• Thank you for visiting Buffy-Boards. You obviously have exceptional taste. We just want you to know that:
    1. You really should register so you can chat with us!
    2. Twelve thousand people can't be wrong.
    3. Buffy-Boards loves you.
    4. See 1 through 3.
    Come on, register already!

I refuse to accept Kennedy as Willow's end game pairing / one true love.

DeepBlueJoy

Lion Faced Kitteh
Joined
May 5, 2014
Messages
817
Location
East of Trouble
I can't believe I'm defending Kennedy here, as I can't stand her, but I think her behaviour in season seven makes more sense if you take into account the themes of that season. What is a slayer? The final season addresses the meaning of Buffy's calling more than any other, albeit sloppily.

The slayer is like a soldier -- an emotionless tool of another institution (the army is the government's tool, the slayer is beholden to the watchers and a 'primoridal' power). They're fighting a war, but the reality is that war is institutionalised rage, and no matter how respectable Americans think their veterans to be, all soldiers are trained to be killing machines. No room for emotions and Dr. Phil.

Kennedy is a accurate example of what happens to a soldier. They become cold killers...nasty and mean. So did Buffy in season seven. They could have made a brilliant sending off to the show had they harnessed this theme more maturely.
Uhm, do you know anyone who has or is serving in the military? Sorry, but you are wrong. They don't all turn into cold killers, nasty and mean. Most don't. Yes, being a soldier does change you and those in combat can go through some life changing stuff. Yes, they learn to compartmentalize. Anyone who has to see or cause or be around lots of ugly death has to or they won't survive long enough to do the job. This doesn't make them cold or unfeeling. This makes them responsible adults in a hard situation. This happens to soldiers, doctors, emergency personnel. They have to stay in control. Kennedy was anything but and she was always trying to stir everyone up.

Although I would love to have seen the psychological aspects of fighting a secret and potentially unsurvivable war explored, I don't think that Kennedy is a good example of battle fatigue or PTSD. She just seemed spoiled and willful.

I do believe Buffy did harden herself in order to survive the war she saw was coming, but I think she had a unique situation -- try to survive and to save the world without much help, and with the added burden of becoming responsible for 30 odd useless, frightened kids who showed up requiring food, training, protection and constant reassurance.

Every good senior officer knows he/she will have to send people out to die and so they must learn to face that. The situation in Sunnydale was that she had all of the burdens and none of the authority, as she was being constantly undercut by Giles, Willow, Xander and even Dawn. The only people who don't try to take her power are Spike and oddly, Faith -- though Faith ends up with Buffy's responsibilities and what leadership power Buffy had had being dropped in her lap. That didn't go well, but since she had none of Buffy's experience and no training from Giles or anyone else, that wasn't her fault.

Kennedy was out of control. She's not an accurate portrayal of trauma of any kind, though she's obviously scared and that's a reasonable thing.

Kennedy had no loyalty or respect for anyone. She thought she had the right to order people around and be rude and hostile and she shoved her way into Willow's bed That is NOT how you open someone up after a loss. She just acted like any random soldier who wants to get laid in a war zone -- she pushed until she got what she wanted. Frankly, I don't hate her mostly because I cannot bring myself to care about her and I don't really want to bother with thinking about her.

Season 7 was poorly written and the potential story line was horribly realized. Kennedy was not that high on my list of what was wrong with season 7. She was just part of the ugly whole. I don't think she's evil, but she's uncaring and self seeking. I know peopel like her. She's a narcissist. I don't wish those on anyone. They lack any empathy. That worse than being cold.
 

DeepBlueJoy

Lion Faced Kitteh
Joined
May 5, 2014
Messages
817
Location
East of Trouble
Kennedy does not pretend to be into the same things as Willow. It would have been more damning if she had feigned interest just to further ensnare Willow. But like Spike, she doesn't think anything worthwhile can come from it.

The kiss didn't turn Willow into Warren, Amy's spell did. Furthermore, the spell was not specific but was intended to look into the target's psyche and determine the most appropriate form to take. Turning her into the person she hated and killed would be an expected response. Kennedy's kiss broke the grief long enough to disconnect it from Willow. Willow feels ashamed to have temporarily moved on but I have seen the resullts of the love for a dead person lasting the rest of the other person's life and it was tragedy. The woman in the apartment next to us was born about 1900 and had one true love who went off to the Great War (before they called it WWI) and died. She went through all her life with no one. Think about it - the roaring twenties flapper era, the depression, WWII, the postwar boom and the stagflation of the 1970's (when we met her) and she had no one throughout that time. And she could have - even though she was in her 70's it was obvious she had always been an attractive woman. Kennedy's kiss prevented all of that.

You don't trust something as valuable as the scythe to just anyone to take from Willow to the battle - you have to have someone with power in case demons accost you on the way. There is no way you could say Kennedy was playing hooky from the battle - her first comment was, Ì could get used to this.`` And as for Willow wanting a bigger say in things Look at the stupid decisions that were covered over by the MacGuffins of the scythe and the medallion and in fact all the decisions Buffy made. If I were to be sent into a war, I would like as much say about things as possible even though Buffy had said, `We just became an army,`` I don`t see officer material in Buffy.
Willow needed to grieve at her own pace, not have someone force their way into her bed. That's not DEALING, that's abusive and taking advantage.

I have been widowed. I was 32. I have also been remarried. I still love the man I lost after 25 years. You don't 'get over' losing someone the way you get over a bad break up. It's different. (I have also been divorced). My first marriage ended in divorce. But we all get ready for moving on at our own pace. You do 'get over' divorce. It is a different kind of loss. In some ways, widowhood was much simpler... and much harder.

Widowhood is simple because it is absolute. It is a place of clarity.


I did things in the days after I was widowed, I had not had the courage to do. I had lost the greatest thing in my life forever. Nothing anyone could do could hurt as much, they could not take anything from me because I had lost EVERYTHING in one moment, so I was kind of fearless.

But it IS simple. It is finished. You are cut off permanently and irrevocably and you HAVE to move on in some way -- and you are completely unattached in a way you aren't when you get divorced. This can make you both very open AND very vulnerable to the wrong person. (and everyone will judge you if you do move on early, even though they are telling you 'get over it'!)


Divorce is messy.
Widowhood is clean.

A bad divorce can make someone afraid to be in a relationship. So much resentment and hurt, and healing can be hard to find.
Widowhood can make you know EXACTLY what you do want in a relationship... if the relationship worked. But first you must be able to put your pain in your pocket enough to focus on another person or it's not fair to the NEW person.

If the relationship did not work well, widowhood can be a bit like divorce... Except, with more clarity. You know exactly what you NEVER want again. you may have spent years miserable. You grieve, but you are also relieved.

Maybe your neighbor was like that. Or maybe she simply lost her soul mate and didn't want to ever experience that much pain again. I can relate. I fear a second widowhood more than most people. And yet, I also know I will survive it. But I don't WANT to experience it again, though because I'm female and the younger partner, it's likely I will.


Widowhood is also harder because you cannot go back. It's over. You can fix nothing. You can share nothing. They're dead. It always hurts.

Divorce hurt for a while, but I got over it. I let go of the anger and even forgave him (though I would never let him back in my life).

I still grieve the kids I didn't have with the man who died. the places we never went, the future he never got to have. The laughter we shared. The dreams that died.

It is tragic that the lady you knew didn't find someone and lived her live alone, but that is likely abnormal grief and you don't know her circumstances after the loss. Losing a partner when you're really young is very hard (I did). You lose the entire future you were hoping to share with that person, as well as their love and their presence. That is like losing a limb. It will never grow back.

Someone can take the role of husband or partner, but no one can ever replace the dead person. People who tried to hit on me early on were exactly who I didn't want in my life. His death was NOT their opportunity to shove themselves in. I came close to decking one guy. Oddly, the guy who decided to help me with logistics of life after a loss (a virtual stranger I met because of my loss) and who asked for NOTHING and didn't try anything... Well, we've been married for more than 2 decades. :) It happened without either of us trying - within a year. Because he was kind, supportive and RESTRAINED. He was not pushy.

Of my other friends who've lost partners? Some remarry soon. Some years later. Some never do. That isn't always a tragedy, btw. Sometimes you have a great love and you don't want anyone to take their place or try to. Some end up doing other things... travel, creative endeavors, family (kids, grand kids).

People judge ALL of us for whatever choices we make. It's none of their business.

Most people need a year at minimum to get to a point where they truly feel ready to handle and/or want to move forward with someone else.... They may crave sex and contact almost IMMEDIATELY (most who are happily married/partnered have a lot of love to give) -- but even with those feelings, most people need some space to just have their minds clear. Grief brain is NOT a great head space and it really does cloud your thinking. It can greatly screw up your judgment too and that is why predators can take advantage of grieving widows/widowers so easily.

It's why counselors suggest not making any major decisions within the first year (if you can help it).

We are all different. Just as you cannot 'sex the gay out' of a person, you cannot 'sex the grief out' either. People are who they are and need what they need. Just because your one person had complicated and tragic grieving doesn't mean people need to be forced. There is a word for that. It's assault.

Kennedy didn't assault Widow, but she wanted what she wanted, and I think she took advantage of Willow's vulnerability, rather than forming a partnership. They had NO common points other than both being lesbians. Just being the only two people of a particular orientation is NOT grounds for a relationship. I would not grudge anyone a 'get back on the horse' relationship/sexual experience. But it wasn't Willow's desire or need that drove the coming together... and when someone has lost a partner, the first encounter MUST be what THEY want, not them acquiescing to the other person's wants. Come to think of it, ANY coming together should always be truly mutual.
 
thrasherpix
thrasherpix
I wish I had after my major heartbreak (and I did not appreciate the many who tried to snatch me up once I was "back on the market"). And a similar (but not identical) grief requiring time happens after 2 family funerals (+cat of 10 yrs) for me

Priceless

Scooby
Joined
Jan 25, 2016
Messages
6,595
Location
UK
I've always liked Kennedy. I thought she was the best of the potentials, she managed her fears better than most and wanted to fight and learn. I respect that. She was a gay woman and made no apologies for it. She was raised, as most of the wealthy are, to be confident about themselves and their beliefs, and I don't think you can blame Kennedy for that, we are all the products of where we come from.

Kennedy's relationship with Willow was exactly what Willow needed at the time. She wasn't Willow's true love or soul mate (though I don't think that even exists) She was the girl who took Willow on a date, who gave her great sex and helped her regain her confidence. Nothing wrong with that, she did exactly what she was meant to do.

My appreciation of Kennedy is bolstered by the comics. She's great, in that she runs her own Protection agency, employs all the slayers, so giving them gainful employment and allowing them to use their powers. You could argue that she only succeeds through family wealth, but she doesn't just sit on her bum and wait for stuff to be handed to her, she went out, started her own business and does something useful with her life. More power to Kennedy, she's cool :cool:
 

TriBel

Scooby
Joined
Jun 25, 2017
Messages
1,625
Location
Manchester
Tara (or Terra as they pronounce it) alludes to Gaia - the Earth Mother. Kennedy's name refers us to a patriarchal dynasty. I don't think the choice of names is coincidental. That said,

"In 1996, the role of Willow Rosenberg was originally played by Riff Regan for the unaired Buffy pilot, but Hannigan auditioned when the role was being recast for the series proper. Hannigan described her approach to the character through Willow's reaction to a particular moment: Willow sadly tells Buffy that her Barbie doll was taken from her as a child. Buffy asks her if she ever got it back. Willow's line was to reply "most of it". Hannigan decided on an upbeat and happy delivery of the line "most of it", as opposed to a sad, depressed delivery. Hannigan figured Willow would be happy and proud that she got "most of it" back. That indicated how she was going to play the rest of the scene, and the role, for that matter, and defined the character.[90] Her approach subsequently got her the role". Wiki.

I kinda like that Barbie-doll's returned to her in the guise of Ken-doll. I like even more that Ken's missing part of his anatomy but Kennedy's got metaphorical "balls". 😄
 

DeadlyDuo

Scooby
Joined
Jul 29, 2016
Messages
7,544
Age
29
The slayer is like a soldier -- an emotionless tool of another institution (the army is the government's tool, the slayer is beholden to the watchers and a 'primoridal' power). They're fighting a war, but the reality is that war is institutionalised rage, and no matter how respectable Americans think their veterans to be, all soldiers are trained to be killing machines. No room for emotions and Dr. Phil.

Kennedy is a accurate example of what happens to a soldier. They become cold killers...nasty and mean. So did Buffy in season seven. They could have made a brilliant sending off to the show had they harnessed this theme more maturely.
Soldiers don't skive off training exercises just because they don't feel like doing it. Those that try get reprimanded and/or punished.

Kennedy does not pretend to be into the same things as Willow. It would have been more damning if she had feigned interest just to further ensnare Willow.
Nobody is saying that Kennedy should pretend to be into magic, but there is a difference between not liking something yet respecting the other person's interest in it, and telling the other person that you think their interest is "a load of fairy tale crap".

It would be like if someone told you they thought discussing Buffy online with other people was a load of crap but it's okay if you want to carry on doing it. Essentially you've just been told by your new prospective romantic partner that they think something you enjoy doing is stupid and that whilst you can still do it (because they can't stop you), they just wanted you to know how stupid they think it is.

The kiss didn't turn Willow into Warren, Amy's spell did.
Unless Amy cast the spell at the exact moment the kiss happened, then the kiss is what triggered the transformation. The most annoying aspect is that the thing that caused the situation is also then used as the thing that solves it.

Furthermore, the spell was not specific but was intended to look into the target's psyche and determine the most appropriate form to take. Turning her into the person she hated and killed would be an expected response.
Willow was transformed into Tara's killer because she "let her be dead" which Willow considered to be a bad thing she'd done since she was keeping Tara alive in her memory. By kissing Kennedy, Willow felt like she'd just killed Tara (metaphorically) again hence why she turned into Warren because he was the one who killed Tara literally. This causes Willow to cry out to the heavens begging for Tara's forgiveness. That does not scream "ready to move on".

Kennedy's kiss broke the grief long enough to disconnect it from Willow.
This is where the bad writing comes into play. Willow feels like she has betrayed Tara by kissing someone else (again, a big red flag that she's not ready to move on yet), a second kiss from that person doesn't and shouldn't automatically cure those feelings.

Willow feels ashamed to have temporarily moved on
Again, this is proof that Willow isn't ready to move on. When you're ready to move on, you don't feel shame at doing so. This isn't hesitance on Willow's part, this is full blown "I've just betrayed the love of my life, I'm a terrible person, please forgive me!"

Kennedy's kiss prevented all of that.
So basically Kennedy decided she would "save" Willow from her grief by kissing her again even though it was that very action in the first place that has resulted in Willow, not only being transformed into Warren, but also to be in floods of tears and begging Tara for forgiveness and basically having a complete meltdown over it.

You don't trust something as valuable as the scythe to just anyone to take from Willow to the battle - you have to have someone with power in case demons accost you on the way.
At that juncture in time, the only threat to the scythe were from the ubervamps and bringers that were situated around the hole. Willow was able to perform the spell and Kennedy was able to run unimpeded so there was no danger in their vicinity. Also if it was dangerous enough to warrant Kennedy being there with Willow, then she left Willow completely unprotected and in no fit state to protect herself whilst she went off to deliver the scythe. Add in the fact that you have the whole "only she shall wield it" then the scythe is no use to the First or its forces. There was literally no benefit to Caleb and co in digging up the scythe, they couldn't use it so why did they even bother?

There is no way you could say Kennedy was playing hooky from the battle - her first comment was, Ì could get used to this.`` And as for Willow wanting a bigger say in things Look at the stupid decisions that were covered over by the MacGuffins of the scythe and the medallion and in fact all the decisions Buffy made. If I were to be sent into a war, I would like as much say about things as possible even though Buffy had said, `We just became an army,`` I don`t see officer material in Buffy.
You can't have too many people having a say otherwise it becomes chaos, hence why there is always a chain of command. Kennedy is a potential, just like Amanda, Molly, Chloe, Chao-ahn, etc. Why should she get a bigger say over any of them?
 
Top Bottom