Spoiler! Doctor Who: Spoiler Thread

[Skanky Vamp]

I don't think we need a multiverse

Disney will soon have a Whoverse. With both the 14th and 15th doing their own shows. Disney paid a lot for it, they need to get their moneys worth.

 

[Bop]

Here's an explanation from Davies. I'm not in love with the idea of now having 15 Doctors gallivanting through time and space. I don't think we need a multiverse when TimeLords can be from any time. They live nonlinearly

I don't know if it's just me but I didn't take that comment from RTD seriously, it struck me as him saying anything is possible but it's not concrete that it's happened.
Either way I don't think it really changes the show because in the universe we've been watching it's still all the same up until the 14th and 15th doctors.

I've always thought of the incarnations getting darker and more damaged as they go along, because they all share the same memory, so I like that with Ncuti they've twisted it so (from what we've seen) he's pretty stable and happy because the 14th doctor has slowed down and processed all their trauma. 15 said to 14 "We're doing rehab out of order".
Things will go wrong for Ncuti's doctor as well because otherwise there's no drama but he's probably let go of the baggage from previous events and that's refreshing.

 

[Cohen]

Disney will soon have a Whoverse. With both the 14th and 15th doing their own shows. Disney paid a lot for it, they need to get their moneys worth.

I don't think Tenant wants to go back full time. But maybe a special or feature length film every now and then with Donna Noble.

Post automatically merged: Dec 11, 2023

I've always thought of the incarnations getting darker and more damaged as they go along, because they all share the same memory, so I like that with Ncuti they've twisted it so (from what we've seen) he's pretty stable and happy because the 14th doctor has slowed down and processed all their trauma. 15 said to 14 "We're doing rehab out of order".
Things will go wrong for Ncuti's doctor as well because otherwise there's no drama but he's probably let go of the baggage from previous events and that's refreshing.

Does 15 possess all of 14's memories post-bigeneration too? Someone on the video commented that maybe the regeneration was out-of-order because of the Toymaker. Like it happened sooner than was supposed to, the Toymaker being from out of reality, so that's why the bigeneration occurred. And also makes the "jigsaw" comment make more sense.

 

[Skanky Vamp]

I don't think Tenant wants to go back full time. But maybe a special or feature length film every now and then with Donna Noble.

It doesn't just have to be him. All of the past Doctors are alive. They can feature any or all of them.

The writer then suggests that each previous regeneration was impacted by the bigeneration, with every 'old' Doctor now surviving his demise in a splinter timeline.
"I think all of the Doctors came back to life with their individual TARDISes, the gift of the Toymaker, and they're all out there travelling round in what I'm calling a Doctor verse.
"Sylvester McCoy woke up in a drawer, in a morgue, in San Francisco… and Jon Pertwee woke up on the floor of the laboratory," he says.
"Colin Baker got up and sorted the Rani out," adds Doctor Who producer Phil Collinson.
'They all did," Davies confirms.

source

 

[AlphaFoxtrot]

Bi-generation sounds ridiculous. Like, Galifrey was a Golden Age Civilization that had endured millions of years, and had perfected regeneration and time travel to a degree that they had to install limits on both practices, just to make life interesting again, only to discover multiverse theory?

 

[Bop]

Does 15 possess all of 14's memories post-bigeneration too? Someone on the video commented that maybe the regeneration was out-of-order because of the Toymaker.

Yeah I think 15 has all of 14's memories, including what's to come for 14, because 15 was basically saying he's okay because of the work that 14 is going to put into 'recovery' in the future. Which is why 15 phrased it as rehab "out of order".

I love the Disney plus trailer that just dropped for the Christmas special. It's sweet seeing The Doctor hold baby Ruby.

 

[Bop]

I have heard a theory that myths are able to come true now because in Wild Blue Yonder The Doctor created a superstition at the edge of the universe "where all things are possible". Ncuti said that bi-regeneration was a myth but it happened, in the Goblin King song from the Christmas special there's a line saying the King is not a myth, he's real so possibly we're seeing myths come true.
This would also make sense because RTD has said he wants to delve into Fantasy more in this upcoming era of the show- along with Sci-Fi as always.

 

[TheMaster666]

From what I've seen the backstory is rarely a priority for classic companions so I think Mel fits right in, even the idea that she just screams is something that's been applied to other classic companions. But I was watching carefully to see if that's all she does and I was happy to see her shoot that swimming pool monster and save herself on that occasion. I'm not saying she's particularly revolutionary but to me she fits in with the others and that's not really an insult. I love Victoria and she is often just someone who is scared and doesn't save herself.

You may be right about Victoria, but majority of the companions are not just screaming damsels in distress. They usually are complex, well-written characters. Even in the 60s you had female characters like Barbara, Zoe, and Polly.

Sarah Jane began in Pertwee's final season as a feminist journalist. This was during the era of women's lib, and she was constantly out to prove there's nothing a man can do a woman couldn't. Once he regenerated, they gradually toned down this angle, but she was still very useful--climbing through vent shafts, or sniping bombs.

Jo Grant had training as a spy. Liz Shaw was a brilliant scientist, and she and the Doctor worked closely in the lab. In fact her initial skepticism of the Doctor's claims to being an alien helped ground the show and make it a little more serious.

Leela, Romana, Nyssa, Tegan all got several episodes dedicated to their introduction and had a lot more to their characters than just screaming. Leela is a cutthroat warrior, and while she came from a primitive tribe and lacks education, she's nevertheless not stupid. She's street smart. Romana, who followed, was the opposite. A fellow Timelord, and a recent college graduate from Gallifrey. She's got the textbook smarts, even surpassing the Doctor, but low on real world experience. She evolved too. The Lalla Ward iteration was quite distinct from the Mary Tamm one.

No, Mel really was the exception there.

Post automatically merged: Dec 12, 2023

Want to see a real left wing DW story? Curse of Fenric, Genesis of the Daleks, hell even the first Dalek story before RTD chopped it to pieces for that awful dumbed down version. They all tackle subjects like race hatred, fascism in nuanced ways, whilst still having the fantasy elements be strong and interesting in their own right.

Genesis of the Daleks is left-wing? I'm sorry to be the one to break this to you, but there isn't anything politically left or right about that. Of course Davros is inspired by dictators like Hitler and Stalin. Opposing them is opposing authoritarianism. That's not controversial.

The closest stories I can think of that even approach politics that might be considered left-wing would be The Green Death, perhaps Invasion of the Dinosaurs, and The Sun-Makers. The first two have mild criticisms of man's contributions to global warming, while the latter is critical of corporate overlords, in an economy that is a monopsony, i.e. a system where there is one employer that everybody works for, and they force ridiculous hours for insufficient wages and also demand exorbitant taxes. Which, while on the surface is a critique of big businesses, actually would be more accurately a criticism of the state, since only a government can issue taxes. Which would actually be a right-wing position, to oppose excessive taxation.

Bottom line, there really isn't any political bias in classic Who. Or just generally television from that era. The notion was anything biased enough would cost you viewership. Any political messaging has to be general enough that everyone would agree with it, yet still come across as profound and not overly simplistic or obvious.

We don't even really see politics in tv until the 90s/00s with things like The Daily Show, or ascent of Fox News, where tv became so fragmented with a thousand different channels, that it became possible to turn a profit by catering to specific demographics, rather than trying to cast as wide a net as possible as in the past.

And even then that was still on political networks and shows. Politics in general entertainment like Doctor Who is a very recent phenomenon, and usually a victim of bad writers who put agenda over substance.

 

[TheMaster666]

Wow, I really enjoyed the Wild Blue Yonder and Giggle episodes. Only Doctor Who can be so delightfully silly and fun with Neil Patrick Harris dancing the saltza to guns that shoot flower petals while simultaneously making a statement about how the world is so divisive because everyone is so self-righteous and thinks they're right about everything. I like the ending, too. Bi-generation. That's new. My only questions were:

1) Why is that girl in a wheelchair if she can walk?
2) Why isn't he wearing any pants?

I can't wait for the new Doctor. Looks like Doctor Who is back, baby! 😀

 

[NotASlayer]

2) Why isn't he wearing any pants?

If you mean 15 (and trousers!), that's because he and 14 are sharing clothes. 14 got the trousers.

Oh, I checked on Ruth Madeley, who plays Shirley, on IMDb. She has spina bifida and needs a wheelchair; the part was rewritten after she successfully auditioned to include a wheelchair.

 

[ILLYRIAN]

Oh no, not another bloody disabled person on the TV, I wish I had not known that .. .. as they say beware of them ruddy spoilers!

 

[AlphaFoxtrot]

Wait, it's "The Church on Ruby Road" and not "The Church of Ruby Rhod?" Well, I mean, it kinda made sense, you know what, never mind.

 

[Bop]

You may be right about Victoria, but majority of the companions are not just screaming damsels in distress. They usually are complex, well-written characters. Even in the 60s you had female characters like Barbara, Zoe, and Polly.

Sarah Jane began in Pertwee's final season as a feminist journalist. This was during the era of women's lib, and she was constantly out to prove there's nothing a man can do a woman couldn't. Once he regenerated, they gradually toned down this angle, but she was still very useful--climbing through vent shafts, or sniping bombs.

Jo Grant had training as a spy. Liz Shaw was a brilliant scientist, and she and the Doctor worked closely in the lab. In fact her initial skepticism of the Doctor's claims to being an alien helped ground the show and make it a little more serious.

Leela, Romana, Nyssa, Tegan all got several episodes dedicated to their introduction and had a lot more to their characters than just screaming. Leela is a cutthroat warrior, and while she came from a primitive tribe and lacks education, she's nevertheless not stupid. She's street smart. Romana, who followed, was the opposite. A fellow Timelord, and a recent college graduate from Gallifrey. She's got the textbook smarts, even surpassing the Doctor, but low on real world experience. She evolved too. The Lalla Ward iteration was quite distinct from the Mary Tamm one.

No, Mel really was the exception there.

True- and also Ace, I think she had the most detailed backstory that I've seen so far. She's very cool.

1) Why is that girl in a wheelchair if she can walk?

I'm assuming she probably can't walk far so she'd still need to move around in a wheelchair most of the time.

 

[burrunjor]

Am I the only one that finds Donna Noble to be soooooooooo overrated?

Leaving aside the fact that Catherine Tate's not a very good serious actress. She has two modes, SHOOOOUUUUUUTTTTTIIIIIINNNNNNNNGGGGGGGG for "comedy" and talking in a quiet voice. Donna is an insult in every way to every other companion and the Doctor himself.

She gets the Doctors powers and uses them better than he ever could to stop the Daleks, with her doing things he couldn't like create a new TARDIS, she also outright says that the universe has been waiting for her and TWO of him trail behind her and admit that she is better than him sheepishly. The only reason she can't keep his powers is because physically she can't handle them, nothing to do with her character, but for the brief moment she has them she is better than he ever was.

As I've said before that kind of story is an insult to the Doctor as it is basically making out he is only a hero because of his powers, his Time Lord intelligence. Give them to someone else and they'll use them more successfully than he ever could. Other series do that story in reverse! Buffy for instance has Faith get her powers and misuse them to show everyone that the Buffster is a hero because of who she is, not just the super strength. DW is the only one that hates its lead character so much it actually says "wouldn't it be better if this other person got them instead? Shame we're stuck with this guy." Of course I think that it is also a bit of misandry on RTD's part too.

From the beginning New Who always had a bit of a misandristic slant to it, as it was always written by people who were a bit embarrassed that the show starred a male character and wanted to show that actually we'll make the girl the hero even here. (Why they didn't just create a female led show, and kept insisting on doing male led shows for the most part, Sherlock, Broadchurch, Dracula, Years and Years, Torchwood is a mystery.)

Examples of this include undermining the Doctor in the Eccelston era for Rose and rarely letting him save the day in his first series. Donna however took it to insane lengths. As I have also said before, imagine if there was an episode of Xena where some guy came along, learned all of her skills and did everything better than her, dealt with Alti in 5 seconds, said you've been useless all these years the world is waiting for me etc. Think he'd be as popular with Xenites as Donna is?

This problem only got worse when she came back. Hilariously it's like RTD read the complaints of misandry about her first arc and thought he'd make it official! We now actually have her tell the Doctor that he's less successful at using their powers because he is a man!

Also her relationship with her husband, oh dear god! We are meant to believe anyone would happily let their spouse give away 150 million pounds! What man or woman, or non binary person, would be okay going back to getting up at 7 in the morning to do a 10 hour shift for minimum wage knowing they could have been a millionaire and still sing the praise of the person who did it!

Again imagine this in reverse, we have a woman who is working a low paying, quite hard job to support her family, who we find out could have been a multi millionaire, but her husband forced her to give it all away, and she meekishly says "I was never going to win that argument" and then later she goes on about how amazing he is. You'd think "Jesus girl get away from that controlling nightmare."

Aside from her misandry and undermining the Doctor however, again I HATE the way she undermines other companions. Her story in Journey's End makes them all look useless. As a Martha/Freema fan, I hate that her time on the show, barring a tiny cameo in End of Time comes to an end with her just being pushed to the side, and looking like an idiot to beef up Donna. After going through hell for a year against the Master to save the earth, she is now happy to blow it up? Also Sarah does NOTHING for the Stolen Earth. Actually whimpers "I'm sooooorrrrrrrryy" to a Dalek of all things, and then her plan to save the day is easily dealt with again so Donna can swoop in and do it all. Jack similarly does bugger all but shoot one Dalek, and even Rose does nothing. It's funny actually everybody saw Rose as the creators pet. I can see why, but even she's just there to fail in Journey's End so that Donna can be the true hero to save the day whilst all of these other companions stand at the side.

Also Donna is officially made out to be the most important human being ever in the entire history of the multiverse by Rose, the Doctor etc. Turn Left meanwhile similarly is nothing but how important Donna is, by showing us had it not been for her then the Doctor would have died at the hands of a third rate enemy and all of the other companions would have died, because none of them are as good as Donna. Even Rose didn't get that with Bad Wolf. She just stopped a fleet of Daleks, similarly Martha just saved the earth from the Master.

Sadly this trend continued in the 60th specials. Donna is made out to be 10s most important companion, the one he missed the most, and his ideal life is to settle down with her? What makes her more special than Martha? Or Amy? Or Ace? Or Tegan? Or Sarah? Or Leela? Or Romana. I mean I would have thought that Romana would be the one he'd settle down with as she is a Time Lady, but even then neither Graham Williams nor JNT made out she was the absolute best match for him of all time.

The idea of the Doctor settling down itself is tedious as he HATES settling down. The whole point of the character is he loves to travel and actually has a great life going on. Being exiled to earth as Jon Pertwee when he was working with UNIT, made up of some of the greatest scientists on earth like Liz, and where he got to fight monsters every other week to keep himself busy was still absolute torture, where as sitting on a council estate with Donna was..... Joy? Even in New Who he makes out that he can't stay with anyone human as he'll outlive them, yet Donna is so fabulous, and he cares so much for her above all the others, that doesn't matter any more.

Donna takes being a creators pet to insane lengths!

I could forgive all of this however, if there was something that made Donna stand out but there isn't. She is just another girl from London. In fact her story is just a repeat of Rose, only it's even worse. Both are cockney girls from 21st century London, with a mother figure who hates the Doctor, and a father figure that understands him more. Both go with the Doctor to escape their tedious lives that are going nowhere, and both have this weird thing chasing them throughout time and space, that turns out to be because they are the chosen one who will save the universe from the Daleks in the finale. I don't mind writers reusing ideas, but there isn't really anything else to Donna on top of that, other than "she doesn't fancy him". Even then she still kisses him, and hey ho, no companion for the first 26 years fancied him

Donna is just RTD's bland, stock character recycled again, though this time he thinks he is going to make her the bestest by having her be the most important.

Somehow she is inexplicably the most popular of all new who companions? It baffles me. I'd say she is the character I hate most out of DW after Missy. Nobody can top Missy of course whose inclusion did actually kill the show, but still. Donna is next in line.

 

[Bop]

@burrunjor

Other than Donna who else would be the 10th/14th Doctor's best friend?

Rose was his love interest in the end, and Martha was his friend but they weren't ever that close because he kept comparing her to Rose and she liked him romantically while he didn't like her back in that way. Meanwhile Donna is such a breath of fresh air because she's always only had platonic feelings for The Doctor. I'd say Donna becomes The Doctor's best friend the moment she puts her hands over his and choose to share some of the burden for sacrificing all the people in Pompeii. She's his humanity, that's why when The Doctor loses Donna he slips into being Timelord Victorious for a while. That's the storyline of series 4. I adore Donna and it's fair enough if you don't but the story does show why Donna is important to The Doctor.

I think it just speaks to insecurity if seeing Tennant's doctor say he loves Donna or she's the best is offensive, if Matt Smith's doctor said the same thing to Amy I wouldn't even think to be offended on Donna's behalf because it just goes without saying that Amy is the best friend for that particular doctor.

 

[Skanky Vamp]

Christopher Eccleston said at a convention that he could return to Doctor Who. He said he'll reprise the role as long as they "Sack Russell T Davies. Sack Jane Tranter. Sack Phil Collinson. Sack Julie Gardner."

 

[Cohen]

Christopher Eccleston said at a convention that he could return to Doctor Who. He said he'll reprise the role as long as they "Sack Russell T Davies. Sack Jane Tranter. Sack Phil Collinson. Sack Julie Gardner."

So not anytime soon.

 

[Bop]

I would love a ninth doctor and Rose special, under the next showrunner.

 

[TamsinValencia]

Yes I would love to see Billie Piper return.

 

[Cohen]

Can we get Rose back to this reality though?