I was totally fooled. I for a long time thought Spike didn't want his soul back but when you watch the future episodes he says that he got the soul for Buffy, that was his intention. Joss's confirmation means there is no doubt Spike wanted his soul back.
I seem to remember reading an interview with one of the writers (Jane Espenson, maybe? Not sure) in which she said that the writers did too good a job of fooling the viewers - but it was always the intention that Spike went to Africa to get his soul. They just wanted the audience to be surprised, so there was a fair bit of misdirection in the lead-up.
I was totally fooled. I for a long time thought Spike didn't want his soul back but when you watch the future episodes he says that he got the soul for Buffy, that was his intention. Joss's confirmation means there is no doubt Spike wanted his soul back.
I never took Spike's words seriously, he tends to bend the truth to his liking. I only realized he actually fought for his soul when JW said it himself.
I never took Spike's words seriously, he tends to bend the truth to his liking. I only realized he actually fought for his soul when JW said it himself.
This is such an amazing debate! Both sides put up really good arguments, and I have no idea who I agree with! I love pre-soul Spike and I'm sure I'll love him post-soul, maybe even more. I'm up to season 6 now so once I finish that as well as season 7 I'll come back and share my two cents 🙂
I will say that I think he got his soul for Buffy. I don't think he would have done so on his own accord, wake up one day and say, "I think I'll go get a soul today". As for the remorse/guilt thing, I'm not sure. The whole concept of a soul, what it is and does, on BtVS is sorta ambiguous. I don't think any of you guys are ever going to be right or wrong on this issue. The debate will last forever :tongue3:
Anyway, I'll come back to this thread once I'm finished watching. Maybe I'll have chosen a side. :biggrin3:
The way i've taken his ramblings etc (pre soul) were that he wanted his feelings for buffy gone, and the chip gone so he could go back to being 'the big bad'.
I think that that's how it started for Spike, after he initially fell in love with Buffy, but I think that changed after "Intervention."
I think when Spike first fell in love with Buffy, he blamed his chip because if it wasn't for that, he would still be a violent killer. He also blamed Drusilla because if she didn't leave him, he wouldn't have returned to Sunnydale and gotten the chip. The whole chain reaction thing.
Some people have already mentioned this, but I definitely saw this inner struggle in Spike as he struggled with his feelings for Buffy. The demon v. the human inside him. The demon in him didn't understand these feelings (think of when Angelus said "She made me feel" in s2), but the human inside him did understand. Spike was a unique vampire because he was capable of love since he had some humanity in him after being sired, like in s7
when he wanted to help his mother and Dru was like "Really?"
.
I think after Buffy kissed Spike in "Intervention," the human side in Spike started to gain momentum because that was the beginning of Spike starting to feel real love. The only kind of love he really knew with a woman up until that point was with Cecily and Dru. Yet, Cecily rejected him. And with Dru, I think he did love her as well, as the Judge pointed out, but it was more of a lustful relationship. And I think that was the kind the demon inside him knew best, which overpowered his human side. But, once Spike started to feel that real love, something changed inside him that made his human side start to come into effect. As he said in "Entropy," "Something happened to me, the way I feel about you. It's different and no matter how hard you try to convince yourself it isn't, it's real."
Yet, before the AR scene, even though Spike knew Buffy said she could never love him because, to her, he was "a soulless thing," he knew that she felt something when they were together. In a way, I think he was like Buffy in s6. He wanted to feel that real love with Buffy that he first felt with her in "Intervention." And, Buffy was giving him that feeling (or pieces of it) when they began sleeping together. But, once it stopped, I think that's when the demon inside tried to overpower his human side...the obsession was coming back, particularly after Buffy said it was only real to Spike and that he needed to move on in "Entropy," which caused Spike to cross a line with the AR scene.
And that horrifying look of shock on his face after he realized what he had done (or attempted to do). And he was more shocked that there was still that demon inside of him that could overpower the human side. "Why didn't I do? What has she done to me?" The fact that he didn't pursue it after Buffy stopped him said a lot to him. That the human side could overpower the demon and was still strong. But, for Spike, I think the demon needed to be controlled. And that's where he thought getting his soul would help. At the same time, he thought once he got his soul, Buffy would be able to truly love him and feel that real love as he did.
So, in a way, I guess I see the whole having a soul like a conscience as well (the ability to feel guilt over doing bad things), but also the means to overpower the demon inside a vampire. It makes them more human, as Anya says in s7
in "Beneath You," she points out that they all were "so...human." And Spike tries to cover and says, "I'm not. Demon, remember?" But, she sees right through him and sees that he has he soul now."
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