How Many Times Did Buffy Die?

[nerd4hire]

It's an often discussed question, so we need a thread on it to link to in the oft-asked questions thread. How many times did Buffy die?

I'm thinking Buffy's deaths can be divided into two categories.

She Definitely Died and the Characters Recognize Them as Deaths

Maybe you could even call them official deaths.

In Once More with Feeling Buffy says "Hey I died twice"

In Dirty Girls Xander says "This girl has died two times, and she's still standing."

So, those 2 deaths would be death by The Master in Prophecy Girl, and death by leap in The Gift.

Arguable Deaths

The one that gets argued the most is the flat line death in Villains. Does that one count? It's oft debated.

There's also the death by Vampirism in Nightmares, and death in an alternate reality in The Wish.

Did I miss any?

 

[Kean]

I don't think so, thats about it.

I think the flat line should be counted but does that bring the whole 'should a new slayer have been called' question back again? At the time of villians who was the line running through?

 

[Lyri]

what about in 'Bad Girls' in S3

Buffy: I hate it when they drown me.

lol, ok, i'm not serious, but i thought it was funny. no, i don't think you missed any, N4H.

 

[Clem Rocks]

I think the flat lining is as much as death as the drowning was
Not sure about the alternate reality one as it was exactly that, an alternate reality, it never happened in Buffy's normal reality, and the nightmare one was in a nightmare so that never really happened either

and @Keanoite: The line only goes through Buffy during season one, after that it goes through Kendra and onto Faith

 

[LittleMissLikesToFight]

flatlining, i mean, does that automatically make you dead? wouldn't it depend on how long she flatlined for? Because hearts can stop but that doesn't mean you die instantly from it, as people are obviously able to be revived, so i don't totally consider them dead unless you can't bring them back with paddles or anything. DyING maybe, but not dead.

 

[Kean]

once the heart stops beating a person is clinically dead, regardless of how long her heart remained unbeating she was dead for those few seconds.

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

and @Keanoite: The line only goes through Buffy during season one, after that it goes through Kendra and onto Faith

Wrong wrong wrong, but this is N4H's absolute favourite topic so I'll just tell you you're wrong.

See, firstly, I don't even count the first death as death as Buffy didn't die.
Anyone who has done even first aid will know that if you 'die' no amount of mouth to mouth will bring you back, you need actual proper medical intervention.

I also don't count the flat line, it just doesn't hit me as a death.

If the writers write that we are to believe Buffy died in PG then ignore the season 6 one, it must mean they don't count that and if they don't count it, I certainly don't.

 

[Tueuse de Vampires]

flatlining, i mean, does that automatically make you dead? wouldn't it depend on how long she flatlined for? Because hearts can stop but that doesn't mean you die instantly from it, as people are obviously able to be revived, so i don't totally consider them dead unless you can't bring them back with paddles or anything. DyING maybe, but not dead.

you could use the same argumentation on when she drowned. Xander was able to revive her, so does that count?

 

[TrueVengeance]

In Villians, did we actually see her flatline? I really don't remember even noticing that *stratches head*

 

[SpikedBuffy]

I don't see the 'flatlining' in season 6 as a death. Now, I only know from what I see on tv, but it makes sense in my head, that a person's heart can stop for a certain amount of time, but they are not technically dead, because their is a window of time where they can still be revived. The damage is not irreversible. Did we see her reach that point? I don't know.

That would then fly in the face of considering her drowning in season one. There is a window of time there too, where a person can go without breathing, but able to be revived. But I think that because she went through that period of time, where she was not breathing, that the slayer ability would've been passed on.

 

[Rowan Hawthorn]

I don't think the "flatline" thing was Buffy's system failing, anyway; if you notice, every piece of machinery in the ER malfunctioned when Willow walked in, including the cardiac monitor.

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

I don't see the 'flatlining' in season 6 as a death. Now, I only know from what I see on tv, but it makes sense in my head, that a person's heart can stop for a certain amount of time, but they are not technically dead, because their is a window of time where they can still be revived. The damage is not irreversible. Did we see her reach that point? I don't know.

That would then fly in the face of considering her drowning in season one. There is a window of time there too, where a person can go without breathing, but able to be revived. But I think that because she went through that period of time, where she was not breathing, that the slayer ability would've been passed on.

I always attributed the flatlining of the machine to the serious energy being given of by Darth Rosenberg

I believe the 'Slayer' essense doesn't move on at the point of death because it would 'die' with Buffy, hence the firsts need to kill Buffy last, but that it jumps moments before actual death when it is certain that death will occur.

 

[Blondie Bear]

I agree with BotD; if Buffy had been like any other Slayer, she would have been dead in "Prophecy Girl." But she wasn't; she had someone who was there to revive her. The power, or what/whoever decides that the power passes, would naturally have assumed that she was going to die, and activated Kendra.

 

[ILLYRIAN]

Oh dear, it's on again !
If she was brought back to life magically after being in the coffin for 147 days, yep, she was dead.
But if you want to believe in the shows continuity Xander says she died or Buffy singing I died twice, oh really...........if you want to believe that load of s- - - I've died three times, yet I have this feeling I wasn't clinically dead [ brain dead ].

 

[Kean]

Wrong wrong wrong, but this is N4H's absolute favourite topic so I'll just tell you you're wrong.

See, firstly, I don't even count the first death as death as Buffy didn't die.
Anyone who has done even first aid will know that if you 'die' no amount of mouth to mouth will bring you back, you need actual proper medical intervention.

I also don't count the flat line, it just doesn't hit me as a death.

If the writers write that we are to believe Buffy died in PG then ignore the season 6 one, it must mean they don't count that and if they don't count it, I certainly don't.

If you don't believe Buffy died in PG how did the line pass to Kendra? A new Slayer is only called when the other has died. Kendra was called therefore Buffy actually died.

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

If you don't believe Buffy died in PG how did the line pass to Kendra? A new Slayer is only called when the other has died. Kendra was called therefore Buffy actually died.

There is 10 minutes between my last post and yours, if you read up you will see my belief.

 

[Kean]

maybe you just need to be near enough to death, and not actually die

No I don't agree with that. That completely changes one of the fundamental elements of the show. If a Slayer just had to be near death then a new slayer would be called every week. Throughout entire series it is said that a slayer must die for another to be called.

Edit:

There is 10 minutes between my last post and yours, if you read up you will see my belief.

Sorry about that, I still disagree though. If, like you say the flatline can be attributed to veiny Willow then what happened in PG still stands and even if it wasn't Willow's doing I still think Buffy was dead in PG.

Edit:

If she was actually and totally dead she couldn't have been revived. She did not die, so Kendra wasn't a slayer, couldn't be as Buffy didn't die.

Who died and made you Joss Whedon? since when is Kendra not a Slayer? You are blantantly ignoring the shows canon to back up your own little theory.

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

No I don't agree with that. That completely changes one of the fundamental elements of the show. If a Slayer just had to be near death then a new slayer would be called every week. Throughout entire series it is said that a slayer must die for another to be called.

It depends on what is meant by 'near death'.

The essense of the demon that lives in the Slayer could have a level of conciousness that we haven't fully explored.
If that is the case, at the point of death, or just before, it makes the decision to leave, maybe it is impossible for it to leave after death has occurred hence my reasoning that The First needed Buffy to die last so it HAD no where to go.

Sorry about that, I still disagree though. If, like you say the flatline can be attributed to veiny Willow then what happened in PG still stands and even if it wasn't Willow's doing I still think Buffy was dead in PG.

I don't get how either one is connected.

I am suggesting that Buffy was no where near death with Willow but was close to but not quite there in PG.

Who died and made you Joss Whedon? since when is Kendra not a Slayer? You are blantantly ignoring the shows canon to back up your own little theory.

I don't agree that Kendra wasn't a Slayer but I do agree that Buffy didn't die and Joss, in all his wisdom, flew in the face of medical fact with his constant 'Buffy died' stance.

I wouldn't mind if Giles had just once, as the intellectual one, had piped up and said 'not quite died but close'

 

[Kean]

It depends on what is meant by 'near death'.

The essense of the demon that lives in the Slayer could have a level of conciousness that we haven't fully explored.
If that is the case, at the point of death, or just before, it makes the decision to leave, maybe it is impossible for it to leave after death has occurred hence my reasoning that The First needed Buffy to die last so it HAD no where to go.

It's a very plausible theory but unless Whedon comes out and says actually a slayer only needs to be a little dead not dead dead for the line to pass I will still believe in the canon of the show and that Buffy did indeed die.

I don't agree that Kendra wasn't a Slayer but I do agree that Buffy didn't die and Joss, in all his wisdom, flew in the face of medical fact with his constant 'Buffy died' stance.

I wouldn't mind if Giles had just once, as the intellectual one, had piped up and said 'not quite died but close'

I agree that Whedon's medical knowledge leaves a little to be desired but I don't see that reason enough to say that because his theory isn't medically sound that we should reject the show's canon.

Giles actually says the opposite to what you suggested above, In What's My Line Part II he tells Buffy that it doesn't matte how long she was gone for when she drowned she was physically dead.




Quote:

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

It's a very plausible theory but unless Whedon comes out and says actually a slayer only needs to be a little dead not dead dead for the line to pass I will still believe in the canon of the show and that Buffy did indeed die.

The only reason I have the theory is because Buffy simply didn't die in PG, that is all, and at least that theory then ties all the otherwise loose ends up.

Without it there is an aching chasm of 'well she didn't die, so how did the line pass on'.

I agree that Whedon's medical knowledge leaves a little to be desired but I don't see that reason enough to say that because his theory isn't medically sound that we should reject the show's canon.

Giles actually says the opposite to what you suggested above, In What's My Line Part II he tells Buffy that it doesn't matte how long she was gone for when she drowned she was physically dead.

I don't see how you can easily dismiss medical fact because it interrupts a good story. We're on, what I like to call, 'Charmed Ground'.
What is it that I am really rejecting?
That Buffy died?
Thats not such a big thing. I have given a very plausible way around it using real world medical knowledge that lets us keep the whole Slayer line moving AND the ability for Xander and Buffy to say Buffy died twice.

As for the Giles quote, to come from such a learned man is appalling and only adds to my frustration in this matter.
Buffy could not have been physically dead as no amount of CPR would bring her to life, it would take medical intervention.