Does this make Spike a better vampire then Angel?

[Anne Summers]

No because he did it for the wrong reasons.

And did Spike even want his soul back? Because personally I thought it looked like he was going to get something to do some damage to Buffy. Especially with his shock when the demon tells him he is going to receive his soul back.



Spike never says anything about wanting a soul. And if you look at the words in context, it seems like he wants his chip back or something so he can kill Buffy. That is just how I interpreted it though.

I think that if he wanted his chip out, he wouldn't have gone to a demon to take it out. He would have tried to force a doctor take it out. I think he went to get his soul back for Buffy.

 

[Buffy Summers]

No he didn't do it because he was selfish. He did it so he would become the kind of man Buffy deserved, whether she would choose to be with him or not, he wanted to be the kind of man she deserved. Not saying Spike did it just to be good, he had plans, but he did it to be a better man.

I'm just saying if you're going to say that Angel was a bad guy before he had a soul, you can't say Spike was a saint lol

 

[eponinethen]

Hehe, Spike certainly was no saint. He did lots of evil stuff too, like killing slayers, eh..

 

[Wesley's Sylyna]

spike didn't stop killing people because of buffy.
it started when he got the chip and could only feel on bagged blood.

and angel was no better than spike, he was just as evil or more so when he didn't have a soul. who do you think taught spike. NOT dru, she has trouble taking care of herself. darla, hell no. she's self absorbed, all she wanted was to feed, nice clothes, nice places to stay and to f*** angelus at all hours when they weren't hunting.

angelus taught spike how be like he is. and spike learned well. spike just doesn't broad like angel does. angel probably broads because he misses some of the times he use to do with no soul and misses being a demon without a care in the world.

 

[LadyLavinia]

What is this thread about, anyway?

Is this about who was the most evil vampire, or who was the better souled vampire?


By the way, Angel brooded, because of the curse on his soul.

 

[Willow Rosenberg]

What is this thread about, anyway?

Is this about who was the most evil vampire, or who was the better souled vampire?


By the way, Angel brooded, because of the curse on his soul.

The original question was regarding if Spike was a better (more benevolent) vampire than Angel because he won his soul back rather than it being forced upon him.

 

[Wesley's Sylyna]

The original question was regarding if Spike was a better (more benevolent) vampire than Angel because he won his soul back rather than it being forced upon him.

Yes that is what the topic is about.

But most people aren't considering is, what they where like before they got there soul or what where they like before they where turned. You need to look at it from all angles before you decide for yourself who was better.

 

[LadyLavinia]

One, Spike never really struck me as a benevolent vampire. I've always felt that he saved lives because he found it exciting, he did it for Buffy's love, or for companionship with the Fang Gang, or it kept him from being bored. But I don't think his heart is really into being a "champion".

On the other hand, if the gypsies and later, Willow, had never souled Angel against his will, I seriously doubt that he would have spent some of his undead life being a "champion". Worse, it took Whistler to convince him to help Buffy in Sunnydale; and later, Doyle to convince him to do the same in L.A. He's not very good at making the decision to help others on his own. There is always some external force - whether through the influence of others or the effect of his curse - which leads him to make that choice. As long as Angel has never made the choice to be ensouled in the first place, this doesn't make him a "champion" anymore than Spike, as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Wicked]

Angel was cursed but spent years living alone as far from humans as possible. in fact at first he still killed humans to try to win back Darla.
Spike only got his soul back to impress Buffy.

Spike would have still been a bad guy, however, if he had never got the chip. either he would have killed Buffy or left Sunnydale, so he would never have fallen in love with Buffy so would never try to be good.

You know you'd think I'd have a point here.

To be honest its not fair to say. doesnt really matter how they got their souls. neither seems to be any better than the other.
Yeah, that was my point :S

 

[Mango]

I am very conflicted about this whole situation. It's strange because I was watching the Angel episode 'Destiny', today, and it got me thinking about this. I think that Spike's humanity has shone through since he got the chip in his head. I mean sure, he would never have stopped killing if they hadn't put the chip in his head, but when the initiative put the chip in his head, it gave him a chance to see what being good is all about. When he found that he couldn't kill humans anymore, he learnt to connect with them and discover that they are more than just 'food'. He got to experience humanity because of the chip. Also though, he did not realise that it was his soul he was fighting for when he was undergoing those tasks, so....I don't know....

I have always seen Angel as just a mask for Angelus though. I mean I like Angel's character, but Angelus is his true nature. Angel is and always will be just a curse IMO, but Spike was more than that.

 

[Drusilla's_Evil]

Hmmm, I'm not sure who's the better vampire between Spike and Angel. I mean, I personally like Spike more than Angel, but that's just a preference, it's not because I think Spike's the better vampire. Angel was cursed with a soul, and Spike voluntarily got a soul, but if not for the chip in his head, and him starting to team up with Buffy, then I doubt he would have gone to get his soul. It's confusing, and I'm torn between which one is the better vampire, so I'm just gonna say that they are both equally vampires!! : grinyes

 

[Edgeoforever]

I was thinking, Angel was "cursed" with a soul but Spike "won" his soul back. Does this make Spike a better vampire then Angel?

Uh, working for redemption versus chip in the head. The depth of the 2 stories is contrasting enough to make a sublime vs ridiculous pair - and that's how the association of the two works so well for me. Angel and his parody made season five!

 

[Angelus 114]

I always liked Spike better than Angel. Spike was so funny, but angel was boring and did nothing in his spare time but brood.

 

[PrincessZombie]

The original question was regarding if Spike was a better (more benevolent) vampire than Angel because he won his soul back rather than it being forced upon him.

Wow. That's not how I took the question at all. 😉

I guess they both suck at being vampires, since they have souls and do good deeds.

But if you're asking who is more benevolent, not who makes a better vampire...I'd have to say neither of them. Angel was cursed with his soul and brooded for several decades and completely avoided people. He didn't do anything redemption-worthy until Whistler came along. And then he only helped people to get redemption from the powers, not because he wanted to.

Spike got his soul back for love, to be a better man (even though he isn't and never will be a man) for Buffy. Some people call that selfish, but I think love is an excellent reason to strive to be more than you are. He didn't get his soul to make Buffy love him, but to be worthy of her. But that hardly makes him more benevolent. He saved people, sure, but not just because he liked them or anything.

So neither of them are really benevolent, they both do good deeds for different, mildly selfish, reasons.

An off-topic note: Some people said that Spike wasn't as evil before he was souled, and I agree. Spike could love, while Angelus could only hate. Spke did help save the world before he was chipped or souled, while Angelus tried to destroy it. Again, Spike did it for selfish reasons, but like that big blue demon said, Spike had disgusting amounts of humanity in him. Angelus didn't. Sorry, that was really off-topic, but other people talked about it too. 😉

 

[Wesley's Sylyna]

Spike cared about others before he had a soul? Who was there following Angel around in his nasty days? lol

He loved Dru!
He only put up with Angelus because of Drucilla.

 

[Wesley's Sylyna]

But as far as who's a better vamp goes, since vampires are "suppossed" to be evil, blood-thirsty, slayer- killing, creatures of the night I think (to a vampire of course, NOT my opinion!) they'd be kinda "insulting" to the vampire race. (Post souls)

Only in the since that they kill there own kind, turned there back on there own kind, fell in love with the slayer. Oh and they both have those shiny pesky souls.

 

[VisionGuy]

I have a question about the whole Spike getting his soul thing.Did Spike even know he was getting a soul after those trials.I thought he just wanted to get that chip off his head.Isn't that why he went to Africa.

 

[Wesley's Sylyna]

By the way, Angel brooded, because of the curse on his soul.

No Angel broods for another reason, not sure what though.
Because look at Spike he was a wreck after he got his soul, but he didn't brood afterword.

 

[Wesley's Sylyna]

I have a question about the whole Spike getting his soul thing.Did Spike even know he was getting a soul after those trials.I thought he just wanted to get that chip off his head.Isn't that why he went to Africa.

We don't know. It's how they did the show that always leaves you guessing.
But I think it was to get the chip removed.

 

[Angel kitty]

I think it was to get the chip removed too.