Official Discussion of 7.10 "Bring On The Night" (UPN-US)

OMG!!! I just watched it and I don't agree with most of you... I thought this episode was SOO good!! I was so tensed up by the end of the episode and I loved Buffy's power speech at the end... This season just keeps getting better and better!!!
-à…ngelus
 
AH-HA!

Very good episode.

I noticed people posting who saw it also forgot to mention when Buffy was crawling out of that hole.

Giles was suppose to be up there waiting for her, but as soon as she comes out...he's not there! Where did he go???

She gets pulled back down then pulls herself back up, and the ubervampire thing comes up behind her.

NOW, then we see a sihoulette figure, a form of a person, a shadow, run up, with the rising sun behind it.
The light from the sun causes the super-vampire to retreat and drop back into hole.

Several things about this:
1. It is never revealed who this shadowy figure is, at least not to the audience, we assume it is Giles because Buffy returns home with him. But back at the X-Mas tree lot, in that particular scene, the shadowy figure never comes over to help her.
2. The shadowy figure, to me at first, didn't make me think this was Giles, but someone else. ALSO, the figure moved kinda weird, as if the shadowy form was animated or done with some special FX. If this was Giles, then why not show Giles?
3. Was the shadowy form trying to BLOCK THE SUN for the super-vampire???
4. Buffy staked the super-vampire...but it did not die. Therefore, we can assume regular anti-vampire stuff won't work on it. If the shadowy form was The First Evil, maybe it ran up to scare, or ward the super-vampire back down into the hole, as to, say, "not blow it's cover". Because if it cannot be killed via stake, then surely, you'd think it would be immune to sunlight (then again, why is it in a cave?). Maybe it can go in the sunlight but the first evil or whatever doesn't want anyone to know that.

5. After Buffy goes into the hole, Giles looks up. He looks up and there is wire with X-MAS lights on it. I thought maybe he was looking at this to maybe use as a rope for her, or himself, in case she got into trouble. BUT, obviously, this didn't happen, so what was he looking up at, cuz the camera angle us up and pointing down on him with the wire with the X-MAS lights clearing in front of the camera too, which seems kinda of unnecessary.

OTHER THINGS:

1. Principle Wood says things to Buffy at the desk that allude to him maybe being a good-guy after all. Maybe a "Guardian"-type of person. Then again, maybe he is actually evil and the not being able to forget about the evil (which we assume he saw and traumatized him) led to him converting over to evil.
Joyce seems to be telling Buffy that evil cannot be stopped, not even by...but then she gets cut off (maybe not by Clem? DOH! HAHAHAH!), God??? Or cannot even be stopped by...her, that is, Buffy? IF YOU REMEMBER an Angel episode, last season, Angel goes to Wolfram&Hart to contact the Senior Partners, and the elevator he does into seems to go through some hell-dimension place, but ends up...back on Earth in some park or whatever. And the guide there with him, dead-bad-guy, tells him that the Senior Partners aren't battling for evil to rule all, but to keep a balance cuz evil is everywhere...or something to that effect, kinda similar theme the Joyce character was saying, I think.
IN ANY CASE, Giles seemed to be telling Buffy...not much, and kinda indicating he didn't have answers and they were screwed. He seemed pessimistic, saying there was "internal bleeding" and wasn't sure if she could fight again and stuff, and she was overhearing this.
Maybe she realized Giles could be the First Evil and decided to make that speech, part of some secretly planned ruse.
Also, on the part where she mentioned she'd personally rip the first evil's heart out, the camera switches to Giles before switching back to her.
I think Joyce could be the real Joyce.
She kept telling Buffy things, like she needed to rest and all that.
If you remember an earlier episode, Spike was asking Buffy when they could rest and all of that.
And we all know this will probably be the last season of the show anyways, and that Faith seems to be getting set up to take over "slaying".
Maybe Buffy is getting "burned out", losing her touch, or her power, and that's going into Faith.

OR, maybe the only way she could defeat the first evil is if somehow her power is given up and joined with Faith. Maybe an "Uberslayer" for the "Ubervampire".

2. Principal Wood's full name is Principal Robin Wood. If I recall, Robin Wood is the name of some real-life Wiccan. ( www.robinwood.com ). Maybe his character is suppose to be some kind of wiccan/WARLOCK-guardian-type.
I mean, we've seen lots of witches in the show so far, WHAT ABOUT THE WARLOCKS?!?!??! Maybe he's a warlock or whatever.

3.OH, I forgot to mention, Giles, when he is talking about the 1st evil, says he could only take the form of those who've died. So, maybe Giles is dead. Or in a coma on life-support, between death and life and maybe at the end, Willow go visits him and heals him. Who knows. DOH!

4. The First Evil can touch stuff. When in the form of that one dead blonde chick who was talking to Willow, she, or it, was able to sit down in the chair at the table. We see Giles sitting or leaning against things in this episode.

5. Also, about the Ubervampire actually being immune to sunlight---when he killed Annabelle, he was obviously immune to her cross. So immune to stakes-in-heart, and crosses.

6. Continuity problems or something else going on(?): Giles says the super-vampire was rare and ancient and likely summoned by the First Evil. We assume there is only one, yet, there are likely MORE, I would think. Because we see Druisilla, we actually see morphing into her form, with the ubervampire. YET, we see the, or AN ubervampire fighting and later chasing after Buffy. In between scenes of Druisilla and the ubervampire there beating on Spike (yes, I noticed the water-drowning thing being a bit odd of a way to toture a vampire). ALSO, if Giles if the First Evil, how could be also be Principle Wood and Druisilla all at the same time? HMMMM.


LASTLY, why didn't the supervampire kill Buffy? How did the gang know where to find her? Know where to find her buried under a pile of debris as well?

If Giles is evil, why bother bringing the SITs all to Sunnydale (he said more were on the way, remember?) instead of just killing them?

Here's likely why:
1. If you kill one slayer, the slayer power could go into any one of the candidates. If they are all over the world, it would be kinda hard to then search the world looking for the new slayer, killing her, only to have the power jump into another slayer...on the other side of the globe or something. SO, maybe they want all the slayers-in-training in the same at the same time, so they can kill them all together at once. IF they killed Buffy now, the power would have likely jumped to some other candidate, SO, it would be in the 1st Evil's interest to keep her alive for now, until all the candidates were found.
2. Buffy is not killed, but left totally banged up. If they keep the slayer banged up and weak and injured, then she would be easier to kill in a front-on, massive-attack. And then go back to what I said, of the 1st Evil, not needing or willing to kill Buffy just yet.
3. What the heck was Willow trying to do when that spell backfired on them? I don't recall them ever explaining what the heck that was or what exactly they were trying to do. "It will only make me stronger."-it said through her. WELL, WHAT would only make it stronger? What was she attempting to do?

4. Principle Wood has seemed eager to keep Buffy close and all. To
watch her? I think that's obvious now. But for good or evil purpose?
5. Wood ran into Buffy in the basement, both had shovels. They seemed to be coming from opposite directions. Buffy and Dawn were leaving from having buried the evil seal back up. NOW, if he had dug it up already, why was he travelling to it with a shovel? (I missed the previous episode, was Jonathan's body still on it? Did Wood movie it or what? Whatever?). Maybe he was going to cover it up but they got to it before him. Also, is it me, or is there some kind of low-key attraction between Buffy and the principle?

6. How the heck is Faith going to get outta jail to fight in any of these battles or save-the-day stuff???


OH, and back to the Buffy speech and ruse-possibility thing:
Joyce was going to tell Buffy that evil was part of nature and that no one could stop it, not even...and I kinda think now, she was going to say that not even her, Buffy, could stop it.
NOW, if the 1st Evil's tactics are to mislead people, then maybe it actually wants Buffy to believe...SHE CAN WIN, but she actually can't, so that would lead to her right into a trap if she thought she could win.
BUFFY could have figured this out, and decided to play into this, pretending she believed they could all win, and maybe force the 1st Evil's hand, making it over-confident and all, and ready, her ready as well, for its next move.

THEN AGAIN (hahahah!), Anya commented on the name of it, "The First Evil", as kinda dismissed it, in that alot of things call itselves stuff like that.
CUZ, they don't truly know this is "the ultimate evil", they only know this from what IT, the "1st evil" is telling them, declaring this to them.

Remember the Buffy-on-the-computer scene, it seemed to imply they had no success on coming up with information, background, etc. on it. So who knows if this truly is "the first evil" if the only thing telling them this is "the first evil"? It sounds like this is just implied.
And Joyce was not telling Buffy she could not defeat the "first evil", but just "all evil" in general.
The only other info seemed to come from Giles, who is suspect, and stuff from Spike, who seemingly is able to be tortured with water/drowning????????????????

In short: wE DON'T QUITE KNOW WHAT'S GOIN' ON!
 
The First Evil can touch stuff. When in the form of that one dead blonde chick who was talking to Willow, she, or it, was able to sit down in the chair at the table. We see Giles sitting or leaning against things in this episode.

I think that sitting and leaning is different than touching someone or handling/moving something. It's conceivable to me, at least, that the FE could appear to sit or lean on something, with a bit of practice. After all, it obviously has no problem "standing" on the floor either.
 
New poster with some posty post toasties.

Well, I have a few comments (first time poster, sorry)

1) The First said it was through being subtle. Waltzing into the heart of Scooby Central "dressed up" as Giles is certainly unsubtle.

2) The thing about it being more convenient to have all of the SITs in one place is certainly true, though it could be as much for psychological effect as anything. The First is not necessarily all about efficiency so much as being just plain MEAN.

3) Unless the Drusilla manifestation temporarily vanished when the First channeled through Willow, then we know for a fact that it can manifest in more than one place at a time. Furthermore, why WOULDN'T it be able to?

4) I agree with (someone) who mentioned that the First certainly appears to lean or sit, even as it appears to stand (on the floor). But it touches nothing, and handles nothing. Like Giles.

5) As for "Ripper," as far as metashow concerns go, it looks like that show wasn't coming off anyway, so it is certainly possible that he IS dead. Of course, there is a great deal of time unaccounted for in Giles' history, and the name of the show immediately suggests that it may have taken place BEFORE he met Buffy... incidentally freeing the show from the problems of referencing B:tVS. So maybe he's dead AND he's got his own show.

6) Point. Whedon seems to be "cleaning house," and wrapping up plot threads left and right. If this is indeed the last season, we may see Buffy die, along with all the other SITs and Faith, and the mantle to pass to... Dawn??? Why, you ask? Remember, there is enough "sameness" between them that Buffy was able to close the Gate at the end of season 5 even though it should have taken Dawn to do it. Ten to one that Dawn becomes the new Slayer if Buffy sucks dirt again, this time permanently.

7) Besides, it would play into rumors that there will be a Dawn spin off series, something that was hinted at with the establishment of a Scooby like gang for Dawn early in the season. However, this raises the question of how far Whedon will go to make his plots unpredictable. Was the appearance of Dawn's "supporting cast" a meta-show ruse to make us think Dawn is the next logical Slayer? Are the very RUMORS of a Dawn the Vampire Slayer franchise there to throw us off as well? Does this add some confusion as to whether there really ever WAS any trouble with the Ripper show? You bet.

8) I was TROUBLED by Buffy's speech. It was NOT GOOD. Bold, sure. But bad... look at this speech. Find one POSITIVE thing about it. She had a real opportunity at the end, "There's only one thing stronger than evil..." Did she say "love?" "Good?" "Hope?" "Determination?" "The will to fight back," even? No. None of those things. She said, "us." That is not a safe and happy sentiment, and - if Giles is the First Evil - perhaps exactly what he was playing toward. Note that he said a great deal of things that were exactly the last things Buffy felt she needed to hear... but I won't go there at the moment.

9) I can't tell you how excited I am about Lesbo Slayer. Sorry.

10) Joss's promise that this season would be lighter and less dark than last season is *&&^&^&^@&#^$*&^@#^$#@^@&^&^#&^^@&^$&^#@, so far. Not that I am unhappy with the quality, quite the contrary. It's an extremely well conceived and well executed vehicle of despair and soul tortouring angst.

Well, that's it for me.

LWSchurtz
 
5) As for "Ripper," as far as metashow concerns go, it looks like that show wasn't coming off anyway, so it is certainly possible that he IS dead. Of course, there is a great deal of time unaccounted for in Giles' history, and the name of the show immediately suggests that it may have taken place BEFORE he met Buffy... incidentally freeing the show from the problems of referencing B:tVS. So maybe he's dead AND he's got his own show.

"Ripper" is 99% sure, starting next fall on the BBC, handling about Giles, it will be in the same timeframe, because it has guest appearances of Alyson Hannigan! There was some trouble and that's why Joss decided to do Firefly first, but things are now settled with the BBC and if Joss wants, it can be up and running next season. Since Firefly is cancelled he now has enough time to do it!

6) Point. Whedon seems to be "cleaning house," and wrapping up plot threads left and right. If this is indeed the last season, we may see Buffy die, along with all the other SITs and Faith, and the mantle to pass to... Dawn Why, you ask? Remember, there is enough "sameness" between them that Buffy was able to close the Gate at the end of season 5 even though it should have taken Dawn to do it. Ten to one that Dawn becomes the new Slayer if Buffy sucks dirt again, this time permanently.

If Buffy dies, there will not be a new slayer, only if Faith dies, and I have some clues that Dawn will not be the runner-up!
 
i agree... i don't think dawn will be the runner up... i can't wait for Faith to come back tho... this season has just been so great... I can't understand why the ratings are down...

-à…ngelus
 
I thought the episode was good. The best episode this season.
I really like Buffy's speech in the end. And it was really great to see Drusilla again, even though it was the First Evil in the diguise.
 
First, I really like this season.

But I want to say that, even though I liked a lot of this episode, I thought the pacing was off -- it just didn't move forward the right way.

Oh -- and something no one's commented on. In Buffy's speech at the end she talks about each of them overcoming their worst fears as a way to get ready to fight The First. That could be interesting.
 
Originally posted by wylodmayer
Well, I have a few comments (first time poster, sorry)

Don't be sorry - it was a great first post!

Okay, ahem, my comments. There were just too many things I wanted to quote so I am not even going to try.

I thought this was a pretty good episode. Anya was pretty funny, and the SITs' banter kind of reminded me of early Scoobie banter.

I still think Wood is a good guy - and maybe he's not sure whether Buffy is or not.

Buffy's speech: Anyone else get the vision of 'The Wish' all-business-no-fun Buffy there?

Okay, I broke down and started quoting. But just a little.

Originally posted by The BortiiS
OR, maybe the only way she could defeat the first evil is if somehow her power is given up and joined with Faith. Maybe an "Uberslayer" for the "Ubervampire".

2. Principal Wood's full name is Principal Robin Wood. If I recall, Robin Wood is the name of some real-life Wiccan. ( www.robinwood.com ). Maybe his character is suppose to be some kind of wiccan/WARLOCK-guardian-type.
I mean, we've seen lots of witches in the show so far, WHAT ABOUT THE WARLOCKS?!?!??! Maybe he's a warlock or whatever.

What if Buffy channels the First Slayer to battle the First Evil?

And I just have to say...Principal Wood...definitely a very powerful Manwitch.
 
I think that Principal Wood is a good guy. He hired Buffy to help the kids because she's younger and more able to relate to them. He is also keeping her close. Perhaps he is really a watcher. He could also be a warlock. Who says that a watcher has to be some stuffy British man without any active powers? I'd like to see a watcher be more involved in the battles. Wood did mention to Buffy in "Lessons" that he knows more about Buffy than he let on. Would a bad guy really admit that to her?

Some of the discontinuity that was mentioned was actually covered. It was said that Willow was going to perform a Locator Spell to locate the First. Since the First popped out of Willow, that kind of attests to the idea that the First is found in everyone like Joyce had said. Prinicpal Wood was walking back to basement with the shovel in hand because he buried Jonathan's body a couple of eps back. When he was in the seal room, he probably grabbed the shovel there and was going to put it back, perhaps after burying the seal.

It was said that in an upcoming ep, Dawn would be named as a slayer candidate.

I think that she is the key to defeating the First and the Turok-Han. She's been getting tougher and stronger throughout this season. She also had that talk with Joyce during "Conversations with Dead People." Last season, she learned what it felt like to kill someone she loved, or really liked when she had to stake that boy she was out with. Then there is that part during "Bring On The Night," where Joyce talks to Buffy in the bathroom. She talks about how Buffy has no power over the sun and how it rises and sets. Then when Buffy climbs out of the cave, we see a figure running up, blocking out the sun rising. We know that another word for sunrise is dawn.
 
Okay...

1) Giles is alive--he is leaning against stuff, taking off glasses. Also, he got the books from the Council before they blew up, so logically he had to grab them with his hands. Secondly, why not just wipe everyone out when he shows up? Bring someone along...like the Uber-Vampire...

Buffy: Giles, you're here!
Giles: Of course...I am. Oh and look...instead of us playing out this long drawn out elaborate plot, I brought my friend the Uber-Vampire...Go Girl...kill everyone in sight!!

Also, "Ripper" is A-Go! so....

2). Giles thought that Uber-Vampires were a myth...so how did he know how to kill them? They must have assumed a vampire is a vampire.

3). Dawn---I'll quote Spike--"when did your sister get so scary?" She's probably more dangerous than Buffy is...And she seems to enjoy it--much like Faith. And we know what happened there...

4). SITs--please let's not kill them all--it's like the Playboy Mansion in that place...Can't wait until Faith arrives...

5). SITs---great I love they way they all get along...too bad about Annabell...she was my favorite...oh well...

6). Yeah, what's up with dunking Spike in the water? Hello...they don't need air.

7). Spike's right--Dru is a little bit more crazy...this one actually made sense. Miss the ole Dru...

8). Anya---it's glad to see the old Anya back--still riling Giles to the tee...I wonder whom they blame for destroying the shop? Will Willow have to pay punitive damages?

9). Anya with glasses---Sweet...Can she get anymore better?

10). Willow and Kennedy--Can we have just a little bit more of the foreplay please?? And that accent...

11). Also Robin Wood and the real Robin Wood...with so many similiarities, we are talking law-suit here. Besides, I think that he is Dawn's Watcher...I don't think that they were all killed.
 
First off, I really liked this episode. Maybe that's because they mentioned Faith. Up until this point, it really seemed like they were completely ignoring that she is still alive. Plus, Juliet Landau is always great. And Anya's comment to Giles about the Council being blown up ::rolf::.

I don't think Giles is dead because Ripper is almost guarenteed. But the evidence that he is the First Evil is really convincing. Joss is just screwing with us.
 
OK. New here. Here's a way out thought that i dotn htink anybody's mentioned. Season 5 when Buffy found that glowy orb thing and she met the crazy guy who said "They'll come at u through your family. " At first it was thought that it was meant to be Glory but Glory didnt come at Buffy through anyone. Link that with the ep. Family where the gang makes Tara part of their "family" Now you have the first evil talking to Willow by pretending to be Tara. Giles may be the first evil. As may Joyce. Just a thought.
 
Giles "says" he got the books out of the council building, but can we trust and believe that? HE wasn't carrying them, they were in one of the girls' bookbags!

And of course he can touch his own glasses... he wears them all tbe time. The question is, can OTHER people touch his glasses, or would they go right thread him.
 
Originally posted by gman992
Okay...

1) Giles is alive--he is leaning against stuff, taking off glasses. Also, he got the books from the Council before they blew up, so logically he had to grab them with his hands. Secondly, why not just wipe everyone out when he shows up? Bring someone along...like the Uber-Vampire...

Buffy: Giles, you're here!
Giles: Of course...I am. Oh and look...instead of us playing out this long drawn out elaborate plot, I brought my friend the Uber-Vampire...Go Girl...kill everyone in sight!!

Also, "Ripper" is A-Go! so....

2). Giles thought that Uber-Vampires were a myth...so how did he know how to kill them? They must have assumed a vampire is a vampire.

3). Dawn---I'll quote Spike--"when did your sister get so scary?" She's probably more dangerous than Buffy is...And she seems to enjoy it--much like Faith. And we know what happened there...

4). SITs--please let's not kill them all--it's like the Playboy Mansion in that place...Can't wait until Faith arrives...

5). SITs---great I love they way they all get along...too bad about Annabell...she was my favorite...oh well...

6). Yeah, what's up with dunking Spike in the water? Hello...they don't need air.

7). Spike's right--Dru is a little bit more crazy...this one actually made sense. Miss the ole Dru...

8). Anya---it's glad to see the old Anya back--still riling Giles to the tee...I wonder whom they blame for destroying the shop? Will Willow have to pay punitive damages?

9). Anya with glasses---Sweet...Can she get anymore better?

10). Willow and Kennedy--Can we have just a little bit more of the foreplay please?? And that accent...

11). Also Robin Wood and the real Robin Wood...with so many similiarities, we are talking law-suit here. Besides, I think that he is Dawn's Watcher...I don't think that they were all killed.

1) He's using his illusionary objects that were with him from the beginning, and leaning against tables can be done by The First Evil as well as done when it was in the form of Cassie in 7x07: Conversation with dead people. And for the Ripper part? Well umh, whoever said Buffy was all about logics? Why does he have to be alive to be in Ripper? 😀 And who said he got the books? He never placed them on the table, one of the SITs did!

2) The First Evil said it was a myth 😛

3) Whats that got to do with it?

4) Without spoiling I theorise one of them to be an Agent of The FE!

5) Annabelle was naive

6) To annoy him and probably shut him up 😀

7) Me too 🙁 Miss little miss-psycho.

8) They will bring out Evil Willy and sue her! After all, its America.

9) Dunno?

10) Kennedy is using an ancient tactics of flirting with someone to seduce them and get close to them in order to strike when they least expect it 😛 No not spoiler, my little speculation in mind.

11) Good thought! But...
arent we getting a little SPOILERISH HERE?
 
Anybody have any guesses as to how old the SITs are? To me they didnt look any older than Dawn.

Any theories on the water torture? I dont see how it could be effective.

And PLEASE don't like Giles be dead. Though I really got worried when they didnt explain how he survived the axe (kind of implying that he didnt) and then when buffy was being pulled back into the underground cave by Ooby.. he didn't give her a hand.

Going to take my last exam. Yikes

-Helga
 
I think Molly is the same age as Dawn - around the age 17. Kennedy obviously has to be older because I doubt they'd hook Willow up with somebody who is too much younger than herself. So, I'm guessing Kennedy is 20 or older.
 
What were the clues that Kennedy is a lesbian other than the fact that she said to Willow "Don't hog the sheets."?

--mmmdonuts
 
If that's the route they are taking the I HOPE that Kennedy is older than Dawn! Don't want the censors thinking we're nothing but depraved. haha.. 😉

mmmdonuts- that was the only clue I got too. talk about being forthright. I loved the look willow gave just after that.... more than a little shocked. did they all get a memo on Willow or someting?

Cheers!

-Helga
 
Back
Top Bottom