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LGBTQ acceptance dropping among Millennials

Blaze

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Black Thorn
But again, why? Why do you think support has dropped? I just assumed it would raise as it becomes more "normal" but it's the opposite. Do you think it's similar to what @The Bronze said? Or what do you think?
There is a big resurgence in conservative ideologies. Just in Ontario we elected a (insert non-family friendly word) who has decided to bring back the sex ed from the 60s. That stuff does not help, education plays a huge part in acceptance. Our generation (millenials) was also raised by homophic parents for the most part. I think some people never truly get over that mentality. I think now more than ever in our political climate people are more open about disaproving of being gay, bi, trans etc. Especially when it comes to gender, a lot of the terms are recent (even though those people have always existed), so I can see that there is more and more homophobia and transphobia as the language evolves to include more identities.

I also think it does not help that a lot of the LGBT history is all but erased because a whole generation of LGBT people being wiped out by the AIDS epidemic (at least in the States). A lot of young people never got to meet older LGBT people and get educated. Again, a lot comes down to education. (And I don't mean just in school, I mean meeting and interacting with LGBT people).
 

Spanky

I'm came here to chew bubblegum and go off topic.
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Black Thorn
So, there is a general culture of paranoia over ungrounded lawsuits, and people pay undue attention to the ones coming from LGBTQ people, using them as a scapegoat to draw attention away from workers' rights?
In general I wouldn't say that, no.

because a whole generation of LGBT people being wiped out by the AIDS epidemic (at least in the States). A lot of young people never got to meet older LGBT people and get educated.
That's really interesting. I never thought about that before.
 

DeadlyDuo

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Like @Puppet said, I think people are just getting fed up by media constantly pushing political correctness. If you treat something normally, it would be accepted as normal. If you make a song and dance about it, people get annoyed.

The supposed planned Buffy reboot is an example of this. When it was first announced, the first thing they said is they were looking for a black Buffy. Why? Why can't they just have actresses audition and if the best one is POC so be it. Why deliberately make an issue over the character's race?

Another example is them trying to turn male characters into women. They got away with it with The Doctor, though it still felt unnecessary, yet they're trying to push for a female Bond. Why can't they just create new characters instead of gender swapping male ones that people love. What's next, Hannah Solo?

With all the fanfare for "minority" groups going on such as women, LGBT, POC , etc going on in the media, it seems that if you are a straight white male then you are the lowest of the low because of the fact that in the past straight white males had the advantage.
 
white avenger
white avenger
You can add a black Tarzan to your list, which is absurd, since he is supposed to be the son of British nobility, raised by "apes" when his parents died in the jungle.
AmberMissy
AmberMissy
The only reason that LGBTQIA+ peeps make a song and dance about it is because we still don't have the equality that cis, het people tend to assume we do. :'(

TriBel

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And that goes back to the original post as I don't see backlash which is why I was surprised the number dropped in the last two years.
I wasn't. There's been a rise in the number of hate crimes reported to the police in the UK.

From the article:
She added: “There is a tension, and even within our own LGBT community there is a tension. I believe it’s a direct result of people feeling unsafe due to rise of the rightwing political movement.

“What we see in our services is lots of people experience day-to-day verbal attacks or violence and aggressive language and homophobic attitudes … We do believe the political climate has had an impact: people feel unsafe. What is happening in central government and all the scapegoating has an effect. We saw a spike [in racist attacks] after Brexit and there has been a steady increase since then.”

Jessica White, who leads hate crime reporting work at the LGBT Foundation, an organisation based in Manchester, said the rise could be linked to an increased awareness of hate crime and its reporting."

A greater willingness to report, the ease with which a report can be made because of the ubiquitous mobile/cell phone etc. always needs to be taken into consideration when looking at a rise in reported crime. However, this isn't pertinent to the article you linked to. I think the general feeling, particularly on the left, is it's a lack of tolerance linked to the rise of the (far) right.

On the question of terminology, my institution seems to be getting round it by using "they" instead of he/she. If I know a student identifies as non binary I ask them which pronoun they prefer.
 
Spanky
Spanky
I guess we are still to hung up on black vs white vs brown here. I notice much more of than than I do homophobic crimes.

WillowFromBuffy

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I don't think it is a backlash. It is simply the case of being an obvious target. People are often angry and frustrated, and they want to vent their anger at someone who can't hit back. LGBTQ people stand out from the norm.

That is why there is an LGBTQ community. If there wasn't, then any gay or gender-non-conforming person would stand completely on their own. If you are an immigrant or part of an ethnic minority, you will be part of a community from birth. LGBTQ people have to find each other.

A racist wouldn't go into an immigrant neighbourhood and pick a fight with a large group of youths walking down the street. Shouting a slur at a couple of gay teenagers on the night bus is much safer, and I guess it gives the power rush the disenfranchised feel they need.

In many villages in my country, straight people are arranging Pride parades, because the queer people have all fled into the cities. I read about it in the newspaper. In some bigger places, they have gotten people to come from LGBTQ-organisations in the cities to help with the organising. (I'm not talking about straight pride parades, but about LGBTQ pride parades without any LGBTQ people in attendance.) These are mostly places that fear extinction, because so few young people return home after uni, and so they desperately want to appear hip and welcoming. Often it is better to be proactive, so you don't have try to amend the problem after the fact.
In general I wouldn't say that, no.
But aren't you? Unless I'm misunderstanding, you're saying that employees are terrified of being let go without cause and not be able to find a new job or claim benefits, while employers are terrified of being sued by desperate ex-employees. That really has nothing to do with LGBTQ-people or issue really, does it?
 
Spanky
Spanky
No, I'm not saying that at all. It's not like its a state of fear. I don't think anyone is terrified. Maybe more terrified of the business closing than anything else.

Octavia

My arse is not pansy!
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Sineya
Even my gay friends hate the lgbwtf culture. They were against marriage "equality" too, they considered themselves joined by legal civil union 10 years before the hoopla.

My step sister, and most on facebook on the other hand, turned NASTY around 2015. I duno what intergallactic change happened, but something did.

The extreme hatered towards religion and spirituality is what turned me right off supporting that movement in any way. Before that, I feel there was far more acceptance all round. The marriage debate made us pick sides.

I've also worked with trans children from psych wards and I cannot support the excessive drugging that the trans community supports. These poor kids were confused by the medical system as much as they were by their genitals. And then come the hormones. Hormones are bad enough, let alone pumping people full of synthetic ones for body shape fashion.
 
r2dh2
r2dh2
what is lgbwtf?

Ethan Reigns

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Makes me almost wistful for the days when vorchan was trying to get us to wish Willow was straight. I don't know if he ever got banned but we sort of gave him enough of the cold shoulder to realize he was getting nowhere. No one on the board accepted his idea of "I love Willow, I just wish she was straight."
 

thrasherpix

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Many of the loudest voices on both sides are the worst enemy of their movement. I think if either side could manage to silence their more obnoxious (and typically hypocritical) members then that side would win by default as everyone else sick of hearing about it all the time turned on the one still spewing bile over the topic. As it is, some of the more abrasive members on both sides (including those who claim to be for social justice but don't actually seem to understand what equality means, what "love conquers hate" means, and may even just be exploiting such issues for personal power and status) seem to me to contribute to any backlash.

Though for what it's worth, a community college I know of isn't bad at all (at least not in this regard). Most of the students there are more interested in video games and anime than social issues (they have their small minority that lives up to the "SJW" stereotype, and another small minority that is just as abrasive opposed to them, most of the rest just try to stay out of their way), and the one time that something racial became a big deal was, IMO, well deserved (which I don't automatically think). I was especially relieved when the campus library joined public libraries in opposing censorship, which included defending books like The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn (and as there was no protest against that, it tells me that the more ridiculous types that seem legion on tumblr just don't hold much of a presence there).

I'm not surprised that tolerance is waning in some places (mainly because people feel safer in showing their true colors than they were before, on top of being fanned by people encouraging them, and provoked by people being verbally abusive and threatening to them over it, online for the most part, though the BAFFLING popularity of Alex Jones would also contribute to it), but I've been spared that for the most part. (It happens, but it still hasn't gotten as bad as it was in the 90s and early 2000s, and I'm still more hopeful for the future than I was back then. It really helps when I avoid the more toxic places of the internet that engage in these culture wars, the world looks so much better as a result when I realize how relatively few the toxic ones on both sides are, being the loudest doesn't make one the majority, though their rants do filter somewhat to what everyday people say.)


I'm only aware of one lawsuit which had an impact that I could experience (though I know of some that were threatened, some that I thought were deserved, and others not so much). Right after Trump became POTUS, a social worker in charge of a homeless shelter (one of the better ones with a waiting list that does so much more than shelter the homeless) became mind blowing racist in obvious ways (like denying a meal to a Black guy and saying "watch your step you f- n-" in front of everyone else). The board of directors who funded that shelter and other programs, either to protect their social (nonprofit) investment or because (I hope this is the case) they were exceedingly shocked and offended by such blatant racism which they also felt violated their mission statement, removed that social worker from his job immediately (good for them).

However, the lawsuit still went through which cost them (don't know the details, I think it was settled out of court) and now that shelter (which I've volunteered at after this happened) has very strict rules, you can't even play rap music or a movie that uses the N-word, even if it's shown in a bad light (that is, condemning it's use) and it's strictly enforced (volunteers and social workers who don't enforce it, let alone violate it, are out of there). They are also strict about words or actions that could be deemed contemptuous or worse to anyone gay or transgendered for the same reason (fear of a lawsuit).

Interesting enough, other shelters, more religiously motivated, also made concessions to transgendered and the like, presumably to avoid similar lawsuits (though strangely, they still enforce a ban against all marijuana use despite legality), which they almost certainly did through gritted teeth (before this it was an open secret that if you were known to not be heterosexual and heteronormative not to go there, though meth heads were welcome, of course, going to show they really do think drug addiction is more of a choice that could be cured with Bible therapy while being gay or whatever is not, though still no doing drugs on the property, just as heterosexual sex is banned on property).

But I don't recall there being a lot of stress over it, at least not at the 2 places I volunteered directly affected by this lawsuit. Though sometimes certain movies had to be turned off (technically music as well, but as most just used headphones it was usually a non-issue) which caused grumbling and/or apologetic shrugs, it was considered a trivial annoyance rather than the end of the world.

Interesting enough (and I have no idea why this is), at least half the women who worked or volunteered there (including me), and same for the women who stayed there, either identified as bi or lesbian (openly gay men were very rare), and for the most part we were accepted by about everyone, the more friendly of us were even more popular than the other staff and volunteers. I could go on (including about a transgendered person), but technically I've said too much as it is already (though I no longer volunteer there for completely unrelated reasons), and this is long enough anyway. Not everyone was supportive of the strict policy, but I don't think it was more than an annoyance to them.
 
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The Bronze

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I have a couple more thoughts on this. People have already mentioned the rise of the far right. Certainly in the UK and USA recent elections have validated those with hateful ideologies. It's not that everyone voting a certain way is awful, its that a section of awful people feel that their crap is now perfectly acceptable.

Aside from that though I think there's an ideological battle under way that has different lines than traditional right & left or whatever. Authoritarianism is on the rise all over. China, Russia, North Korea, Turkey, UAE for obvious established examples. Other countries and leaders are quite keen to follow suit as well. See Trump drooling over Kim's power over his people. It's not limited to countries though. It's in culture as well. That's where people who might normally have been allies suddenly find they're on opposite sides of the line.

A few examples I can think of. France promotes secularism. I broadly agree with the principle of making sure religion doesn't over step its bounds. However that's lead to people banning burkinis. I can't get behind that, literally who cares if a woman wants to wear a wetsuit in the water?

In America I believe they have huge issues with race due to the legacy of slavery and segregation. Yet there's videos of black people marching up to white people and getting in their face because they've got dreads. You don't own a hair style. Get over it.

Then to bring it back to the topic here. In films you now have a movement of people advocating that actors should only play themselves. People saying Will Smith wasn't black enough to play a black man and that straight people shouldn't be allowed to play gay people. Completely missing the point of acting in my opinion. Anyway that's another of my theories of why there's probably some backlash.
 
thrasherpix
thrasherpix
Both social media and politicians have learned going extreme gets more clicks which means more support, ad revenue, etc. It essentially exploits our tribal natures for profit and power without the jerkdom curtailing factors that real life often has

nightshade

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That's part of it, I think, the 'in you face' way that they force it everywhere. Understandable, of course, but some people would get irritated with constant exposure.
I do think that this is a big part of it, I mean did my bank really need to change their logo to pride colours?

I also think people have moved on to the next big thing, this feels like it was last season's trendy thing to support.
 
AmberMissy
AmberMissy
June is PRIDE month - your bank logo will probably change back to normal in July, and then the bank can ignore LGBTQIA+ Peeps for another year.

WillowFromBuffy

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The extreme hatered towards religion and spirituality is what turned me right off supporting that movement in any way.
Well, the reason why there's a backlash against religion is pretty simply. Pretty much all atheists grew up in religious homes and communities and many had experiences that have made them bitter and resentful. LGBT people who have left (escaped) faith communities as adults often have much more reason to be resentful.

And it is pretty obvious that religious people still hate LGBT people much more than LGBT people hate them back. Many LGBT people who have become estranged from their families and the community they grew up with would like to reconnect but only if they feel can feel accepted there for who they are.

Many faith communities have become more accepting of LGBT people, and so there is no conflict and many LGBT people keep their faith as adults.
I do think that this is a big part of it, I mean did my bank really need to change their logo to pride colours?
Do they need a Christmas tree?

Seriously, being in England during Christmas can be a bit of a shock. You better not have epilepsy.
 

Buffy Summers

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It would be interesting if they had polled on LGBQ and Trans/non-binary separately, to see what the answer was there. I'm not sure I trust polling data though lol
 
thrasherpix
thrasherpix
That occurred to me as well. If things are getting better than groups who fight for gay rights and the like will be doing worse, and lots of groups, on the Left and the Right, try to keep their members in a state of anxiety so they keep giving money

nightshade

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Do they need a Christmas tree?

Seriously, being in England during Christmas can be a bit of a shock. You better not have epilepsy.
Actually a lot of places no longer do this, but you are saying that the lgbt community is the same as a religious festival.
 
AmberMissy
AmberMissy
PRIDE month is actually more important than Christmas. At least it's about real people who are currently alive and not being treated equal, instead of being about a stolen festival made up to try and convert Pagans to Christianity.

WillowFromBuffy

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Actually a lot of places no longer do this, but you are saying that the lgbt community is the same as a religious festival.
Not at all. The excessive Christmas decoration is a just a hegemonic culture flaunting its dominance. There's no real purpose to the loudness, aside from the joy of it and stimulating the market economy. The Pride parades have a more serious purpose. I don't think it is an exaggeration to say that the struggle is existential. Homosexuality was in the DSM until 1987. LGBT people are victims of extreme violence around the world, sometimes sanctioned by governments, sometimes simply ignored.

Its a bizarre catch 22, if you can't have pride, because LGBT people are supposedly far too accepted, so if you have pride, you create a backlash that validates the need pride. If pride eventually becomes an event that is celebrated just for the sake of itself, like Christmas, then I think that would be a good thing, but I don't think we are likely to get there so ... or ever.
 

katmobile

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Care to elaborate? I am surprised. It's all you see and hear about. At least here.
I think I've seen the shift amongst this incredibly toxic internet reactionary so-called 'sceptic' culture that came out of gamergate that's let a lot of very unpleasant far-right people in. Also we're seeing politics on both sides of the Atlantic drifting worrying towards the far right IMO. I'm not mentioning President Cartman as I'll get dogpiled but we're getting our version in the UK by the look of it soon. It's all very depressing.
 

Buffy Summers

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I think part of the backlash is defining/assuming people's views based on their race, religion, political affiliation, sexual orientation etc, and people being fed up with that and standing up to it.
 

katmobile

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Like @Puppet said, I think people are just getting fed up by media constantly pushing political correctness. If you treat something normally, it would be accepted as normal. If you make a song and dance about it, people get annoyed.

The supposed planned Buffy reboot is an example of this. When it was first announced, the first thing they said is they were looking for a black Buffy. Why? Why can't they just have actresses audition and if the best one is POC so be it. Why deliberately make an issue over the character's race?

Another example is them trying to turn male characters into women. They got away with it with The Doctor, though it still felt unnecessary, yet they're trying to push for a female Bond. Why can't they just create new characters instead of gender swapping male ones that people love. What's next, Hannah Solo?

With all the fanfare for "minority" groups going on such as women, LGBT, POC , etc going on in the media, it seems that if you are a straight white male then you are the lowest of the low because of the fact that in the past straight white males had the advantage.
What people who claim about that fail to realise is that how much straight people talk about their relationships even without thinking about it - i.e what you did at the weekend and went to see with their straight SO or date. If someone who is gay does that then some will interpret that as 'shoving it down people's throats'.

The whole point about the black Buffy of the reboot was a different perspective and dealing with different issues also Buffy did a lot of things well but it tended to lean into racial strereotypes. Amber Benson when asked about this said if there is to a Tara-like character that they should be trans to get different sorts of people represented. The one reason why I'm fairly accepting of trans people is because although there weren't a lot of high profile ones growing up there was Caroline Cossey talking about her experiences.
 
brinkster130
brinkster130
Good point

Cohen

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The change was most pronounced among Millennial men.
This I think is the rise in toxic masculinity rhetoric, and the changing “norms” of what it means to be a man. There is also more media coverage of transgendered people, and I think the misunderstandings of these people play a large factor in the “uncomfortableness”. Of course, most people are uncomfortable with differences from other people. I’d like to see how this survey was worded to see why the change was so significant. Mostly, I think polls are generally hogwash and hold very little true value. A survey sample of any measure up to the millions is ineffective because it truly doesn’t test a variety of people.
 

DeadlyDuo

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What people who claim about that fail to realise is that how much straight people talk about their relationships even without thinking about it - i.e what you did at the weekend and went to see with their straight SO or date. If someone who is gay does that then some will interpret that as 'shoving it down people's throats'.
What part of my post is this supposedly related to? I'm not talking about gay people discussing relationships, I'm talking about how the media fanfares certain demographics eg the first female Doctor, Captain Marvel being the first female led superhero movie, etc. It's where the media uses political correctness as a selling point for a product.

The whole point about the black Buffy of the reboot was a different perspective and dealing with different issues also Buffy did a lot of things well but it tended to lean into racial strereotypes. Amber Benson when asked about this said if there is to a Tara-like character that they should be trans to get different sorts of people represented. The one reason why I'm fairly accepting of trans people is because although there weren't a lot of high profile ones growing up there was Caroline Cossey talking about her experiences.
The point isn't that there shouldn't be a black Buffy, it's that they're using it the fact she's going to be black as a selling point. A character's race shouldn't matter, you get the best person for the job eg Samuel L Jackson as Nick Fury (despite the fact that Fury was white in the comics). They didn't make a big thing out of that and people pretty much accepted it without a fuss. Besides the fact that fans aren't exactly clamouring for a reboot (due to the fact the original series is so great and holds up well), it seems the whole reboot idea is based around changing the characters race. The pitch meeting probably went something like this:

TV Executive: I don't think there's a hunger for a Buffy reboot, the original series is still popular. What's the unique selling point of this reboot you're proposing?

Pitcher: This time we're going to.....wait for it......make Buffy black!
 
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AmberMissy
AmberMissy
I thought it was confirmed that there isn't going to be a "reboot" anyway, so it's not even an issue, it's going to be a new series that's BASED on Buffy, so it might be that they make the main character a person of colour, but why not.
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