Spike's attempted rape

[white avenger]

No becasue he didn't stop, she kicked him off. Please stop referencing your imagined version of the show as fact.

How many times did you see Buffy kick or punch Spike in "Smashed" while saying that he couldn't hurt her before they wound up having sex? That was the comparison that I was making with what happened in "Seeing Red," which, if you would have actually bothered to read what I wrote, would have been fairly obvious. Why would Spike continue to fight in "Smashed," but stop after being kicked away only once in "Seeing Red?"

I didn't imagine either the fight scene in "Smashed" or the scene in "Seeing Red," but I am beginning to imagine a picture of you and the bodily orifice your head must be crammed into. I've tried to state my opinions logically and civilly, but apparently that fact seems to escape you. I have no illusions about the fact that not everyone here might share my opinions about any aspect of the show, but I fail to see how that gives you or anyone else the right to constantly ignore and dismiss them as an attempt to justify my support of a particular character.
I asked a logical question and presented logical reasons for asking it. If you can't offer a logical reply, why do you bother to reply at all?

 

[Black Eye Guy]

How many times did you see Buffy kick or punch Spike in "Smashed" while saying that he couldn't hurt her before they wound up having sex?

Yeah before they had sex, not during. They were fighting BEFORE they had sex, She wasn't kicking him across the room during sex. He would have kept going had he not been kicked across the room, He shouldn't get credit because he didn't try again.

That was the comparison that I was making with what happened in "Seeing Red," which, if you would have actually bothered to read what I wrote, would have been fairly obvious. Why would Spike continue to fight in "Smashed," but stop after being kicked away only once in "Seeing Red?"

Because they were fighting! not having sex!!! Once they started having sex the fighting stopped. Buffy kissed him, he didn't initiate the fight for sex! The sex and fighting is not intertwined!

I've tried to state my opinions logically and civilly, but apparently that fact seems to escape you. I have no illusions about the fact that not everyone here might share my opinions about any aspect of the show, but I fail to see how that gives you or anyone else the right to constantly ignore and dismiss them as an attempt to justify my support of a particular character.
I asked a logical question and presented logical reasons for asking it. If you can't offer a logical reply, why do you bother to reply at all?

You keep saying that your reason is not to justify Spikes action, then why bother? If you don't want to justify his actions whats your point?? You want to explain his actions so that people see him as less of a bad guy.

Dont talk to me about dismissing an opinion, look back over this thread and you'll see me quote your post and reply to each section, whereas you ignore a lot of my points. I did answer your question, I said she kicked him across the room, I have also never said that Spike didn't realize what he had done, but it's the fact that Buffy kicks him across the room that stops him not that he realizes he's done something wrong.

So what is your goal when your explaining spikes action? Cuz your way of doing it so far has been to justify his action and say Buffy lead him to that point, then say your not trying to justify his actions. Why explain them if your not looking to justify them?

 

[janas]

[MENTION=7900]Sweet[/MENTION]J: The idea of blaming Buffy is wrong on so many levels, that I don't know where to begin to tell you how much I disagree with you.
And there it was that emerges the rape culture. And there it was that "it is always the woman's fault, because it's she who causes the animalistic instincts of the male, rise to the surface" Is always the fault of Eve, the female temptress who incites Adam to eat the forbidden fruit.

Might it not be argued that if Buffy hadn't started the relationship in the first place, Spike would almost certainly never have gotten the idea to ever try anything like this at all?

..and so Spike never thought about having sex with Buffy? Yeah, right! The fault lies with Buffy ..of course. Spike would never have thought of anything like that if Buffy had not provoked him. Really? Spike was literally obsessed with this thought. Spike asked to Warren to build a robot, exactly identical to his "obsession" Spike has programmed the robot to perform sexual services, with sexual fantasies of a vulgarity unheard.

Willow: Um, Buffy, this thing with Spike, it isn't true, is it? You didn't, you know, sleep with Spike?
BuffyBot. No. I had sex with Spike. I'm sorry if it bothers you. You're my best friend.
Willow: I am. And I always will be no matter what you do. I'm just trying to figure out why this happened, and I think with your mom and everything, everyone was being all sympathetic and making you feel weak and Spike wasn't like that. So just this one time you just did something kinda crazy.
BuffyBot: It wasn't one time. It was lots of times. And lots of different ways. I can make sketches.

I know that this dialogue was meant to be humorous, but it is precisely for this reason that I think it's vulgar, dingy and offensive to all women. We should never joke about things like that. Thank you so much, Jane Espenson!

 

[white avenger]

Saying that the situation could have been avoided if Buffy hadn't started her affair in the first place is no more a defense of the attempted rape than saying that you should avoid a high crime zone is a defense of robbery and mugging. But, as someone has pointed out to me recently, this is becoming more an exercise in personal attack than intellectual discussion, I have elected to let this be my final contribution to the topic. I come to the Boards for fun, interesting conversation, and sharing ideas, not argument.

 

[Black Eye Guy]

Saying that the situation could have been avoided if Buffy hadn't started her affair in the first place is no more a defense of the attempted rape than saying that you should avoid a high crime zone is a defense of robbery and mugging. But, as someone has pointed out to me recently, this is becoming more an exercise in personal attack than intellectual discussion, I have elected to let this be my final contribution to the topic. I come to the Boards for fun, interesting conversation, and sharing ideas, not argument.

If someone you know was mugged, and after the fact you told them they could have avoided by not going there, you are definitely placing blame victim.
Had your argument been it could have been avoided if Spike had not focused on just getting in Buffys pants, it would have been entirely different.

I'm fine with leaving it there, but I dont believe asking someone to give credible sources for their opinions is a personal attack.

 

[Buffy Summers]

Okay, well, as this thread has reached over a hundred posts, I'm going to close it. But please feel free to open a new one to continue the conversation. Thanks!