Smoking ban in prisons

[GwenRaiden]

What are your thoughts on the upcoming prison smoking ban? (England)

Are there already smoking bans within prisons where you are? Do you think it's an infringement on basic human rights? I've seen this discussed a lot recently, and people seem very much divided.

Will it cause more harm than good? Such as rioting? What about people who are incarcerated but are not guilty? Do they deserve to be punished and have their cigarettes banned along with other, guilty criminals?

I've seen some people so full of hatred towards prisoners that they say they shouldn't be allowed anything, and that they deserve capital punishment. Surely if your mantra is that you want prisons to suffer, then surely, continue to let them smoke? As smoking is, you know, bad for your health.

Anyway. Interested in what you think, so fire away (pun) (please also post smoking puns).

 

[Skanky Vamp]

Smoking has been banned here since I think the late 90's.. I'm surprised they still allow it there. It didn't really affect much. Numerous other countries prohibit it too. I don't see it being a big deal.

 

[thetopher]

Smoking is a comfort, not a human right so if it makes a prisoners life more uncomfortable then by all means take it away from them. But I dunno, maybe give it back to those prisoners who behave well, who try and better themselves inside- like a reward (if they want to smoke that is).

Given that we have the NHS then it would be counterproductive to let the prisoners try and smoke themselves to death unless we were willing to also deny them healthcare down the line if they need it, and nobody has suggested that.
Banning them from smoking keeps them healthier and stops them from being MORE of a burden on the state in the future.

 

[Skanky Vamp]

Smoking is a comfort, not a human right so if it makes a prisoners life more uncomfortable then by all means take it away from them. But I dunno, maybe give it back to those prisoners who behave well,

But protection from second hand smoke is also a civil right.. so if you are giving smokes as a 'reward' to well-behaved, it's also a punishment to those that don't. You are forcing someone to live with and in second hand smoke. And thats the cause for debate.

 

[Mr Trick]

Didn't even know it was allowed in prisons anyway. I guess banning it outright is a bit unfair, it should just be controlled. But I guess their moving with the times.

 

[The Bronze]

Smoking should be allowed outside in the yard and banned inside. Just like just pretty much everywhere else. Not sure why it's taken so long to get to this point.

 

[Blaze]

Smoking is certainly NOT a human right, it is a privilege (one that gives you cancer, but eh I don't judge). Now I 100% think prisoners should be dealt with with dignity (unless you're a child abuser, in which case I will personally send you to hell). Some things like reading, listening to music, exercising, I think all have a place in prison. But "rewards" like smoking and alcohol, those are privilege you should lose once you commit a crime.

If anyone has seen Wentworth this is actually kinda dealt with in the show.

 

[thetopher]

But protection from second hand smoke is also a civil right.. so if you are giving smokes as a 'reward' to well-behaved, it's also a punishment to those that don't. You are forcing someone to live with and in second hand smoke.

Right, second-hand smoke. Well simply put smokers in the same cells together when their first incarcerated, or maybe say that you're only allowed to smoke out in the yard at break time. Limit the privlidge but don't ban it out-right.
Then if the prisoner subsequently breaks the rules simply relieve them of their cigarettes. Problem solved.

 

[Skanky Vamp]

you're only allowed to smoke out in the yard at break time. Limit the privlidge but don't ban it out-right.

That's what they tried at first, and some places still operate that way. But criminals typically don't like following rules and those rascals smoked in their cells even when they knew they weren't supposed to.

The fact of the matter is, that even if they ban cigarettes in prison, people still have them and still smoke. But at least its not sponsored and 'supported'

I mean honestly, you cannot smoke in bars and restaurants, you cannot smoke in places of employment, you cannot smoke in rental cars or hotel rooms... why should prison be any different.

 

[thetopher]

I mean honestly, you cannot smoke in bars and restaurants, you cannot smoke in places of employment, you cannot smoke in rental cars or hotel rooms... why should prison be any different.

I'm actually more in favour of it in being banned in prisons than most public places. Prisons are places where certain freedoms are denied because you broke the rules.

On the outside they've banned smakoing in pubs and now pubs smell of stale beer and sweat. Yay.
They ban it outside whenever they can get away with it- some parks now, beer gardens, outside office spaces. It's getting a bit ridiculous. I understand needing to protect children from smoking (hence not being able to smoke in a car that has a child in it- at least that's the policy in the UK) but everywhere else people can, y'know, move away from the smokers to somewhere else. If it isn't a public building they should leave well enough alone.

 

[Mr Trick]

That's what they tried at first, and some places still operate that way. But criminals typically don't like following rules and those rascals smoked in their cells even when they knew they weren't supposed to.

The fact of the matter is, that even if they ban cigarettes in prison, people still have them and still smoke. But at least its not sponsored and 'supported'

I mean honestly, you cannot smoke in bars and restaurants, you cannot smoke in places of employment, you cannot smoke in rental cars or hotel rooms... why should prison be any different.

I agree mostly, the only thing I would say is that is that people who go to bars and restaurants are free people who will be able to smoke at other times, whereas if you're someone in prison then you could be in for a number of years and so might not be able to smoke for a very long time. I get that its all part of punishment, but I don't see too much halm in it myself.

 

[Blaze]

On the outside they've banned smakoing in pubs and now pubs smell of stale beer and sweat. Yay.
They ban it outside whenever they can get away with it- some parks now, beer gardens, outside office spaces. It's getting a bit ridiculous. I understand needing to protect children from smoking (hence not being able to smoke in a car that has a child in it- at least that's the policy in the UK) but everywhere else people can, y'know, move away from the smokers to somewhere else. If it isn't a public building they should leave well enough alone.

I don't think people should be allowed to smoke near office or building entrances, because those are places you cannot avoid as a non smoker, therefore you have no option to escape that second hand smoke. I have a friend that is allergic to cigarette smoke (I know, that's a really rare case), but she has a severe reaction if she's exposed to it. If people weren't so dam irresponsible it wouldn't be such a bad thing, but as it is they throw their cigarette buts anywhere and everywhere, even when there's an ash tray 2m away. Hence why I agree about getting bans in parks. I have no problem with people that smoke at home, or with designated smoking area (we have those at university), but based on the amount of cigs I see on the ground, people shouldn't be allowed to smoke wherever they want on the streets.

Again, if people were responsible about it I wouldn't really care, but too many people just aren't. And I must admit I'm kind of in the mindset that the smoker should be the one to move elsewhere to smoke, not the other way around where the non-smoking person has to leave in order to enjoy clean air.

 

[The Bronze]

I understand needing to protect children from smoking (hence not being able to smoke in a car that has a child in it- at least that's the policy in the UK) but everywhere else people can, y'know, move away from the smokers to somewhere else.

Did you go to many pubs before the ban? Moving away somewhere else doesn't really work as the place fills with smoke. As an asthmatic the smoking ban has been most welcome. My girlfriend who actually enjoys the occasional cigarette is also very glad of the ban. There's no harm done for people moving outside to smoke and then re-joining the smoke free environment inside. Not everyone wishes to have their lungs full of smoke and clothes smelling of it.

 

[thetopher]

I don't think people should be allowed to smoke near office or building entrances, because those are places you cannot avoid as a non smoker, therefore you have no option to escape that second hand smoke.

Basically I have no problem with smokers being 'outside' in the open air where cigarette smoke disperses quickly and doesn't affect people in a negative way. In public buildings- restaurants, office spaces and such then it should be banned for the benefit of the most but otherwise people should be relatively free to do things that don't harm others.

I understand about littering though, I hate that. Put out lots on trash cans/bins and enforce heavy littering fines on people who throw butts on the ground all over the place.

Did you go to many pubs before the ban? Moving away somewhere else doesn't really work as the place fills with smoke. As an asthmatic the smoking ban has been most welcome. My girlfriend who actually enjoys the occasional cigarette is also very glad of the ban. There's no harm done for people moving outside to smoke and then re-joining the smoke free environment inside.

I grew up amongst smokers so I guess the smell doesn't bother me that much. The pub thing I understand up to a point but of course once people got that banned they wanted to ban 'just outside the pub' and 'beer gardens' until basically if you're a smoker and go to the pub with your mates then you better smoke in the car.

I'm not a smoker and don't have much time for people who would take up the habit, but on the other hand nor do I care for rules-nazi's who, if they don't like something, they have to try and ban it as much as humanly possible for the 'benefit of all'.

 

[Blaze]

Basically I have no problem with smokers being 'outside' in the open air where cigarette smoke disperses quickly and doesn't affect people in a negative way. In public buildings- restaurants, office spaces and such then it should be banned for the benefit of the most but otherwise people should be relatively free to do things that don't harm others.

I understand about littering though, I hate that. Put out lots on trash cans/bins and enforce heavy littering fines on people who throw butts on the ground all over the place.

I can agree with that, as long as people smoke in an area where I won't be breathing in the smoke. What I hate is when people stand right by the door and have a smoke, cause at that point might as well be in the building smoking. Here we have something like a 10m restriction where you gotta smoke 10m from all public building entrances. Which I think is reasonable. Problem is no one listens to that law.

Is there a ban for smoking on pub/bar patios in the UK? Here it's still legal to smoke on the patio at bars.

 

[thetopher]

Is there a ban for smoking on pub/bar patios in the UK? Here it's still legal to smoke on the patio at bars.

They're trying to get another ban up in place at this moment to ban smoking in beer gardens. They'll probably succeed and so more freedoms will be restricted- even if their freedoms to do stupid things to yourself outdoors.

There are types of people who just like to restict other peoples freedoms. If they don't like something, even if it doesn't harm them in any way (or society really) they won't rest until its banned/resticted, and then they just move onto their next bette noir and then the next.
It's baffling really. There are plenty of things I hate- types of music, some sports, some cars, little motorized carts, tiny yappy dogs, bobblehead dolls, but it never occurs to be me to get into a position of power so I deny somebody else something simply because its what I want.
Sometimes I wonder if theat's the sole reason people want to get elected into places.

 

[Moonchild]

They're trying to get another ban up in place at this moment to ban smoking in beer gardens. They'll probably succeed and so more freedoms will be restricted- even if their freedoms to do stupid things to yourself outdoors.

There are types of people who just like to restict other peoples freedoms. If they don't like something, even if it doesn't harm them in any way (or society really) they won't rest until its banned/resticted, and then they just move onto their next bette noir and then the next.
It's baffling really. There are plenty of things I hate- types of music, some sports, some cars, little motorized carts, tiny yappy dogs, bobblehead dolls, but it never occurs to be me to get into a position of power so I deny somebody else something simply because its what I want.
Sometimes I wonder if theat's the sole reason people want to get elected into places.

I'm sorry, but other people are around you in a beer garden, why should their health have to suffer just because someone has a bad habit. Especially waitresses, they might not really have a lot of other job options and being stuck inhaling second hand smoke just to make enough money to live is terrible. I absolutely hate when I'm at an outdoor festival(patio smoking and all smoking within 5 metres of the door of a business is banned here) trying to had fun and I'm getting a face full of smoke and having an asthma attack.
Smoke at home, smoke in open area areas, don't smoke in crowds around other or anywhere where someone else has to inhale it.

 

[thetopher]

I'm sorry, but other people are around you in a beer garden, why should their health have to suffer just because someone has a bad habit.

Simply put because they have a right to be there just as much as you do. It's outside where the smoke can get blown away out into the open, you can move away from them- say 6 to 8 feet- and not really be affected by smoke inhalation. I can't imagine waitresses being that affected given their proximity to a smoker for a minute or two at most as they take/serve any orders- I know that was some of the rationale behind the original smoking ban, and I can see the reasoning when its in a confining space such as a restaurant or pub but outside in the open? Please.

There are plenty of annoying things people do in public that others might not like- cracking knuckles, loud gum chewing, whistling. Should we start banning those when enough people start to not like them?

 

[Moonchild]

Simply put because they have a right to be there just as much as you do. It's outside where the smoke can get blown away out into the open, you can move away from them- say 6 to 8 feet- and not really be affected by smoke inhalation. I can't imagine waitresses being that affected given their proximity to a smoker for a minute or two at most as they take/serve any orders- I know that was some of the rationale behind the original smoking ban, and I can see the reasoning when its in a confining space such as a restaurant or pub but outside in the open? Please.

There are plenty of annoying things people do in public that others might not like- cracking knuckles, loud gum chewing, whistling. Should we start banning those when enough people start to not like them?

Second hand smoke is damaging to health not just annoying like knuckle cracking. It can be detected in outdoor air about 9-12 feet from a smoker, if there are many smokers, which there typically are in outdoor drinking/festival atmospheres it's virtually impossible to get away from , especially if you're a waitress with very little control over where you stand. Second hand smoke is dangerous, not just unpleasant, and I don't see any reason to allow it in beer gardens/patios. The right to good health is more important than the right to do whatever you want.

 

[Mr Trick]

Second hand smoke is damaging to health not just annoying like knuckle cracking. It can be detected in outdoor air about 9-12 feet from a smoker, if there are many smokers, which there typically are in outdoor drinking/festival atmospheres it's virtually impossible to get away from , especially if you're a waitress with very little control over where you stand. Second hand smoke is dangerous, not just unpleasant, and I don't see any reason to allow it in beer gardens/patios. The right to good health is more important than the right to do whatever you want.

But unless you are going to ban altogether then people have to be allowed to Smoke somewhere. Like thetopher I really don't see people smoking outside away from others as a big deal.