Spoiler! Doctor Who: Spoiler Thread

[Bop]

It took me about 2 minutes to understand why Ncuti was in his underwear 😄 but I got it- it's because they were sharing David's clothes between them.

 

[NotASlayer]

The Toymaker also said to The Doctor "I made a jigsaw out of your history. Did you like it?" which one could interpret as The Toymaker revealing that he fabricated the whole Timeless Child origin story to mess with The Doctor- because that history for The Doctor was like a jigsaw puzzle that was never solved.

The Toymaker also mentioned something about some being he was too scared by the sounds of it to play a game with. And as he was being folded up, that something was coming. Hints for the next episode? Or season?

 

[Mr. Pointy]

The Toymaker also mentioned something about some being he was too scared by the sounds of it to play a game with. And as he was being folded up, that something was coming. Hints for the next episode? Or season?

Could "he who waits" also be The Meep's mysterious boss?

 

[Bop]

I just watched Paradise Towers and that's the first time I've seen Mel in Classic Doctor Who, shame I didn't watch it before yesterday 😄

 

[NotASlayer]

I missed the reference to the Archangel Network first time around.

 

[TheMaster666]

Well I finally saw the first of the 60th anniversary specials, and it was pretty terrible. It's so stupid and silly and campy, but also undeniably pretty fun. Which sums up the Russel T Davies era in a lot of ways.

Unfortunately, the contemporary BBC's predilection for "diversity and inclusion" is taken to ludicrous lengths. This is without a doubt the first time I've ever seen a woman in a wheelchair on a tv show, who isn't in a wheelchair for any narrative purpose relevant to the plot, but just there because being disabled is normal and we have to be inclusive of the disabled people. It's pretty funny that she's there, especially since they're in a collapsed steel mill, where there's very clearly only stairs and no wheelchair accessible ramps. It's honestly funny in a "so bad it's good" kind of way. There's also a Sikh UNIT soldier, wearing a turban. Then there's a line where they ask the E.T.-cum-Ewok creature for its pronouns. Yeah. And I thought the Chibnall era was bad. And to top it all off, they end the episode with Donna miraculously not dying and magically curing herself of all the timelord stuff in her head that was going to kill her because she has a daughter. Okay. And plenty of causal misandrist sexism thrown in there too.

All of that modern diversity crap aside, it was about as good as some of the weakest RTD-era episodes; reminds me of the literal fart monsters "Slitheen" from Season 1. Or the Absorbaloff? (the one with the guy telling a story over a webcam).

The sonic screwdriver was a deus ex machina even in Tennant's original era, but conjuring an Overwatch-style glass shield out of thin air takes the wacky things it can do to a whole new level.

Nevertheless, like I said, as stupid and nuts as all of it was, it was still pretty fun at times in a campy sort of way, until another stupid diversity line would rear its ugly head and remind you the b.s. of the Jodie Whittaker years isn't going anywhere.

Simply inserting fan favorite Doctor and companion into an episode where the writing is still as bad as any of the other recent episodes isn't going to save the show. It just comes off as the cheap nostalgia-grab this is. Pretty lousy way to honor the show, but I honestly lack faith that anybody either on the 2005 show or the Big Finish audios has the chops to write anything worthy of the original Doctor Who anymore. Or even of the best episodes of the 2005 show (e.g. Blink).

Post automatically merged: Dec 11, 2023

I just watched Paradise Towers and that's the first time I've seen Mel in Classic Doctor Who, shame I didn't watch it before yesterday 😄

Mel is known for one thing--actually two things:

1) She screams
2) Carrot Juice

If I remember correctly, she was introduced during the Trial season as the Doctor's future companion, but then once she became the regular companion they never actually gave her a backstory.

 

[Cohen]

Davies isn’t known for being conservative…

 

[NotASlayer]

If I remember correctly, she was introduced during the Trial season as the Doctor's future companion, but then once she became the regular companion they never actually gave her a backstory.

Interesting; in the latest episode there was an odd line to Mel that seemed like a throwaway related to her backstory that maybe wasn't as throwaway as it seemed.

 

[burrunjor]

Davies isn’t known for being conservative…

Actually he is

That's what's so annoying Davies, Chibnall all of the makers of New Who thrive on equally politically clueless, right wing youtube "fandom menace" types who call them commies or lefties to look anti establishment. In truth however Davies and Chibnall are establishment cronies as seen with RTD's dig against anti vaccers rubbish in that episode, or Chibnall's kissing the arse of big companies against their striking workers in Kerblam. Their left wing politics is as performative and shallow as can be. The day we see a genuine left wing DW story, the type that say Kim Iverson, or Jimmy Dore or Abby Martin would like I'll be amazed.

Right wing people, or establishment types will often hide behind identity politics (only when it is safe for their careers like having a female hero in a post Buffy/Xena world and then making out they are the first to do so) because it makes them appear left wing and progressive, but underneath they are politically clueless at best, little conservatives at worst.

Want to see a real left wing DW story? Curse of Fenric, Genesis of the Daleks, hell even the first Dalek story before RTD chopped it to pieces for that awful dumbed down version. They all tackle subjects like race hatred, fascism in nuanced ways, whilst still having the fantasy elements be strong and interesting in their own right.

Meanwhile I didn't watch much of this episode (I only saw the anti vaccers bit on social media) as Neil Patrick Harris was in it. If you ever wanted further proof of how hypocritical DW and sci fi fans are general, his inclusion is it. He creates a vile meat platter of Amy Winehouse's rotting corpse a few weeks after her death (a woman who DID get misogynistic abuse in the media, the likes of which many here couldn't imagine) and plastered it over social media, and nobody cares?

Others like Gina Carano get fired for doing NOTHING, but this disgusting creep is lauded? I'm not saying I want him cancelled, but the hypocrisy drives me insane

(PS when I brought this up to RTD that maybe he should stop blowing smoke up his arse about how wonderfully progressive he is when he works with a guy who indulges in weird, misogynistic cannibal fantasies at parties, he blocked me LMAO)

I did watch the last 5 mins and saw Ncuti and all I can say is Jesus Christ! Bi-regeneration or whatever we are calling it, him splitting in two is an AWFUL concept. There is literally no point in watching the show anymore. It's not the Doctor we are following, but a clone

That said I do feel vindicated as I've always said that the more they dick about with the core character of the Doctor through their stupid changes, like a romantic Doctor, a female Doctor, 42 new origin stories etc, the more he ceases to exist as a character and becomes just a title. That is EXACTLY what has happened now. He is literally two different characters.

Only good thing is Tennant's run was an absolute flop, so I doubt Ncuti will do much better. Will DW finally be wrestled from that obnoxious clique who brought it back in 2005? Will it finally end up in the hands of ACTUAL sci fi writers and not third rate sitcom, soap opera writers?

Best quote I've ever seen was when writing Star Trek Gene Roddenberry kept a copy of Isaac Asimov in his drawer, RTD had a copy of Heat Magazine in his.

 

[nightshade]

@burrunjor your language and tone is completely unnecessary, if you cannot post in this thread with swearing or insults then you will be unable to post in it. You can post your dislike without being offensive.

 

[Bop]

Mel is known for one thing--actually two things:

1) She screams
2) Carrot Juice

If I remember correctly, she was introduced during the Trial season as the Doctor's future companion, but then once she became the regular companion they never actually gave her a backstory.

From what I've seen the backstory is rarely a priority for classic companions so I think Mel fits right in, even the idea that she just screams is something that's been applied to other classic companions. But I was watching carefully to see if that's all she does and I was happy to see her shoot that swimming pool monster and save herself on that occasion. I'm not saying she's particularly revolutionary but to me she fits in with the others and that's not really an insult. I love Victoria and she is often just someone who is scared and doesn't save herself.

It's not the Doctor we are following, but a clone

Ncuti isn't a clone, there's just two doctors existing at the same time for the first time.

 

[Skanky Vamp]

Ncuti isn't a clone, there's just two doctors existing at the same time for the first time.

But that is sorta a clone. One doctor, suddenly a second "identical" doctor that spawned from the one doctor. That's how cloning works. It's essentially asexual reproduction.

 

[Bop]

But that is sorta a clone. One doctor, suddenly a second "identical" doctor that spawned from the one doctor. That's how cloning works. It's essentially asexual reproduction.

It's an error in the regeneration process, normally a doctor has to die and be replaced for the next doctor to be born but in this case the old doctor didn't die so the new one came out of him. But they're as different as any other pair of doctors otherwise.

 

[Skanky Vamp]

But they're as different as any other pair of doctors otherwise.

Right, but all of the other Doctors are still considered the Doctor, so this is a clone of the Doctor. From my understanding, new Doctors aren't 'born' they same Doctor but regenerate into (usually) a new face. So this is more of a clone of the Doctor. As they are both the same Doctor.

 

[Bop]

The Christmas Special

 

[Cohen]

Right, but all of the other Doctors are still considered the Doctor, so this is a clone of the Doctor. From my understanding, new Doctors aren't 'born' they same Doctor but regenerate into (usually) a new face. So this is more of a clone of the Doctor. As they are both the same Doctor.

But I think calling it a "clone" discredits the regeneration. The Meta-Crisis Doctor in Series 4 was a clone, and exact replica of the current Doctor, but half-human. Bigeneration to me, means more of a split. Fifteen is the "correct" version, the regenerated version, who is excited for new adventures. I think Fourteen carries all the weight of the previous Doctors, and is more "humanized".

 

[Skanky Vamp]

Bigeneration to me, means more of a split.

But I think calling it a "split" discredits the regeneration. As if it's not a whole generation but a sliver split from the original. Split makes it seem lesser.

 

[NotASlayer]

Fission!

 

[Bop]

Martha is the only RTD main companion to not walk away with a David Tennant doctor to keep.
All she got was Mickey for some reason.

 

[Cohen]

But I think calling it a "split" discredits the regeneration. As if it's not a whole generation but a sliver split from the original. Split makes it seem lesser.

I think Fifteen is the whole doctor, and Fourteen is the "split". Like Fourteen split off from the rest of the Doctor because He wanted to stay with his "family". But Fifteen carries the Doctor "regenerations".

Here's an explanation from Davies. I'm not in love with the idea of now having 15 Doctors gallivanting through time and space. I don't think we need a multiverse when TimeLords can be from any time. They live nonlinearly.