Spawn Spike/Dawn

[white avenger]

Right, Angel is a pedophile. He fell in love with Buffy when she was 15.

(***Just a little off thread comment here*** In defense of Ol' Broody, back when he still had an active pulse, it wasn't uncommon at all for a young man to establish himself in a suitable with a relatively steady income before "seeking a bride," and in most cases, a girl 15 or 16 years old was quite common, or possibly even the norm. By the time girls reached 20, they were considered old maids if they weren't married. At least that's the way things worked here, and I see no reason that it shouldn't have been the same in Ireland)

As for any sort of relationship between Dawn and Spike, if I recall correctly, Dawn had a real crush on Spike by late Season 4 or early Season 5, but she knew even then that he was much more interested in Buffy than in her. And as for Spike, I'm pretty sure that if he ever tried anything like that with Dawn, Big Sis would have beaten the holy crap out of him before staking him with a fence post.

 

[Chosen Enemy]

(***Just a little off thread comment here*** In defense of Ol' Broody, back when he still had an active pulse, it wasn't uncommon at all for a young man to establish himself in a suitable with a relatively steady income before "seeking a bride," and in most cases, a girl 15 or 16 years old was quite common, or possibly even the norm. By the time girls reached 20, they were considered old maids if they weren't married. At least that's the way things worked here, and I see no reason that it shouldn't have been the same in Ireland)

All I've got to say on this is, Angel, welcome to the 20th century!

As for any sort of relationship between Dawn and Spike, if I recall correctly, Dawn had a real crush on Spike by late Season 4 or early Season 5, but she knew even then that he was much more interested in Buffy than in her. And as for Spike, I'm pretty sure that if he ever tried anything like that with Dawn, Big Sis would have beaten the holy crap out of him before staking him with a fence post.

Does the fact that Dawn was interested in Spike make it okay for them to (theoretically) be with each other? It wasn't even real love, it was only a crush. Just like she had a crush on Xander right before Spike. It has nothing to do with how Spike felt for her sister, her and Spike is just wrong. He's waaay too old for her. And it's not the same as if she was not underage, just for the point making, 21, and he's 60. She was 14(!), underage when she had a crush on Spike. He's probably mid20-mid30, by his human age.

 

[white avenger]

All I've got to say on this is, Angel, welcome to the 20th century!

I wasn't defending the relationship, just pointing out that that's the way that things were done during his mortal days. And as for Angel moving into the 20th century, I wholly agree, but we have to remember that when Angel first saw Buffy, as far as we could tell from the flashbacks, his experience with modern customs and morality was almost certainly limited at the very best. Until Whistler dragged him out of that alley, he has been a brooding loner. He didn't know how things were done in the modern world simply because he had avoided almost all contact with it, or at least that's the impression that I got.

 

[Dagenspear]

I wasn't defending the relationship, just pointing out that that's the way that things were done during his mortal days. And as for Angel moving into the 20th century, I wholly agree, but we have to remember that when Angel first saw Buffy, as far as we could tell from the flashbacks, his experience with modern customs and morality was almost certainly limited at the very best. Until Whistler dragged him out of that alley, he has been a brooding loner. He didn't know how things were done in the modern world simply because he had avoided almost all contact with it, or at least that's the impression that I got.

In the episodes Are You Now Or Have You Ever Been and Orpheus of ANGEL it showed that Angel had in fact lived in the world for a great deal of time. From the 1930's to the 1970's. So, yeah, he had no excuse.

 

[hazzard]

i like the friendship dawn and spike have--wouldn't want that to be different.

also, i think we're throwing around the term "pedophile" a little too freely. things aren't that black and white, ever.

 

[Dagenspear]

When it's true they are.

 

[Taake]

Regardless of actual age (vampire/teen dating is fairly common in fiction) I think my reason for disliking Spike and Dawn as an item would be that
A. We had seen them have a prior big brother protector/ little sis type of relationship and
B. Dawn acted much more like a child than a teenager. In earlier season we saw Buffy, Willow and Cordelia act - at the same age - with far more matureness which makes it hard to put Dawn into the same position as they were in a few years earlier. She didn't seem ready for a relationship with a human boy, even less a supernatural man. (When Dawn swoons of Spike it comes across as school girl crush, compare this to Cordelia's 'hello salty goodness', which does not)

 

[Aloverssoulz]

You can't put an age on love. Heart wants what it wants.

If Spike wanted to be with Dawn and got a soul for her instead of Buffy so they could be together it'd be nobody else's business. In fact, i'm sure Buffy would come round to the idea of the two of them together if he did get a soul just to be with Dawn. It'd remind her of how she felt about Angel.

Also, finding something "gross" doesn't make it wrong. It'd only be wrong if their relationship messed their lives up in some way. Like Dawn getting knocked up at 15 and living off welfare into her mid-20's like many women these days. A problem which has zero chance of happening when your using a vampire as a saddle.

And going by the James' song about Michelle "One baby, two, maybe three more years
You’ll be a full hot baby, have all your curves" I think he'd agree with me 😛 Controversial
Spike!

 

[badwolf]

Spawn! The name says it all! But damn I really want to read some Spawn fanfic now!

 

[KellGreen]

My thoughts are:

EEWWW!

Is Dawn really, really young (like NB at the beginning of S5) or really, really old (as old as the energy of the key)?

I don't think it's technically pedophelia here...I recall that a thing for adolescents has its own "phelia" name...?

I love, love, love Spike as big brother to Dawn, and I was really sad they couldn't get Michelle for The Girl In Question

Off topic a bit, I adore James' reaction when Nicky replies to fan question at a comic-con (i actually think it was the ECC) when he mentions about Xander & Dawn being together in the comics...they both seem to really think of Michelle as a little sister IRL

 

[Dagenspear]

You can't put an age on love.

Yes you can. The law has done it for us.

Heart wants what it wants.

There's a reason why two people truly love eachother. They fulfill a need in eachothers lives. Something that would make them less of themselves if they lost it. Maybe even something they didn't know they needed, until they experienced it. Whatever that may be. "Wants" have nothing to do with it.

 

[Skytteflickan88]

I used to be a HUGE Spawn fan and read lots of fanfics about them when I was younger or the same age as Dawn was on the show. I had no problem with it.

Now though, I have a problem with reading about Spike & Dawn. I keep seeing Harriet the Spy(Trachtenberg played her as a child) in front of me, even when I imagine reading the fics where she's 18 or 28 or whatever. I still think they'd be adorable together, but it's just hard to shut out the youthful image I have of the actress. I mean, when I was 15, I loved fics with Spike & her in season 5, but now, I wonder what the writers were thinking... Unless they were 15 too? Season 7 fics might work though, since Dawn was more mature. But as a person who finds pretty much anyone under 20 childish looking, I wonder how hundred year old vampires can get together with teen age girls... bad, bad Angel. I can see how one could love a teen ager, but... don't sleep with them if you're older than their grandads.

To sum up; used to be a fan, still kind of is, but I have a hard time not getting a gross image. But it's pretty easy for me to read about Xander & Dawn, so maybe it would work in print, twodimensional, rather than me imagining it in 3D?

 

[LizzieRainbow]

I have to agree that they worked as friends and putting them as anything more than that would have just ruined it for me.

 

[InsaneMystic]

I keep seeing Harriet the Spy(Trachtenberg played her as a child) in front of me, even when I imagine reading the fics where she's 18 or 28 or whatever. I still think they'd be adorable together, but it's just hard to shut out the youthful image I have of the actress.

I very much can relate to that! I always feel kinda icky when I'm turned on by Kirsten Dunst, seeing as I first saw her in Star Trek & Interview with the Vampire, so there's that little girl image haunting me even though she's long since a grown up woman now...

And Spawn... well, no. Just no. I really loved their friendship, but going into romance and/or sex between them just seems eww to me.

 

[Aloverssoulz]

Yes you can. The law has done it for us.

You can't put an age on love. You can put a law on the age people can screw. The law saying someone is to young or old to be with someone else won't stop them from caring for eachother.

 

[Dagenspear]

You can't put an age on love. You can put a law on the age people can screw. The law saying someone is to young or old to be with someone else won't stop them from caring for eachother.

No. But being too young can almost guarantee that what they're feeling isn't real and just a reaction of teenage hormones, making the whole situation null and void anyway.

 

[BuffyElevated]

For me, I don't compare Spike/Dawn to Buffy/Angel because of a couple of reasons...
Dawn was the almost the same age as Buffy was when she began dating Angel, but Dawn's maturity level was still very much that of a child, whereas Buffy was always very mature for her age. Her Slayer duties forced her to grow up a lot sooner than most girls at that age, so comparing Dawn at 15 to Buffy at 15 is like comparing apples to oranges.
For another, as someone else already pointed out, Angel was turned at a younger age than Spike. Technically even though he was older than Spike, he was still a little younger, if that makes sense... 🙂
Another thing? When we first met Angel, he looked a Hell of a lot younger than Spike... Somehow it didn't make the Bangel romance as creepy as it would have if Spike and Dawn had gotten together. LOL
I just prefer the big brother/little sister dynamic Spike and Dawn had. I loved the scenes in Season 5 and early Season 6 when he was taking care of her... They were so cute. 🙂

 

[Aloverssoulz]

No. But being too young can almost guarantee that what they're feeling isn't real and just a reaction of teenage hormones, making the whole situation null and void anyway.

Totally true, but that's all a part of growing up. So if Dawn and Spike were to end things because she realized she didn't truly love him it'd be okay. No harm, no foul, cause it's not like Spike is going to pull an Angel and start killing everyone if Dawn slept with him 😀

 

[kittenpoker]

I read a fanfic where dawn had been turned into a vampire and spike still took care of her....it was similar to the dynamic he had with dru where he sort of stood by and allowed her to do her thing (dawn turned out to be quite the sadistic vampire) and he loved her, but minus the sex. Ultimately though it was still the big brother/little sister bond that I think is what they truly have.

 

[wickedtiger86]

Spawn would have majorly freaked me out if it had happened in the show.

But I will say that I have been known to indulge in a fanfic or two, which take place usually about 10 years after the end of season 7, so Dawn has had some time to learn and grow. And I have really enjoyed some of those.