Season 7- Did they fire the Continuity Guy or what?

Fat Elvis 007 said:
For me...yes. I was extremely annoyed by all of this, and it really lessened my enjoyment of the show as a whole.

I had come to expect consistent characters and plots from this show, and S7 didn't deliver.


Well, Season 7 delivered for me. More than the over-ballyhooed Season 2.

The magic jacket? Has anyone considered that Buffy had given it to Spike, while he was in the school basement?

The ubervamp lesson? Buffy was showing that no one was invisible. The change in the Slayer line, also changed the balance of good & evil and it affected the ubervamps. They weren't that destructable, since they still managed to inflict a lot of damage on the SITs-turned-Slayers.

The character portrayals were consistent, as far as I was concerned. I don't know what the hell everyone was expecting. A lighter season? For Buffy to end up with Angel or Spike? For Buffy to be perfect or remain as she had been in the past? For her and the Scoobies to remain close? That certainly wasn't going to happen. Season 4 had forshadowed their eventual estrangement.

My only real problem with S7 was the Bejorxa's Eye. The writers never really got into what it was trying to say to Anya and Giles. And Anya's explanation that Buffy's resurrection had upset the balance did not do it for me. Nor do I believe that ME had intended for her to be right.


As for Willow and Amy - don't forget that Willow had turned her back on Amy in S6's "Doublemeat Palace". I'm sure that Amy didn't forget that.
 
P
ProphecyGirl
I agree. Season 2 was decent not Great.
"Well, Season 7 delivered for me. More than the over-ballyhooed Season 2."

Well, continuity was alw- Wait, what?!?!

I think there's a fundamental difference of opinion here. For me, Season 2 of Buffy represents the absolute pinnacle of what television can do. Season 7 was still better than all other tv, but I wouldn't consider the two even comparable.
 
C
Cookie Dough
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Continuity errors are when something happens that directly contradicts something that we have been told. Things like all the vampires in the basement rising days and possibly even weeks after Spike killed them, or Anya telling Spike that Giles was the first are of the continuity error variety.

The initiative not being filled in with concrete and the like are not continuity errors. At best, they are gaps in the storyline. It would have been different if the guy talking about the initiative said "the initiative has been filled in with concrete" instead of saying that "the initiative is to be filled in with concrete". Since we didn't see the rest of the meeting, I'm thinking that most likely someone afterwards said to him "dude, do you realize how long it would take to fill in the initiative with concrete? And the money? Plus the fact that we would have to open up the initiative to pour in the concrete, and in turn let out all the creepy crawlies....why don't we just lock the doors?". The writers never said that the initiative had been filled in. Just that they were planning on filling it in. As with real life, plans change.

Anything that can be easily explained doesn't really fall into the realm of continuity error. I hate shows that assume that the audience is comprised of idiots with no imagination. People don't need to be shown every little tedious detail. To do so effects the timing of the show, and just takes up time, when it really isn't needed.

As for character changes. They are definitely not of the continuity error variety. Characters have so many layers, and change over time. That's one of the things that I love about Buffy. It's never static. It's always progressing. Buffy at the end of season 7 isn't the same person as she was even at the end of season 6. This can be said after every season, and about every character.

People change, and show us their different layers here and there. I think the kicking Buffy out of the house thing is perfect example. I think that the gang has grown up. In the early seasons of Buffy, no way...they wouldn't have kicked her out. But they have grown as characters as well, and can identify with the fact that the Path that Buffy is leading them down is the wrong way to go. They recognize that sometimes people make mistakes, and that Buffy was being too reckless.

Buffy's being reckless is also a good example. She has only had to take care of the small group of scoobies before. All the time, people are telling her "you are the chosen one, lives depend on you...". Always telling her that she is a leader, she is supposed to make the choices, and she has reluctantly done so at times, and done so with great confidence as well at other times. Here now, she has been given a house full of people under direct threat. She also has to figure out how do defeat a seemingly unsurmountable foe(like she does every time), and has to do so while all of these teenaged girls complain in their very teenaged ways.

Giles going after Spike(or sanctioning his death)totally fits with his character. Let us not forget the end of season 5 when he killed Ben. He realizes better than anyone that sacrifices have to be made sometimes. I hate to bring crappy assed star trek into this, but Kobiyashi Maru. The good of the many, outweigh the good of the few or the one.

Most of the quibbles that people are bringing up fall into the nit-picking category. It's all about the suspension of disbelief. None of the things brought up are of the earth shattering variety or take me out of the show. That's not to say that I wouldn't have handled things differently, or that maybe they could have filled in some of the blanks a little bit better than they did, but overall I think they did a good job.

If you want a continuity error. How about the last Star Trek movie. Ok...the ship can fire when it's cloaked...I can forgive that because it did happen before in star trek 6, but all throughout star trek they have said that sheilds aren't...in fact they can not be up when a ship is cloaked. That if a ship took a direct hit when it was cloaked, that it would be obliterated. Here, they must have hit this ship like 30 times, but it had no dammage. Also the fact that they didn't even mention that it could do these things, and didn't really seem to care. That is a perfect example of a major continuity error.
 
I actually agree with you Mr. Gordo, and Digfic writer too for that matter.

Ordinarily when you're talking about continuity in respect to the continuity guy you're talking about hard, black and white facts like Buffy is wearing high heels in the house, but she's wearing sneakers when she walks out the door, and yes Season 7 has those too.

123. Lessons


When Buffy tries to stop the spirit from killing Dawn, Dawn says "thanks sis", but when they get out of the basement Carlos says she's the coolest mom.

When Buffy arrives to Dawn in the basement she is wearing heels. When she is fighting the ghosts she has brown trainers on.

125. Same Time, Same Place


Buffy and Dawn's shirts were torn by Gnarl. Later in the episode they have no holes in their shirts.

Dawn is supposed to be paralyzed, but if you notice while she's lying down on the couch with Xander at her side, her head keeps changing positions between the differing camera angles.

126. Help


In the scene where Buffy talks to the Principal after meeting Cassie, either her shirts neckline or her necklace changes length and then changes back while she's talking.
When Cassie falls down, her head is upright, looking up at the ceiling, in the next scene her head is towards Buffy and then up again towards the ceiling.
When talking to Cassie in the library, Dawn's hair is straight. When she gets home and talks to Buffy, Xander and Willlow at the house, she has sections that have been curled.

But it's like you say these kinds of things aren't really a problem until they become so obvious, they make it difficult to suspend disbelief. If you choose to make such things a problem in spite of that, you're just nit-picking, as you say.

On the other hand there's a point where we disagree. I believe storyline continuity, and character continuity does exist. I could Google the terms for you, if you like. In fact I had nothing better to do, so I did. Here's one I thought was interesting:

... Research and caring about continuity to the extent that the character meets the
readers' expectations is the very least we need from creators

(actually that quote is taken out of context, but there is other stuff in the article about actual continuity of character, and it sounded so good the way I clipped it, I had to use it)

At what point do you call a storyline or character continuity problem an error though? It's subjective. Consider this one,

In the early seasons it was established that Willow was a major computer nerd. She tracked down Billy in "Lie to Me" without the use of fancy search engines and in "Ted" she was giddy over new computer upgrades. It seems odd that now the only thing she seems capable of using is Google. Which, unless you have a website that's your name, doesn't seem like it could provide a lot of personal information.

Is that an error? Not really. Apparently it does bother at least one person though. So if it bothers that person it's an error to him. I'm pretty sure when this thread was posted that's what the poster had in mind; problems in storyline or character continuity that bother you.

And yes stuff like this can bother you to the point it makes it difficult to suspend disbelief.

Personally I'm one of those who doesn't enjoy episodes like Him or Empty Spaces, because very little about them makes sense to me in respect to what I believe I know in respect to the characters, the Season 7 storyline, or Series Canon. For me there are flaws in either character, storyline, or series continuity. Someone else might watch those episodes and have no probems with the stuff that bothers me. For him there are no problems. Nevertheless for me there are, and I think that's all the poster of this thread was saying - "Stuff like that bothers me. Does it bother you?"
 
I agree with you N4H. The Willow loosing her computer ability is odd. But I am not sure that Willow's references to google meant that she searched on google. It is hard for people to really take what is said in shows at face value. Especially from the Willow, Xander, and Buffy dialogue.

Joss is well known for taking nouns and turning them into verbs. In the several google references that Willow made, I actually think that it was another Joss attempt at taking pop culture and turning it into every day talk. I haven't seen s7 for awhile but from what I can remember Willow said something to the effect of "I've googled all that I can google". Something like that at least.

I personally don't use google because it's a pretty sub-standard search engine, but I use google as a verb much like I think it was the writers intention here. When people ask me to find some info on something, I'll usually say something to the effect of "I'll go google it". Two reasons. Everyone knows what google is and therefore knows it means that I am going to search for it on the internet, and two...well...it sounds weird, and silly and stoopie...like me.
 
And that's why that particular example doesn't bother me either, but it does bother some people. The existence of the Initiative doesn't bother me either, but it does bother a lot of people. When Killer in Me came out, it was all over the message boards. Drew Goddard used to tease Drew Z GreenBerg about it online.

So what's wrong with asking people if it bothers them too?

Edit: Gosh I just reread that and it sounds nasty. I don't mean to be. What I'm really saying is I agree with everything you say, until my readers ears think they hear you saying we're not allowed to talk about it, and character or storyline continuity doesn't exist.
 
Oh god no, I'm not saying that people can't have their own opinion. I'm sorry if it came off like that. I love hearing other peoples opinions about the shows that I love. Especially if they are different than mine. But that's what a discussion board is all about. If everyone agreed with each other it would be rather bland and I wouldn't come here. I know everyone has their own opinion, and all I am doing is stating my own opinion.

I hope no-one took offense to the term "nit-picking". I used to be a big star trek fan. I loved st:tng. There was this book that came out late in the series called "The Nit-pickers Guide to STTNG". It was a book that had pretty much every episode in it, and it had a lot of continuity errors in it. It was a fun little book, and I loved watching an ep with it by my side. You would be like...oh...yep...there's the boom in the shot, and things like that. Of course the best one was probably one of the biggest continuity error in all of television history.

There was this episode where Data had his twin, Lore on the ship. One of the ways that you could tell the difference between Data and Lore was that Lore could use contractions(as in can't, and It's). They kept hammering that into the viewers heads the whole episode. Well Lore turned out to be evil...la-dee-da, and a big battle ensued. At the end of the battle, Data threw Lore into a transporter, and beamed him out into space. At the end of the show, Wesley is supposed to say "Data?", and Data is supposed to say "It is me", but instead he said "It's me". This was actually a joke between Patrick Stewart(Picard), and Brent Spiner(Data). They were wondering if any of the crew was actually paying attention. The crew didn't notice it when they filmed it. They didn't notice it in post-production. There must have been at least 20 - 30 sets of eyes that watched the show before it was put out to broadcast, and no-one caught it. In essence, this error said....Nope...Data is dead....he was beamed out into space. That one kills me every time.
 
They're incredibly reliable - I've yet to come across anything there that wasn't 100%. A real labour of love, and they have Jill's Seal of Approval.

But... RBTVS is mostly little glitches. The little continuity flaws don't bug me (I find them rather cute, actually)... rather it's the bigger Arc wide ones, because it suggests that the writers can't be bothered making sure that the script makes sense according to the already established rules...
 
Slayer said:
Willow - Finally we saw sweet little Willow again! Not Evil Willow, the type who uses magic to do any and everything. But her fear of magic? Ah, I don't think so.

Being new here, I have to ask what you mean by this?

Willow's fear of magic in season seven is completly understandable. The last time she messed with serious magics, she nearly killed her mentor (Giles) and all her friends and nearly destroyed the world. That would make anybody wary. And then, she has the incident in 7.03 "Same Time, Same Place" where her subconscious casts the spell that makes her invisible to the others and vise versa.

The crowning moment is the botched locator spell in 7.10 "Bring on the Night", when the First takes over Willow, turning her hair black and making her attack Buffy until Xander saves the day. Willow absolutly terrified immediatly after this, begging Buffy not to let it use her to hurt people (Alyson Hannigan does a superb job of getting this across, but, of course, I'm biased :love10: ).

Early in the season, she doesn't think she has enough control to prevent turning to evil magic even through the use of benign magic, so her terror is quite in character.

As for Buffy... well, let's see... she's been told for the last six years that no one else but her can fight the demons and that she is the only one that can save the world (basically that she is better than anyone else). She finally believes it and starts to act like it and they call her on it? (and, yeah, I know they did it for dramatic purposes, but when you use logic in a fight, I'm bound to lose, so I ignore it 😛 )
 
I thought Season 7 was actually followed the show's distinct pattern. In fact, all Joss and the writers did was bring back elements from every season. They constantly either were saying quotes or showing images of things that had related to the past 6 years. Season 7 did have some sort of freshness because it showed evolution not necessarily continuity. Like the idea of every girl becoming the slayer or how the hellmouth had accumlated or revealed its' true inhabitants. Willow's passive behavior towards the magics were logical and understanble because of what her previous behavior had lead her to. She decided to take a safe approach. Buffy did always cut her self off because she did have to make the final descision, being the slayer. Eventually her isolation would have an impact on her character. However, having friends really helped her balance.
 
There's really only one continuity gaff made in regards to Willow and her reticence to do magic, and it occurs on ANGEL, not on BtVS. When Willow visits L.A. in the ANGEL S4 episode "Orpheus", she uses some seriously powerful magic without hesitation, which is inconsistent with the way she was being portrayed on BtVS at the time.
 
DigificWriter said:
There's really only one continuity gaff made in regards to Willow and her reticence to do magic, and it occurs on ANGEL, not on BtVS. When Willow visits L.A. in the ANGEL S4 episode "Orpheus", she uses some seriously powerful magic without hesitation, which is inconsistent with the way she was being portrayed on BtVS at the time.


I had problems with Willow's portrayal on ANGEL, as well. I get the feeling that the director was not familiar with what was happening with Willow's persona on BUFFY.
 
LadyLavinia said:
I had problems with Willow's portrayal on ANGEL, as well. I get the feeling that the director was not familiar with what was happening with Willow's persona on BUFFY.

It goes the same with Faith between shows. On Angel, I like her. On Buffy, she turns into this annoying wannabe-ghetto hoe.

Someone needs to get their stories straight...
 
Yeah I agree.. Not about Faith being an annoying wannabe-ghetto hoe on BtVS, heh, I liked her very much on both shows, but she is definitely different on Angel and on Buffy. I thought Willow was OK on Angel, but I really disliked Oz.. He was just quiet and annoying on Angel, while he is usually quite cool and doesn't talk too much. (Which is a huge difference in case it didn't sound like it the way I described it, hehe.) But then again, I never liked Angel on BtVS, but he is a great character on his own show..
 
Cordelia said:
It goes the same with Faith between shows. On Angel, I like her. On Buffy, she turns into this annoying wannabe-ghetto hoe.

Someone needs to get their stories straight...


Actually, Faith was pretty cool during her last episodes on BUFFY. Of course, you have to realize that the character is being viewed by two different lead characters. Naturally, Angel is going to view her as a decent person, in compare to Buffy. Yet, after "Empty Spaces", Buffy's opinion of Faith is much improved.
 
Fair point about perspective.

I far prefer Angel-Faith because she seems a bit more like S3 Faith than S7 Buffy-Faith does... Faith, so far as I could tell, was a rocker type. Not Avril Lavigne type rock either. Rob Zombie rock. Mosh pit riot rock. Rockers, you may have noticed, don't say yo. And they certainly don't say Madd Skillz. Now that I think of it, I guess S7 Buffy-Faith spoke a little too like Eliza Dushku. I mean, obviously, there's always been an uncanny resemblance between the two, but in S7 the line disappeared. When Faith started wearing ...er.. jumpers... I started to panic.
 
Actually Joss stated that the "Mad Skillz" line was taken straight from Eliza's mouth. In reality she was talking about her Dairy Queen, Ice Cream Scooping Skills, but Joss made it all dirty 🙂
 
Yeah, but the abundance of yos and dudes was what really did it. Mad Skillz I could just write off as some moment of in-jokey madness, but so... many... yos... if there were just a few more episodes, I've no doubt she'd have said Bling at some point. Actually, I'm currently playing Tony Hawk's Underground and the dialogue is disturbingly familiar...
 
Jill_Valentine said:
Fair point about perspective.

I far prefer Angel-Faith because she seems a bit more like S3 Faith than S7 Buffy-Faith does... Faith, so far as I could tell, was a rocker type. Not Avril Lavigne type rock either. Rob Zombie rock. Mosh pit riot rock. Rockers, you may have noticed, don't say yo. And they certainly don't say Madd Skillz. Now that I think of it, I guess S7 Buffy-Faith spoke a little too like Eliza Dushku. I mean, obviously, there's always been an uncanny resemblance between the two, but in S7 the line disappeared. When Faith started wearing ...er.. jumpers... I started to panic.

Frankly, I preferred the S7 Faith, because she was more developed. I would have been disappointed if Faith had remained as she had been, back in S3 . . . after four years. And as for Faith's dialogue - she has spent over three years in prison.
 
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