Spike Vs Wood - who were you rooting for?

[Flannen]

I didn't want either of them to kill the other, but I was rooting for Wood. Some of this might be down to the fact I dislike Spike, and figured that if Wood took him out, the Scoobies might get some more screen time! 😛

In all seriousness though, I felt so bad for Wood in this episode, and at any point in the serious in which they explored the storyline involving Nikki Wood.

I think it's far too easy to say 'that man is dead/he's not the same person'. Obviously, this was before Spike had a soul, but that doesn't mean that Wood should just 'get over it', by any means. If a human being had killed your mother, had gone to prison and paid penance for those sins, and became a 'new/changed' man, you wouldn't just 'get over it' and buy them candy and ice cream. I certainly wouldn't anyway.
Plus, you have to take into account, on a vampire level, how difficult many of the human characters found it to come to terms with the fact that Angel and Spike were 'good' vampires, especially considering they were two extremely violent and cruel vampires 'pre-soul.'
Giles never trusts Angel the way he did before after Angelus kills Jenny, even though Giles knows that person has been buried again. Kate Lockley also has first hand experience of how good Angel is, and how he helps perople, but she still finds it extremely difficult to come to terms with the fact he is a vampire, just like the ones who killed her father.

Wood had every right to feel the way he did, and maybe Buffy should have had a little more time for personal vendettas.

 

[ubi4soft]

In all seriousness though, I felt so bad for Wood in this episode, and at any point in the serious in which they explored the storyline involving Nikki Wood.

I think it's far too easy to say 'that man is dead/he's not the same person'.

Wood had every right to feel the way he did

First of all "I don't give a piss about your mum" is one of the worst things Spike has ever said (he got better in Damage after Dana cut of his hands)

On the other hand, can he apologize for killing Robin's mum ?

Angel Holtz is treated differently :

Holtz: I kept your son alive. You murdered mine.
Angel: I was different then.
Holtz: Yes. So was I. You feel remorse. You feel remorse yet you can't express it.
Angel: You want me to say I'm sorry? How can I? It wouldn't mean a thing.
Holtz: It would mean a little. Not much, but it would be something.
Angel: Then I'm sorry. For whatever little it might mean. It's all I've got.

And Holtz still wanted and had his revenge through Connor.

Wood didn't want or need to hear an apology from Spike. He went to revenge firsthand and get beat it back.

The Spike/Wood story is just another "revenge is a bad thing" moralizing story, but had some great flash-backs (you, me and mum) and a good fight.

 

[PrincessBuffy16]

Uf I must say I wasn't rooting for anyone. I never had a problem with Spike (with Spuffy I did, but never with Spike) and Wood was a new character so I didn't wanted him dead. But all that time I was thinking about, what if that was Buffy, I would want Spike dead at that minute! 😀

 

[ubi4soft]

Bad luck, Buffy was thinking for herself and wanted Spike undead and kicking

 

[BillyidolwannaB]

@ubi4soft: Also, Spike did say sorry twice, and Wood just went mad when he said it. Even though Spike wasn't apologizing to him, Wood didn't know that. A Spike apology would mean nothing to Wood.

 

[frankie]

I was rooting for Spike. I completely understood Wood's need for vengeance, but Spike was one of Buffy's soldiers, one of the few who had a chance at holding back the first, or at least the uber-vamps, and also protecting the potentials. It may hurt him, but I felt his mother was right - it's all about the mission. Spike was on the side of good now, taking him out of the picture was putting other peoples lives at risk. So, yup, i was rooting for Spike but at least Wood got to kick his ass a little bit. 🙂

 

[ToShanshuInLA]

Flannen said what I think on the matter better than I could have. 🙂

 

[Eleftheria]

By the time I was watching this episode...I was finally able to forgive Spike for his past, cause he didn't have a soul. Just like the Angel/Angelus thing. I felt that Robin was really bitter and he had every right to be angry. I tend to compare this situation with what happened with Holtz and Angel. We all know that once you have a soul, you know what's right and wrong and since they both(Angel and SPike-with-a-soul) tried to redeem themselves I support them.

I wasn't rooting for anyone. I didn't want any of them dead.Spike now had a soul and I would feel really sorry if Robin died cause I am sensitive towards the mother-Slayer thing.

But there is a big BUT here...I was ok until the moment Spike mentioned Robin's mother. Ok, Spike understood that what his vamp mom told him was coming from a demon and not by the real mother...but he had no right to tell Robin that Nikki didn't love him. He could just fight Robin off instead of talking.

And when Buffy came and said those things..."I need Spike and I would let him kill Robin if he has to"...it wasn't right according to my opinion. I know those were hard times, but there was a time that Buffy was sensitive and felt for people. I never expected her to say this to Robin. It was really irritating that she kept making excuses for Spike "cause he is the next stronger fighter that could stand in a fight"...She forgets that Spike went crazy and he could have killed lots of Potentials under the influence of the First and yet she kept keeping him inside the house.

 

[Skytteflickan88]

When Principle Woods was attacking Spike,was you hoping he'd kill him.
Or did you,like me hope that Spike kicked his ass.
I got so excited when i saw the outcome(i wont say in case some people have not seen it yet)and felt spike was in some way right.
Your views on this subject?

Up until I was about to write this post, I thought they were both jerks in equal messaures. But now, while I wanted Spike alive and still do, I totally see where Robin was coming from and see how Spike's behavior is worse.

Up until now, I thought that Robin should have seen that Spike was a good man now, not the same as the man that killed his mom. But then I remembered this scene Buffyverse Dialogue Database - CLIP: 'Wood to Spike: how's that soul working out for you?'

Spike does talk about his old self and mentiones he's different now, but the way he talked about killing, who wouldn't think "This guy is trouble"?

From what Robin knew, Spike was a guy with a messed of view of right and wrong, and ready to go off any minute. I understand why he wanted him dead. He did right with the info he had(unless I'm forgetting a important scene where Spike showed he was a good person without a doubt, and Robin could have seen it for himself). He thought Spike was likely to be bad, and even if he wasn't, he was a risk.

I'm not sure if he would have thought Spike needed to die in case he never found out that Spike killed his mom. Or maybe he would still have killed him, because he's a risk. I'd like to think that if Robin had wanted to, he could have seen who Spike trully was, but I think he was blinded by his hate.

And really, what sick **** walks around with the coat of one of his victims!?!

That really pissed me off and that might have been what made Robin make up his mind. I get that Spike might not have thought about where he got the coat up until Lies My Parents Told Me, but after that ep, he should have put it away. I get Spike was angry in LMPTM, telling Robin those things, taking the coat back, but it's still not right.

SPIKE: I wasn't talking to you. (Spike starts fighting, and from now he has the upper hand) I don't give a piss about your mum. She was a slayer. I was a vampire. That's the way the game is played.

PRINCIPAL WOOD: Game?

SPIKE: She knew what she was signing up for.

/Lies My Parenhts Told Me

He seems to think that just because Nikki was a slayer, she doesn't deserve as much respect or sympathy like other people, because she choose to get in the game. How could people who risk their lives to save other people not be worth as much as other people? How can he treat that coat as a throphy? She wasn't just a warrior, she was a mother trying to make the world a safer place for her son(I assume).

SPIKE: No, not *a* jacket. *My* jacket. You have no idea what I went through to get this.

ANGEL: You stripped it off a body of a dead slayer.

SPIKE: Well, which gives it great sentimental value. Besides, I've been wearin' it for over 30 years. It's like a part of me.

/The Girl In Question

I love Spike, but he makes me so angry sometimes. I think he has such potential to be a good person, and maybe by now in the comics he would feel bad about killing Nikki. Or maybe not.

 

[SpaVVn]

Of course SPIKE ... He was, beat 2 Slayers ...

 

[GrrArghx]

Spike. I didn't want either of them to die, obviously, but Spike was ensouled.
He shouldn't be held responsible for what he'd done without a concience.

 

[Professor Walsh]

Of course SPIKE ... He was, beat 2 Slayers ...

Yeah, he did kill two slayers. I'd say that's a reason to cheer for Wood.

 

[white avenger]

It would have been interesting to have seen the reactions of the others to what Giles and Wood had attempted. Apparently, however, the matter was never discussed after the fact. There must have been some curiosity, though, about the obvious change in the Buffy/Giles relationship.

 

[BuffyElevated]

That's a tough one for me... I liked both characters. I didn't want Spike to die, but I could definitely see where Robin was coming from and understand his need for vengeance against the vampire who killed his mother.

 

[Black Eye Guy]

Wood. Spike killed his mother he deserved to kick the crap out of Spike.

Knew he couldn't win, but Wood did deserve some justice.

 

[white avenger]

Yeah, he did kill two slayers. I'd say that's a reason to cheer for Wood.

Every bit as much reason to cheer Angel in the same circumstance. If Angelus is, in effect, a completely different character, whose sins Angel pretty much gets a pass on, then ensouled Spike should get the same courtesy for what soulless Spike did.

 

[Skanky Vamp]

I was rooting for Wood; it would have opened the door for some really remarkable story telling. Buffy just had her feelings hurt by Giles 'betrayal' but this would have splintered her, Giles, Wood & Xander in two opposing camps, in addition to removing a fan favorite in a scene that would ripple, reverberate and leave its mark on all of the fans. Honestly, did anyone expect Spike to die? It would have been the equivalent to Buffy's Nestea plunge into the dark abyss- one of those, what just happened moments.

 

[Black Eye Guy]

Every bit as much reason to cheer Angel in the same circumstance. If Angelus is, in effect, a completely different character, whose sins Angel pretty much gets a pass on, then ensouled Spike should get the same courtesy for what soulless Spike did.

Why does everyone keep saying Angel gets a pass on his Angelus's crimes. He got a spin off show were he went about seeking redemption, it was kinda a big deal.

Also Angel feels bad and apologizes for stuff, Spike beats Wood up and basically tells him his mom had it coming.

 

[Professor Walsh]

I was rooting for Wood; it would have opened the door for some really remarkable story telling. Buffy just had her feelings hurt by Giles 'betrayal' but this would have splintered her, Giles, Wood & Xander in two opposing camps, in addition to removing a fan favorite in a scene that would ripple, reverberate and leave its mark on all of the fans. Honestly, did anyone expect Spike to die? It would have been the equivalent to Buffy's Nestea plunge into the dark abyss- one of those, what just happened moments.

That would have been really good tv.

 

[ToShanshuInLA]

Why does everyone keep saying Angel gets a pass on his Angelus's crimes. He got a spin off show were he went about seeking redemption, it was kinda a big deal.

Pretty much. Season 3 of Angel had me a bit torn too. One can kinda root for Holtz even if you like Angel.

Angel doesn't even give himself a pass on anything.

Also Angel feels bad and apologizes for stuff, Spike beats Wood up and basically tells him his mom had it coming.

Yep. Also, Nikki apparently signed up to be a Slayer. I always wondered why he didn't immediately get rid of the coat of the woman he killed once he got re-ensouled.


I would appreciate it if nobody brought up Twangel because season 8 isn't over yet and we probably won't know everything until season 9 is through.