LGBTQ acceptance dropping among Millennials

[Name the Stars]

That is just not true. Today is nothing like the 60s. Just because liberal politicians say Trump and conservatives are racist, doesn’t make it true. If anyone in government is racist, it is the Democratic officials who gain power by trying to keep people of color dependent on the government and inciting racism.

I may be wrong about this (I'm from a different country), but I'm pretty sure that Trump has been fairly overtly racist. Here's just a few racist things that
Trump has said.

Trump said that Nigerian immigrants wouldn't ever "go back to their huts" in Africa
Before his career as a politician, Trump allegedly wouldn't rent to black people back in the 1970s. This led to his company being sued twice by the Justice Department for discrimination.
Trump retweeted an anti-Semitic meme.
He accused Barack Obama of not being born in the U.S, despite a real birth certificate.
Trump once said, "Laziness is a trait in blacks. It really is, I believe that,"
In neo-Nazi attacks, Trump claimed that there were "good people on both sides"
He also has commonly referred to all Mexicans as rapists.

I believe that this probably makes him racist. Also, of course not all conservatives are racist! But they are certainly not less racist than progressives.

 

[Taake]

I think the strides in knowing that it isn’t okay to say or think those things. Inner prejudice will always be there. But Trump made it okay to be overt about it. As it was in the 60s.

Personally my view isnt this bleak, I think real strides have been made, not just suppression of vocality. I don’t think a 2% drop in a poll indicates anything like the attitudes of my grandparents generation in the general public. Besides, if it did, then Trump has little to do with it, because suppression indicates that this would inevitably bubble up to the surface at some point and pointing to one guy saying ”he did it!” Is reductionist.

Last week, my eldest son was crossing the road on his way back from work (5.30ish) when a man came behind him and said "Get out of my way you f-word, F-word for a gay man (family friendly board 😉 )". My son's gay but not obviously so. He's open about it but he doesn't flaunt it. He still doesn't know whether the term was a direct reference to his sexuality or whether it was being used as a general insult. Either way, it angered and upset him.

On the 17 June 2016 (I know the date - it was the day after the murder of the British MP Jo Cox by a man with connections to far right groups here and in the US (see Wiki)*. It was also a week before the EU referendum) I heard a group of Christian Fundamentalists preaching in Manchester City Centre. They claimed all gay people were going to Hell. One "very nice" woman explained to me that gay people were genetically flawed. It wasn't "their fault", they were like "children with Downs Syndrome". On the train back I joined up the dots and had a horrible epiphany. It became absolutely clear to me that a) prejudices hadn't changed as much as I thought they had and b) the political situation here and in the US had emboldened people.

As far as I'm concerned, the earlier incident was people vocalizing an opinion (I voiced mine - I wasn't as polite). The recent one wasn't "speaking his mind" or showing hidden prejudice - it was out and out aggression from a guy who felt entitled to say what he said. That it happened within the University Quarter and 400 yards from Manchester's Gay Village (a "safe space" in a city that prides itself on being gay friendly) is - I think - even scarier.

*"He believed individuals of liberal and left-wing political viewpoints, and the mainstream media, were the cause of the world's problems"

It does suck that it seems like that was a general insult flung at your son, but I fail to see how one shitty person can represent an entire generation (as this thread is about). And similar with the ”nice” woman. These people seem like they would’ve been comfortable vocing their opinion regardless of Trump, I doubt that was the woman’s first day out, or the angry guys first time dropping that word (can you say for sure neither of these incidents could’ve happened in 2014? 2010?). Basically, I fail to see how these two anecdotes have swung us back to the 60’s. They seem like the vocal minority who’ve always been vocal, and do not reoresent the mainstream view. Suppressing their opinion, if that was indeed done pre-2016 as claimed, was in that case doomed to fail because it’d inevitably bubble to the surface.

But based on what you are saying, it seems to me, that silence has been taken as consent or acceptance and now it is upsetting to find out that it was just silence.

Again, I don’t have that bleak of a view and I think there is a lot more playing into all this than politics, but overall I think callbacks to bygone era’s are a bit hyperbolic and ignores the strides that’ve been made, in a very reductionist way as mentioned.

 

[katmobile]

That is just not true. Today is nothing like the 60s. Just because liberal politicians say Trump and conservatives are racist, doesn’t make it true. If anyone in government is racist, it is the Democratic officials who gain power by trying to keep people of color dependent on the government and inciting racism.

That's a load of hoey if Trump isn't willing to condemn a bunch of overt neo Nazis at Charlesville who murdered someone then he's so affliated with racists as to be as though he is one - the truth is he doesn't care as long as they support him. His policies are flagantly anti Mexican and anti Moslims some of whom are peaceful.
Ann Widdicombe has always been a bigottted Christian fundamentalist and she's had power before sadly.

 

[DeadlyDuo]

Apparently in the next Bond movie they're going to have a black female 007, though she won't be Bond. How do you feel about this?

I think it's unnecessary and very much the PC brigade out in force (just make her disabled and lesbian or transgender then they've ticked all the boxes). My guess is that they're going to use it to test the waters and if it's somewhat well received then they're going to go full on female Bond.

In relation to this thread, I think people are getting fed up with political correctness forcing its way into practically everything. It's oversaturation. That doesn't mean they're against any minority group but the fact that they're redoing old stuff just to add political correctness to it, it's annoying.

 

[thetopher]

I think the decline is due to the trend towards identity politics on the left of the political spectrum which leads itself to dogmatic rhetoric and confrontational attitudes. There's no empowerment narrative anymore just the struggle of the oppressed against the oppressors and the grab for power, the weaponization of victim-hood and which group can accrue the most oppression points.

It's one thing to be welcoming and supportive towards those struggling for equality and fairness but its another thing entirely to look favorably towards those who are screaming at you about 'privileged cis white males' of the patriarchy oppressing them with their rigid definitions of gender or some crap. It wears on the nerves and makes people unsympathetic to those who have a genuine need for sympathy or understanding.
But from the more extreme radical parts of feminism becoming more vocal/mainstream to the TERFS warring with some in the trans movement, to everything about society now being 'inherently problematic' to intersectionality, its just getting very, very noisy out there went it comes to different 'identity groups'; and rightly or wrongly that's going to affect how people view some in the LGBT+ community.

The struggles of the gay and lesbian community have been taking place over the course of decades against a backdrop of religious bigotry and real, palpable societal unfairness and prejudice.
In comparison the newer trans movement has moved incredibly rapidly within just a few years and with very little opposition despite making many alarming claims that are very far from credible; a lot of it actually flies in the face of actual scientific evidence and some of the practices- such as the suppression of hormones in 'gender-confused' children- is incredibly dangerous.

I recently met a mother outside a pre-school who had decided 'not to give her children genders' until they were old enough to decide for themselves. Here's a thought; children don't know jack, because they're children. It is not healthy or good parenting to pander to trendy gender politics. Kids need rules and boundaries and structure and all sorts of other stuff because they don't know any better. Nothing wrong with that, they're in the process of growing up.
When I was 8 I wanted to be an actual fire engine but my parents didn't shove a ladder up my bum and point me at the nearest neighborhood blaze.

...Not the same, obviously, and there are some- a infinitesimally small amount- who are affected by gender issues, but society does not need to undergo some radical transformation to cater to those tragically affected. And it doesn't need attention-seekers turning an important psychological issue into some kind of fashion statement, that's idiocy.


It's interesting that this thread has devolved into 'its totally Trumps' fault' which is always an argument that smacks of intellectual laziness; like those 17th century puritans who blamed everything on witches or Satan lol. But that's identity politics for you; blame an individual/group for a trend that you don't like; they voted the way you didn't like/believe in something you do not so they, the group, are evil. Hell they're probably just Nazis or Islamophobic or something so no need to engage; just dox them or De-platform them or punch them or throw things on them.
A lot of the 'facts' stated here about Trumps supposed racism are just plain ignorant, and this is coming from someone who considers him somewhat of an idiot.

 

[Cohen]

The Trump rallies of the 2016 presidential election were absolutely indicative of Trump’s prejudiced beliefs, and made it okay for people to be vocally and physically prejudiced—the likes of which haven’t been seen in decades. His people were and continue to praise him for his prejudiced thoughts and we have seen a rise in racial, religious, sexual, and homophobic hate crimes since the 2016 presidential race. His rallies were, and are, scarily similar to Hitler rallies. And the other government officials have done nothing to abhor this behavior. So yes, I view Trump as reigniting overt hatred and prejudice.

@Buffy Summers could you further explain how the liberals and Democrats are being racially oppressive?

 

[katmobile]

I think the decline is due to the trend towards identity politics on the left of the political spectrum which leads itself to dogmatic rhetoric and confrontational attitudes. There's no empowerment narrative anymore just the struggle of the oppressed against the oppressors and the grab for power, the weaponization of victim-hood and which group can accrue the most oppression points.

It's one thing to be welcoming and supportive towards those struggling for equality and fairness but its another thing entirely to look favorably towards those who are screaming at you about 'privileged cis white males' of the patriarchy oppressing them with their rigid definitions of gender or some crap. It wears on the nerves and makes people unsympathetic to those who have a genuine need for sympathy or understanding.
But from the more extreme radical parts of feminism becoming more vocal/mainstream to the TERFS warring with some in the trans movement, to everything about society now being 'inherently problematic' to intersectionality, its just getting very, very noisy out there went it comes to different 'identity groups'; and rightly or wrongly that's going to affect how people view some in the LGBT+ community.

The struggles of the gay and lesbian community have been taking place over the course of decades against a backdrop of religious bigotry and real, palpable societal unfairness and prejudice.
In comparison the newer trans movement has moved incredibly rapidly within just a few years and with very little opposition despite making many alarming claims that are very far from credible; a lot of it actually flies in the face of actual scientific evidence and some of the practices- such as the suppression of hormones in 'gender-confused' children- is incredibly dangerous.

I recently met a mother outside a pre-school who had decided 'not to give her children genders' until they were old enough to decide for themselves. Here's a thought; children don't know jack, because they're children. It is not healthy or good parenting to pander to trendy gender politics. Kids need rules and boundaries and structure and all sorts of other stuff because they don't know any better. Nothing wrong with that, they're in the process of growing up.
When I was 8 I wanted to be an actual fire engine but my parents didn't shove a ladder up my bum and point me at the nearest neighborhood blaze.

...Not the same, obviously, and there are some- a infinitesimally small amount- who are affected by gender issues, but society does not need to undergo some radical transformation to cater to those tragically affected. And it doesn't need attention-seekers turning an important psychological issue into some kind of fashion statement, that's idiocy.


It's interesting that this thread has devolved into 'its totally Trumps' fault' which is always an argument that smacks of intellectual laziness; like those 17th century puritans who blamed everything on witches or Satan lol. But that's identity politics for you; blame an individual/group for a trend that you don't like; they voted the way you didn't like/believe in something you do not so they, the group, are evil. Hell they're probably just Nazis or Islamophobic or something so no need to engage; just dox them or De-platform them or punch them or throw things on them.
A lot of the 'facts' stated here about Trumps supposed racism are just plain ignorant, and this is coming from someone who considers him somewhat of an idiot.

The trans movement aside from being 'far from credible is actually endorsed by science and originally existed alongside the gay movement but then some gay and lesbians ditched them for greater acceptability for themselves. The hormone suppression in 'confused' kids has no effect if they those to develop 'normally' later they do just later if they don't they are spared the pain of developing in the wrong body. The World Health Organisation recognises transgenderism and I've known about it since the 80s Caroline Cossey who ironically appeared in Bond films was compagning for greater trans rights since the 80s possibly since the late 70s. It's not a trendy new phonemem as for harassment there's footage of the cops harassing and misgendering a Native American trans woman. It's just come more to light as gay marriage has been adopted. Talk about ID politics when you're effectively running your own oppression olympics. Representation matters and it's important to see yourself reflected in media. Go watch Passion of the Nerd's episode guide for the War Zone where he explains this. Seriously you'd love his one for 5 by 5. It's just all strikes me as whining wah we don't want chracters that aren't like us despite the fact that most chracters are as can you imagine The Shawshank Redemption being the film it was without Morgan Freeman because in the book his character was an Irish white guy named Red because he was a redhead.

 

[katmobile]

Also the whole point of hormone blockers is to delay puberty until the 'kids' are old enough I think it's until 16 in the UK that's old enough to consent to sex or smoke cigarettes also big grown up decisions. It's left so puberty is delayed until you're as mentally mature as you can be.

 

[thetopher]

The trans movement aside from being 'far from credible is actually endorsed by science

No, there's endorsement by SOME doctors but there's still plenty of debate to be had.

The hormone suppression in 'confused' kids has no effect if they those to develop 'normally' later they do just later if they don't they are spared the pain of developing in the wrong body.

Your kidding right? Hormones have incredibly powerful effects on a human and denying them to a body (even for a limited amount of time) has permanent effects on a person.
As for the so-called long-term benefits look at the astronomical suicide rates amongst those its been done to. The results are scary.

The World Health Organisation recognises transgenderism

Well I never said that transgerism wasn't a thing just that its actually quite rare, statistically speaking.

It's not a trendy new phonemem

No, but many at treating it like a trend or fad to pick up and put down at will. Did you know that there are somehow now apparently over a hundred brand new genders?

There's a lot of attention seekers out there who just 'want to be different' and then gain the 'I'm an oppressed' cache. It's sad.

Talk about ID politics when you're effectively running your own oppression olympics.

Identity politics is about nothing but labeling people and suppressing opinions. It's obnoxious. And no, I am neither oppressing people with my very existence not whining about diversity. The rest of your post has nothing to do with what I said.

 

[Anyanka Bunny Slayer]

That's a load of hoey if Trump isn't willing to condemn a bunch of overt neo Nazis at Charlesville who murdered someone then he's so affliated with racists as to be as though he is one - the truth is he doesn't care as long as they support him. His policies are flagantly anti Mexican and anti Moslims some of whom are peaceful.
Ann Widdicombe has always been a bigottted Christian fundamentalist and she's had power before sadly.

Just because the President doesn't condemn every single group that whining, Democratic bedwetters want him to, it doesn't make him "racist." At this point, the constant shrieks and unfounded accusations directed at Mr Trump have become extremely moronic.

The vast majority of Democratic crybabies are simply repeating what they've heard from the leftwing media. No one is actually thinking for themselves. You're jumping on a bandwagon without forming an original thought. His policies are anti-Mexican? Wrong. His policies are pro-American. He's the first president to actually address the HUGE problem of illegal immigration, unlike that grinning marionette, Barrack Obama. But sadly, half of Mexico is already here, illegally, receiving benefits they're NOT entitled to, popping out thousands of babies, and basically sucking up money, housing, schooling that we can ill-afford. Thank God for the current ICE raids, because this bullshit needs to stop.

American Veterans, seniors, and young families are living on the street. Why is it that THEY don't qualify for housing and food stamps, but illegals do? Why aren't you "champions of freedom" marching in the streets for THEM?

@Buffy Summers could you further explain how the liberals and Democrats are being racially oppressive?

Obviously, she can answer this question herself; but I'm going to throw my two cents in.

Liberals and Democrats want to censor every opinion that doesn't conform with theirs. Their modus operandi is to scream, "Homophobe! Racist! Sexist!" whenever someone dares to express a view which differs from theirs. The sadly pathetic truth is, they don't want to discuss anything. They just want to shut everyone else down. Period. Like demented toddlers having a temper tantrum, they whine and throw themselves onto the floor. "No! You can't say that! It's wrong and you're bad!"

These people aren't even willing to consider opposing views, but expect everyone else to accept their opinions as "truth". And if anyone dares to disagree, they're immediately persecuted. Rabid Democrats are a lot like Hitler's followers.

 

[Mr Trick]

There

Just because the President doesn't condemn every single group that whining, Democratic bedwetters want him to, it doesn't make him "racist." At this point, the constant shrieks and unfounded accusations directed at Mr Trump have become extremely moronic.

The vast majority of Democratic crybabies are simply repeating what they've heard from the leftwing media. No one is actually thinking for themselves. You're jumping on a bandwagon without forming an original thought. His policies are anti-Mexican? Wrong. His policies are pro-American. He's the first president to actually address the HUGE problem of illegal immigration, unlike that grinning marionette, Barrack Obama. But sadly, half of Mexico is already here, illegally, receiving benefits they're NOT entitled to, popping out thousands of babies, and basically sucking up money, housing, schooling that we can ill-afford. Thank God for the current ICE raids, because this bullshit needs to stop.

American Veterans, seniors, and young families are living on the street. Why is it that THEY don't qualify for housing and food stamps, but illegals do? Why aren't you "champions of freedom" marching in the streets for THEM?


Obviously, she can answer this question herself; but I'm going to throw my two cents in.

Liberals and Democrats want to censor every opinion that doesn't conform with theirs. Their modus operandi is to scream, "Homophobe! Racist! Sexist!" whenever someone dares to express a view which differs from theirs. The sadly pathetic truth is, they don't want to discuss anything. They just want to shut everyone else down. Period. Like demented toddlers having a temper tantrum, they whine and throw themselves onto the floor. "No! You can't say that! It's wrong and you're bad!"

These people aren't even willing to consider opposing views, but expect everyone else to accept their opinions as "truth". And if anyone dares to disagree, they're immediately persecuted. Rabid Democrats are a lot like Hitler's followers.

Did you miss @Name the Stars previous post with these quotes from the Trump?

Trump said that Nigerian immigrants wouldn't ever "go back to their huts" in Africa
Before his career as a politician, Trump allegedly wouldn't rent to black people back in the 1970s. This led to his company being sued twice by the Justice Department for discrimination.
Trump retweeted an anti-Semitic meme.
He accused Barack Obama of not being born in the U.S, despite a real birth certificate.
Trump once said, "Laziness is a trait in blacks. It really is, I believe that,"
In neo-Nazi attacks, Trump claimed that there were "good people on both sides"
He also has commonly referred to all Mexicans as rapists.

I think comments and actions like those go beyond just not condemning racist groups. That's what I don't get about people who defend Trump on this issue. Its not like he's left any room for doubt. Racist words have come out of his mouth multiple times.

Its funny that you accuse the left wing media of shouting down people who disagree with when Trump tries to censor anyone who challenges him. He bans journalists who oppose his policies. He avoids talking about issues people who challenge him or about issues that might paint him in a bad light.

 

[nightshade]

You already have a thread talking about Trump, let's keep this one on topic

 

[Anyanka Bunny Slayer]

Trump said that Nigerian immigrants wouldn't ever "go back to their huts" in Africa
Before his career as a politician, Trump allegedly wouldn't rent to black people back in the 1970s. This led to his company being sued twice by the Justice Department for discrimination.
Trump retweeted an anti-Semitic meme.
He accused Barack Obama of not being born in the U.S, despite a real birth certificate.
Trump once said, "Laziness is a trait in blacks. It really is, I believe that,"
In neo-Nazi attacks, Trump claimed that there were "good people on both sides"
He also has commonly referred to all Mexicans as rapists.

I think comments and actions like those go beyond just not condemning racist groups. That's what I don't get about people who defend Trump on this issue. Its not like he's left any room for doubt. Racist words have come out of his mouth multiple times.

Its funny that you accuse the left wing media of shouting down people who disagree with when Trump tries to censor anyone who challenges him. He bans journalists who oppose his policies. He avoids talking about issues people who challenge him or about issues that might paint him in a bad light.

And this has exactly what to do with your country, or daily life...? 😅

 

[OliAnn]

And this has exactly what to do with your country, or daily life...? 😅

As the president of the USA, his comments are not merely offhand remarks, they shape policies and responses from different governments and sectors of the population within the USA and outside the USA. It’s dangerous to believe that what he says is innocuous for foreigners, we’ve seen how countries respond and escalate in the same type of rhetoric as a way to prove their own strength. So, yeah, those remarks affect everybody one way or another and at times those effects even escalate to commercial wars as we’ve seen with the Chinese, which in turn leads a redefinition of commercial strategies of companies across the world (and this is only one example on the top of my mind). Let’s just hope that we don’t see any of this escalate to real violence among countries. This all game theory at its best and that's how countries and companies work and how the individual becomes the pawn in the big picture.

 

[TriBel]

And this has exactly what to do with your country, or daily life...? 😅

🙄 We have a global economy. Trump's like the chaos butterfly - he tweets and everyone else suffers a tornado.

 

[Anyanka Bunny Slayer]

🙄 We have a global economy. Trump's like the chaos butterfly - he tweets and everyone else suffers a tornado.

As the president of the USA, his comments are not merely offhand remarks, they shape policies and responses from different governments and sectors of the population within the USA and outside the USA. It’s dangerous to believe that what he says is innocuous for foreigners, we’ve seen how countries respond and escalate in the same type of rhetoric as a way to prove their own strength. So, yeah, those remarks affect everybody one way or another and at times those effects even escalate to commercial wars as we’ve seen with the Chinese, which in turn leads a redefinition of commercial strategies of companies across the world (and this is only one example on the top of my mind). Let’s just hope that we don’t see any of this escalate to real violence among countries. This all game theory at its best and that's how countries and companies work and how the individual becomes the pawn in the big picture.

Actually, I wasn't addressing either of you; as you are both well aware. Were you requiring a little attention or something...?

 

[TriBel]

Actually, I wasn't addressing either of you; as you are both well aware. Were you requiring a little attention or something...?

No...I don't need attention but thanks for asking.

a) @Mr Trick 's country is the same as mine.
b) It's a discussion board. I felt entitled to discuss.
c) Trump's "Leader of the Free World". It would be misguided to think that what he says and does doesn't have global impact (TBH, I think he'd be disappointed if it didn't) even if it's trivial. These are some of the UK's less serious responses.
...page after page of his red Christmas Trees...
Christmas decorations at the White House – in pictures
...crowd-funded blimps...

The giant orange Trump baby blimp that the president says makes him 'feel unwelcome' is making an appearance for his state visit to the UK

When Trump heard about the 20-foot blimp in July 2018, he said: "When they make you feel unwelcome, why would I stay there?"

www.businessinsider.com

...Bo-Jo's comments about him projected onto Big Ben...

To bring it back to topic: here's a list of his anti-gay actions. I can imagine some of these being food for thought in other countries. All of Trump's anti-LGBT actions since last Pride (and a few welcome moves) alternatively - President Trump’s Anti-LGBT Agenda Is Louder Than His Pride Message

I don't have time to verify them...could be "fake news".

Finally, nothing to do with Trump but evidence that certain events do have repercussions elsewhere, here's Manchester's tribute to the massacre in Orlando. This I can vouch for because I was there.

Vigils for victims of Orlando attack held in North West

Vigils have been held in Manchester and Liverpool tonight for those killed in the mass shooting in Orlando, Florida. Rainbow flags in Manchester's Gay Village were lowered to half mast after 49 people were shot dead at the Pulse venue in the early hours of Sunday morning. There was a 'hand...

www.itv.com

 

[Anyanka Bunny Slayer]

No...I don't need attention but thanks for asking.

a) @Mr Trick 's country is the same as mine.
b) It's a discussion board. I felt entitled to discuss.
c) Trump's "Leader of the Free World". It would be misguided to think that what he says and does doesn't have global impact (TBH, I think he'd be disappointed if it didn't) even if it's trivial. These are some of the UK's less serious responses.
...page after page of his red Christmas Trees...
Christmas decorations at the White House – in pictures
...crowd-funded blimps...

The giant orange Trump baby blimp that the president says makes him 'feel unwelcome' is making an appearance for his state visit to the UK

When Trump heard about the 20-foot blimp in July 2018, he said: "When they make you feel unwelcome, why would I stay there?"

www.businessinsider.com

...Bo-Jo's comments about him projected onto Big Ben...

To bring it back to topic: here's a list of his anti-gay actions. I can imagine some of these being food for thought in other countries. All of Trump's anti-LGBT actions since last Pride (and a few welcome moves) alternatively - President Trump’s Anti-LGBT Agenda Is Louder Than His Pride Message

I don't have time to verify them...could be "fake news".

Finally, nothing to do with Trump but evidence that certain events do have repercussions elsewhere, here's Manchester's tribute to the massacre in Orlando. This I can vouch for because I was there.

An endless, pointless collection of various words that you randomly grouped together means absolutely nothing. Tell me, did you simply open a dictionary and just point at words that looked interesting? That's simply fascinating, darling. Bravo! Well done.

 

[TriBel]

An endless, pointless collection of various words that you randomly grouped together means absolutely nothing. Tell me, did you open a dictionary and just point at words that looked interesting? That's simply fascinating, darling. Bravo! Well done.

Sigh...if you say so. I've got far more important things to do than argue about civil rights and liberties.

 

[r2dh2]

Unfortunately, discussing politics is almost as difficult and passionate as discussing Bangel vs Spuffy (although, Trump arguably is definitely no Angel, no pun intended, and no Spike, no pun intended either)... a little joke just to lighten the mood 🙂