention to hand Connor over to Holtz?
 
Well, he goes to meet with Holtz twice and they discuss Wesley giving the baby to him and he does appear to be attempting to MEET someone at the park, not just passing through in the middle of the night. The gist of the conversation leaves one assuming that he knew he was going to meet one of them there for some reason, it's just that Justine plays all hurt and upset about Holtz being just what Wesley had said.

It seems inferred that they were at least one of the major options he was considering, because Holtz keeps saying he wants the kid to live.
 
I'm gonna have to re-watch this episode, cause it will drive me nuts. As for the park - he mentions to Lorne that there is a park across the street from his house where lots of kids play, and his Jeep was parked across the street from his place, parallel to the park. I could've sworn he was just loading his Jeep when he heard Justine come up, and not actually heading into the park.

As for the the two meetings with Holtz, I browsed through transcripts of those scenes, and Holtz does mention "wanting the baby to live", "the baby not being safe with a demon", and so on, but I didn't see any discussion of Holtz taking the baby. Even though Wes met with him twice, I still never really saw them as great allies, and think that even though Holtz confirmed what Wes read in the prophecy - he still thought Holtz was a madman driven by vengance. I also think that Holtz knew ,deep down, he didn't have a chance of getting Connor away from Angel. From there, I believe he thought his only option was to manipulate Wes(playing on the fears he already had) into taking the baby - and I think that's where he thought he would see his opportunity.

Is it mentioned anywhere else?
 
L
Lou
Yeah, he never seemed to really LIKE Holtz in the meeting, that part is true.
S
Spirit_Of_Fred
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Well, angel did over-react but it's understandable.
I just felt bad for wes, his character gets screwed up after that...
 
I thought Wesley was right because I never saw another way.I don't think going to anyone would solve anything. Wesley is the chief mystics expert, if he says a prophecy is real then than it is. If any of the gang had a wider knowledge in any aspect than yes he should have gone to them for help because they could have offered something to the situation other than what Wesley has already done - 'Not believed it and try everything to disprove it'.

Talking to the gang about this would be like a CEO asking the Janitor advice on a big merger coming up. Wesley had a great deal of emotional investment but he also had his knowledge and understanding of how prophecies work, so he eventually came to the hard conclusion of what had to be done, the others only have their emotional ties and couldn't get past the 'No, that can't happen' response and even if they could look how much time it took Wesley to convince himself, he'd have to go through equal (if not more) time to convince anyone else and he didn't have it. Angel could kill Conner at any moment.

Though I am still sketchy on why he went to Holtz and the justification in that, I will have to watch it again. Though as I recall Wesley went to him to try and make peace. The prophecy was brought up by Holtz so it's not like Wesley went to him about Conner, it came up by accident. The only stupid thing I think Wesley did was trust Justine which almost got him killed.
 
Watching this storyline right now I think Angel mostly had every right basically to do what he did to Wes. Sure Wes thought he was doing the right thing but he should have confided in Angel and the rest of the team instead of just taking Conner.
 
I can forgive Angel for what happened in the situation its everyone else, including Wesley, that I feel are in the wrong.

Wesley should have confided in someone.
Fred should have given him more chance.
Gunn should have put aside his issue and sought a reasonable explanation from his friend.
Cordelia - well she pissed me off the most to be honest.
 
I can still understand why Wes didn't tell Angel though due to his behaviour at the time. If he were to tell him then it's uncertain how he'd react. Many say that he would have stepped aside and stayed away from Connor if he thought he was going to be a threat but given his irrational behaviour I can understand. The best person to go to, might have been Lorne seen as Gunn and Fred were not prophecy experts anyway.
 
I think the scene where Angel tried to smother Wesley was one of the most shocking and powerful scenes of the entire series. At first I felt kind of bad for Wesley...thought that maybe Angel should have tried harder to appreciate that Wesley felt he was acting for the greater good. But when I think about what I'd probably do in the same situation...Angel acted in the way I think most would.
 
PurplePoof said:
I think the scene where Angel tried to smother Wesley was one of the most shocking and powerful scenes of the entire series. At first I felt kind of bad for Wesley...thought that maybe Angel should have tried harder to appreciate that Wesley felt he was acting for the greater good. But when I think about what I'd probably do in the same situation...Angel acted in the way I think most would.
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definately one of the scariest scenes in angel.

i believe angel was right to be angry at Wes and if it was me i would have been as angry, being betrayed by your best friend and your son stolen is not just something you can shrug off.
 
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