Does Angel Deserve Buffy?

racheltng

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I know this sounds like a strange question, but before you just say, "yes!" hear me out. Buffy and Angel are my OTP, and I love to imagine them together. However, if Buffy were my friend in RL, I'd probably be warning her away from Angel. Here's a guy who broke her heart multiple times. He sees fit to make decisions for her, like leaving her for her own good. Also, he's broody and depressed most of the time, and when they were together she was always crying.

As a friend, I would want her to be with someone who brings happiness into her life, not drama, who lifts her up instead of bringing her down. Also, someone who doesn't have a history of hurting her so thoroughly.

Of course, this sort of advice from friends rarely works and often backfires, but if she asked me to honest, that's what I'd tell her. If this were real life, of course, not fantasy life. In fantasy life, the hurt only leads to more viewing fun.

Thoughts?
 
I don't know that deserving has anything to do with it for me. I just think they're not compatible. They're not good for each other. I think they're both genuinely good people, heroes. But together they're a mess. I like them better apart, either with other people or alone.
 
Well, Buffy chose to be with Angel, so, yes I think he deserved her.
I think they had some happy moments to, like I Will Remember You. (It didn't end that happy, but they looked really happy)
 
Re:

I know this sounds like a strange question, but before you just say, "yes!" hear me out. Buffy and Angel are my OTP, and I love to imagine them together. However, if Buffy were my friend in RL, I'd probably be warning her away from Angel. Here's a guy who broke her heart multiple times. He sees fit to make decisions for her, like leaving her for her own good. Also, he's broody and depressed most of the time, and when they were together she was always crying.

As a friend, I would want her to be with someone who brings happiness into her life, not drama, who lifts her up instead of bringing her down. Also, someone who doesn't have a history of hurting her so thoroughly.

Of course, this sort of advice from friends rarely works and often backfires, but if she asked me to honest, that's what I'd tell her. If this were real life, of course, not fantasy life. In fantasy life, the hurt only leads to more viewing fun.

Thoughts?

Love is tragic. As far as what Angel deserves? For the hundreds (or more) of people he tortured and killed? I'd say he deserves bamboo shutes under the finger nails or a good caning. But I guess the tortured soul and eternal community service does just fine. :mask:
 
I'm of the opinion that Angel was the only person that Buffy was with that actually made her life easier and offered a sanctuary to her that she never enjoyed again after he left.

As a friend I'd probably give the really bad advice, I've actually given that really bad advice, and tell Buffy to dump him but the fact of the matter is that non of Buffy's friends, not even Willow, saw how Buffy and Angel were with each other. They weren't about the PDA at all. What tore Buffy and Angel apart was out of their control. When they hurt each other it was usually whilst trying to help the other. Buffy is never as happy again as she was with Angel. Even in Chosen she is positively glowing, giddy even, when Angel reappears. Buffy and Angel brought more joy to each other than I think we ever had the chance to appreciate on screen. I mean when it comes down to it, isn't that a huge reason why he had to leave?
 
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GrrArghx
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Eleftheria
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MergedLoki
i agree. but what do you mean by he had to leave b/c they brought so much joy to each other?
Professor Walsh
Professor Walsh
Nice post.
crazysoulless
crazysoulless
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I know this sounds like a strange question, but before you just say, "yes!" hear me out. Buffy and Angel are my OTP, and I love to imagine them together. However, if Buffy were my friend in RL, I'd probably be warning her away from Angel. Here's a guy who broke her heart multiple times. He sees fit to make decisions for her, like leaving her for her own good. Also, he's broody and depressed most of the time, and when they were together she was always crying.

As a friend, I would want her to be with someone who brings happiness into her life, not drama, who lifts her up instead of bringing her down. Also, someone who doesn't have a history of hurting her so thoroughly.

Of course, this sort of advice from friends rarely works and often backfires, but if she asked me to honest, that's what I'd tell her. If this were real life, of course, not fantasy life. In fantasy life, the hurt only leads to more viewing fun.

Thoughts?

Well, first off, deserve is a bit of awkward word here. How do you deserve someone?

As for the unhappiness, one Angel didn't know the parameters of his curse so it's not his fault cause he didn't know and after knowing and thinking about it, he left. Considering Angel leaving her for her own good, I would be fine with him and considering Willow who is her best friend never warning her again after Revelations, I think everything would be okay. Plus I make it a point to just tell my friends to be careful, and that I will always support them after all, everyone has the right to do what they want.

Also, we don't how they were day-to-day the show is 24 episodes long per season, I assume there are a lot of things that we didn't see. It reminds of what someone said in Sex and the City, no one really knows what happens in a relationship except the two people in it.
 
I don't think he deserved her in BtVS seasons 1-3 but if you take Angel after all the good he's done in AtS and allowed Buffy to grow up a little they deserve each other. It just seemed to me the reason he was helping her in those early seasons was because he loved her and wanted her to love him, whereas in AtS he was fighting evil because he wanted to atone rather than to be with a girl. Just my 2c.
 
I don't think he deserved her in BtVS seasons 1-3 but if you take Angel after all the good he's done in AtS and allowed Buffy to grow up a little they deserve each other. It just seemed to me the reason he was helping her in those early seasons was because he loved her and wanted her to love him, whereas in AtS he was fighting evil because he wanted to atone rather than to be with a girl. Just my 2c.

This makes sense to me. I'm not sure they'd still want to be together then, though. They're both so different (lord knows I would have NO interest in being with my first love now, as an adult). But you never know.
 
Buffy is special girl. And being special is awesome. She changed the world. Does Angel deserve Buffy? Does Buffy deserve Angel? Does Paris Hilton deserve all those money she has, and she is earning it by being at parties?

I can't say Angel doesn't deserve Buffy. As friend, you are right, I would never want for me friend to end up with depressing guy, but I think, if we were close to Buffy, if we were with her all day, we could feel how she felt about him. And that's the thing, when love comes, all sense goes away.

Angel deserves Buffy. Buffy deserves the Angel.
 
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Eleftheria
exactly!
All people make mistakes.And people are not perfect.Also relationships are not perfect.What really matters is if people who are together are perfect for each other.

I am not gonna blame Angel for what Angelus did, because those things broke Buffy;s heart. Angel hurt her only once when he admitted that their relationship is tragic and that he wants to give Buffy a better future.

Personally, I understand why you ask that question. Angel is not the happiest boyfriend ever, the only girl,Buffy, who made him really happy had to send him to Hell after a few months. But when they are together, the air around them changes. How can I say this? I think they make each other more than happy...they complete each other. Buffy is a hero, she has given up a lot for her duties and so has Angel. They are both champions.

Yes they deserve each other, not just because they proved that they can put their love aside for duty's sake, but also because they fit each other perfectly.
 
PrincessBuffy16
PrincessBuffy16
Every relathionship is hard and full of mistakes, but hey, on our mistakes we learn ;)
For me it's not a case of deserving but realising that relationships seldom happen in a vacuum. Unfortunately they are bound by circumstances. The tragedy is that if it were not for the circumstances they would never have fallen in love but had it not been for the circumstances, they would most likely have stayed together.

Angel and Joyce's arguments were not about Angel not deserving Buffy but about Buffy deserving more. Although Joyce does not expressedly state what she believes their future would be like, she implies that it wouldn't go well and tells him that Buffy, like any other young woman in love isn't really thinking realistically about the future.

Not including recent events, because I don't fully understand them yet, it's not that clear what Buffy wants. It's obvious that Buffy and Angel define love differently nowadays and of course they would, no one stays static, but as they are both visionary idealists at their core they may represent the idea of each other's destiny, whether it has to do with engaging in a romantically relationship or not.

Buffy said she understood his decision to break up and choose to fight and help protect her rather than watch her die. She even joked about the so called highlights about her relationship with Angel in Chosen. Still as it's been said, it really depends on what they both want, not just from each other but overall.
 
Does Angel deserve Buffy

Being with Buffy forever should be Angel's reward after atoning for all the bad that he did with Angelus at the steering wheel before he got his sould restored. I think they deserve to be with each other because they really were more alike than different and they were destined to meet and fall in love and so should end up together after all is said and done. Buffy and Angel always did make a formidable pair when fighting together. IMO
 
Well, as many have said, sometimes it's really not about deserving the other person. I have a friend who loves someone that has hurt her very much, and I feel it's my job to warn her off of him. But obviously she doesn't listen, and it's because sometimes love just doesn't make sense at all.

However, I don't think it was a steady, dependable relationship by any means, and I did worry over Angel's attitude toward her. He always made choices for her or thought he knew better. It was understandable, considering he was over 200 and she was 16, but that just made them incompatible. He loved her and they had a relationship, but at the same time his level of maturity was much higher and he treated her as such.

Now? I don't know. If the obstacles that made them miserable suddenly jump out of the way and Angel and Buffy fall in love again, it's possible they could be good for each other. I'll always think Spike is better (though that does open up a totally new "does he deserve her?" debate), and I still feel like way too much of Angel and Buffy's relationship was based on the tragedy rather than the happiness.
 
In the first three seasons of Buffy I though it was a very one sided, unfair relationship. With Buffy doing most of the work and I would actually say that Angel didn't deserve her. I always seen Buffy as more selfless while Angel was selfish. It started off with some of their dialogue, where Buffy would be telling her feelings and Angel would some how make it about himself and his past. Yawn. Then came Graduation Day Part 2 and the scene where he feeds of her. I think everyone but me found this epic and moving, I sided with Xander.
"It's nice to know that when the chips are down, you'll feed off the girl that loves you to save your own ass."
I still can't believe that scene and I was happy to see him leave. He's had a few hundred years of existence but he feeds off a young girl who he loves to get some more time. I hate that scene. No matter how much she hit him, he should never have fed. Probably the most selfish thing he ever did. Sunnydale's about to be destroyed, people are going to die, Buffy's the best hope the place has and Angel nearly kills her! Then when the battle comes, not only having to deal with injuries from Faith and what he did to her, he tells her he won't say goodbye. A knife to the heart to go along with the severe blood loss! What a tool. 😀
Now before Bangel fans kill me and Kean kicks my ass, and since she lives in Ireland too, that's a possibility. 😀 I do think he grew to deserve her in his own show, but I think Cordelia was the reason for that. I think she showed him what it means to be a human and to care for family and friends, plus she never really stood for his mopey " woe is me " attitude.
So I think he did grow to deserve Buffy, but I find it interesting that his second love helped in that imo.
If things play out well I would be happy to see them together as I feel they have both grown. Hopefully that will happen, but with the way season 8 is playing out, there's a great chance I'll be back to calling him a tool. 😀
 
I think Angel finally stood up for himself in Amends. That was the episode I really started to respect him, too see his strenght. He finally became something more then Buffy's boyfriend.

Frankie, I'm not gonna kill you, and I'm sure other Bangel fans won't do that too, but I disagree with you. I think that scene was more about Buffy, then about Angel. It showed that she is able to sacrafice herself for the person she truly loves. Maybe it wasn't the smartest move, because as you sad, he could've kill her, but it shows that she trusted him. It shows that part of her knew that he'll know when to stop and that he'll find some help. Buffy was willing to sacrafice herself for Angel, again, because when she sent him to Hell, she sent one piece of herself with him too.
I agree that Angel grew up with Cordy. That's why I see them as friends, not as a couple. She didn't let him to be like that, she tried to change him, and that's was friends do. Partners usually try to accept the other person the way he/she is, and if that person loves he/she they'll change without even noticing. He should grow up, so as she, and when they come back to each other, they'll be perfect for each other, because they'll know they came back to each other after all. Angel left to do that. And that's the time when he finally showed he deserves her. He left so she can be able to grow up. He left to grow up. So, what's next? 😀
 
I agree with you PrincessBuffy16 in saying that "I think that scene was more about Buffy, then about Angel. It showed that she is able to sacrafice herself for the person she truly loves." But I think it should have been the same for Angel. He should have been willing to sacrifice himself instead of risking the life of the woman he loves. That scene is the main reason why I felt they weren't right for each other at this time, thankfully they grew into those roles.
 
I agree. Actually, I think in Buffy there should be more Angel moments. But I think it was Joss idea that it's ALL about Buffy. So as this scene, because in the end, it's all about one girl 🙂
 
I know this sounds like a strange question, but before you just say, "yes!" hear me out. Buffy and Angel are my OTP, and I love to imagine them together. However, if Buffy were my friend in RL, I'd probably be warning her away from Angel. Here's a guy who broke her heart multiple times. He sees fit to make decisions for her, like leaving her for her own good. Also, he's broody and depressed most of the time, and when they were together she was always crying.

As a friend, I would want her to be with someone who brings happiness into her life, not drama, who lifts her up instead of bringing her down. Also, someone who doesn't have a history of hurting her so thoroughly.

Of course, this sort of advice from friends rarely works and often backfires, but if she asked me to honest, that's what I'd tell her. If this were real life, of course, not fantasy life. In fantasy life, the hurt only leads to more viewing fun.

Thoughts?

The simple answer? No.

The long answer? Yes and no. More and more, I have a hard time using words like "deserve" when it comes to love. No one should have to "earn" anyone's love, and many people "deserve" love, but never get it.
 
MergedLoki agrees: i agree. but what do you mean by he had to leave b/c they brought so much joy to each other?

The curse. The details of the curse were sketchy at best. Now that Buffy and Angel were embarking on a redefinition of their relationship who was to say that what Angel regarded as "true happiness" was not also being redefined? What if they got to a stage in their relationship where simply being together, holding each other, telling each other "I love you", became Angel's definition of "true happiness"? It could have happened, unlikely, but certainly a possibility. Staying together was just far too risky and frankly, unfair to the both of them at that place in time.


In the first three seasons of Buffy I though it was a very one sided, unfair relationship. With Buffy doing most of the work and I would actually say that Angel didn't deserve her.

I think alot of the one sidedness was because we were seeing the story from Buffy's POV. Buffy pursued Angel, no question about that, but considering their situation Angel had major reservations as to whether being with her was the right thing. In the end it was something he couldn't fight and they became a couple. However, I do think it is unfair to say didn't pick up the slack on his side of the relationship.

Before "Surprise" Angel was constantly there for Buffy both as a friend and later a boyfriend but also as someone who could help shoulder the burden of slaying.

When She Was Bad it was Angel that tried to initiate a dialogue between them when she returned home, she dismissed him. He continued to help her figure out and fight the vamps thatwere rtrying to raise the Master and it was his his arms she folded into when she finally broke down at the end of the epidose.

Some Assembly Required Angel opens himself up to Buffy and admits that he is jealous of Xander and that he is worried about what a relationship between them would mean for her but also, that he wants that relationship. In School Hard he gives them information about Spike (not as much as he could have mind you) and he helps out when the school is under siege.

Reptile Boy he finally gets that pushing Buffy away can be as damaging as being with her. He asks her out for coffee, he made the first official move into "dating". Which, btw, is something I'd wager he had never actually done before.

In Halloween he is there waiting for Buffy in his nice little "normal boy shirt" trying to be that guy for Buffy. While he is off doing that Buffy is trying to be what she thinks is Angel's "normal girl". Throughout the entire ep Angel protects her and in the end he reassures her that all he wants is who she is already.

In Lie To Me the reality of who Angel is is put in front of Buffy. This isn't some little fantasy about "the lonely ones", Angel's past has become his present and Buffy has to deal with what Angel has been trying to warn her about all season: they aren't some fairytale and she won't live happily ever after when he kisses her. He gives her several opportunities to get out of the relationship that they are building. Throughout all of this he continued to try and help her with checking out Ford and his band of wasters.

All of the interactions in these episodes are integral to building the couple they become. It may seem like Angel is making Buffy work for him but really he was trying to show her what she was getting into. Sadly, Angel thought his only worry was his past, he had no idea that their future held such tragedy. In reality, he had no idea what he was getting into.

After these episodes we see a marked change in Buffy and Angel's relationship. The uncertainy as to whether to trust each other is gone. The trust is there, simple as that. In The Dark Age Buffy, for the first time, turns to Angel for his help with slaying rather than him offering it and he kicks Zygon's arse.

Angel aslo undertsands Buffy's desire to be "a normal girl". In fact I think they share that exact same desire because he very much wants to be a "normal man".

In What's My Line Angel tries to bring Buffy back into her "normal life" even if it is just for a moment by bringing her to the ice-rink. When Buffy is told to go hide in a safe place it is Angel's apartment that she goes to and when Angel tries to find out who sent the Order of Taraka on her he gets tortured for his trouble. Look at that final scene in the church when Buffy is holding Angel and stroking his face, the look of love on her face, the sheer devotion. Then look at Angel's face hope, relief and love is written all over his. There is nothing one-sided about these two.

Then you have Ted, they only get one scene together butin that scene Angel again offers Buffy help with dealing with this new part of her life that she neither likes nor undertsands. Of course he can't make it better for her but it is clear that simply being with him makes her happy.

Bad Eggs we see much more of how Angel being there as a boyfriend and being there to help with the slaying overlap. They tell each other they are all they see in their futures.

Surprise he is there for her at every turn. He gives her the claddagh ring, another promise of the future, he is willing to leave with that arm in the box which helps with her slaying, he tells her he loves her.

Angel may have tried to resist Buffy initially but it was because he was worried about her (and rightly so) but he pulled his weight in the relationship. If he didn't then Buffy would not have relied so heavily on him in times of crisis. In Passion she tells Willow how he is still the first person she thinks to go to for help. There's a reason for that.

I think the best illustration of how they worked so well for each other is in Surprise when they are walking down the dock. Angel has the arm on his shoulder, Buffy is leaning into him, her head on his shoulder supporting her and he kisses the crown of her head. It's a simple act but one of familiarity, trust and comfort.


Then came Graduation Day Part 2 and the scene where he feeds of her. I think everyone but me found this epic and moving, I sided with Xander.
"It's nice to know that when the chips are down, you'll feed off the girl that loves you to save your own ass."
I still can't believe that scene and I was happy to see him leave. He's had a few hundred years of existence but he feeds off a young girl who he loves to get some more time. I hate that scene. No matter how much she hit him, he should never have fed. Probably the most selfish thing he ever did.

AS PB has said, that scene was about Buffy, not Angel. Look at where it happened? In the exact same spot where Buffy had sent him to Hell a year before, probably to the day. We had seen throughout that entire season how Buffy could not evade or deal with her guilt for what she did to Angel. Him coming back didn't change that. As far as she was concerned she damned him, twice. First whe he lost his soul and the second time when she sent him to Hell. To Buffy not saving Angel wasn't even an option. It was something she needed to do, much like she was never not going to save Dawn. By forcing Angel to to feed from her in Graduation Day part II she was making amends with herself for the life she took from him in season two.

Also, Angel was out of his mind, he was hallucinating both Oz and Willow as Buffy. He told Buffy that it was over, that he was done, that he wouldn't feed off her. She refused to accept that. He was weak before she came back to the mansion, by the time she had slapped him around he was weaker still and operating on pure instinct. Even on that level she still had to pull his head to her neck and only then did the vampire that he is at his core come out to play. It didn't last long though because the man that he is took over and he stopped before it was too late and brought her to the hospital.

Not once in this entire thing did Angel behave as if Buffy was only the means to "saving his own ass". Not only that it proved to him how dangerous he was to her and was more sure than ever that he had to leave. Before Buffy came back to the mansion he had said that he couldn't leave, that he needed her.

I think it is totally unfair to vilify Angel for what happened in that scene as if it was something he made her do. He had accpeted his death, it was Buffy that didn't.

As for the point about Angel never sacrificing himself for Buffy? Well he got his chance a few months later with IWRY. I'm of the opinion that anytime either of them did any sort of "sacrificing" for the other it ended up with severe consequences for both.

Like I said, there was nothing one-sided about their relationship.
 
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dan k
couldn't disagree with any of that
G
GrrArghx
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Tome
Tome
Damn and I feel like I type huge posts... That's HUGE! Good points too.
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Eleftheria
really great analysis...and very nice description of their scenes together and the meaning behind them...it's what I feel about them. We mostly see the story in s1-s3 from Buffy's point of view...thanks Kean you're great!!!
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