Spuffy #5 - General Discussion

[white avenger]

And now I understand more and more each day how Joss has tricked us all. I use to think the man was a genius; but I was young and I didn't look close enough.


Joss Whedon is a guy who gets quirky ideas; and was very good at getting talented people together to pull those ideas off.

Well, in that, he's in very good company. Walt Disney was a great idea man. His vision about what would work and what wouldn't was truly amazing. "Snow White" was the first full length animated movie ever made, and everybody thought that it would be a disaster. Instead, it'e one of the greatest movie classics of all times. Making a hero out of a rather obscure Tennessee Senator who went to Texas to make a better life and died there was another gamble, but even today, everybody knows the story of Davy Crockett and the Alamo. Disney, like Whedon, was an idea man without equal. And, undoubtedly, the best idea that either man ever had was to assemble the staffs who could give those ideas life.

Maybe someday, Buffyland will be as much a reality as Disneyland is today.

 

[Tranquillity]

I'm late to this #40 Fire escape party I know - But I've finally got the internet connected at my new place - I've missed you guys🙂

I loved the Spike and Buffy scene in #40 - it was awesome and 100% written by Joss, As was Buffy's "Dark Place" fantasy from a few issues back. Much of that issue was written by Scott Allie from Joss' notes but the Fantasy panels were all pure Joss. joss continues his tradition of penning the important Spuffy scenes (as he did from season 6 onwards) I think he likes our ship more than a little bit 😉

What did I love about our new Back Steps scene? Well firstly, it's a new back steps scene! Pure Awesome. Secondly it takes place on a frikkin fire escape - She wants the fire back. I love how they banter sarcastically at one another. Classic Spuffy. Spike watches Dancing with the Stars! Buffy calls him Blondie Bear! I love the implication that this is just the latest visit. I love that he parks the ship on top of her building - beneath her no more. I love that Spike is the staunchest Buffy defender around. I love that Buffy's coffee-cup-catching-reflexes desert her as she scrambles back inside the window - Spike discombobulates her. I love how he doesn't have an invitation yet. Even if it were Buffy's to give (i'm just accepting the mythology here) I don't think that Buffy should be in any hurry to give him that invitation. Most of all I love how Spike and Buffy are poised for season nine - so much more story for these two yet to come...

I saw on LJ someone point out (http://penny-lane-42.livejournal.com/193000.html - in the comments) that at the beginning of season 8 Buffy had a raft of possible suitors - Angel, Riley, Xander, Spike and then Satsu was added to the list. As the season progressed each one got knocked down; Angel killed Giles and now Buffy can't even look at him, Riley is still happily married, Xander is with her sister, and Satsu missed out because Buffy's not a lesbian. The only one left standing is Spike. Make of that what you will.

 

[StarSlayer]

So...question...

Is it weird that I love how SMG's new pilot will be on CBS (if picked up) and James has a recurring role on Hawaii Five-O, also on CBS? Lol 😀

 

[WakingNightmare]

So...question...

Is it weird that I love how SMG's new pilot will be on CBS (if picked up) and James has a recurring role on Hawaii Five-O, also on CBS? Lol 😀

Suppose the guys over there make some good casting choices 😀

 

[Miss Kitty]

I really loved the Buffy & Spike interactions in #40 ♥


An interesting quote from Joss (May, 2002). I discovered it when a member of BuffyForum posted it :

Wanda: Speaking of crossovers, any hope for Buffy and Angel diehards?
Joss: What I always say is: Guys, they're on two different networks. There's no way. Buffy and Angel physically could not exist. If they were on the same network, we would have done the Buffy-Spike thing anyway. But we probably would have had a crossover moment when they would go, "You're sleeping with whom?!" It became difficult in the third year to truly bring change to Buffy and Angel. People want to watch change. Growth. They want climax.

http://www.ttnmc.com/forums/index.php?topic=2699.0

 

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

I really loved the Buffy & Spike interactions on #40 ♥


An interesting quote from Joss (May, 2002). I discovered it when a member of BuffyForum posted it :



http://www.ttnmc.com/forums/index.php?topic=2699.0

I don't get it. What does he mean by this?

 

[Moscow Watcher]

Thank you for a great link, Miss Kitty!

I remember reading this interview - but I never visited that forum. Wow, the places where people discussed spoilers back in 2002 still exist! It's fascinating read - it puts current fandom meltdown re season 8 in perspective!


This weekend James talked about the moment when he found out that Spike will fall for Buffy.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQFyyLZPTz4[/ame]

His story brought big smile on my lips.

 

[WakingNightmare]

I finally got issue #40. Finally. It was freaking inhumane to make me wait that long. Well worth the wait though!

Like it's already been said, they had their scene on the firescape. Oddly enough, that's where people go to get away from the fire but Buffy goes out there looking for it. I'm going to guess it's because the two words are supposed to mean something else. The words fire and escape are there they're just used in different context than firescape. Buffy's life is looking pretty bleak, so she escapes to the fire. He's not her escape from the fire, he's her way to the fire, which she needs to be the Slayer. I love it. He's still her dark place.

I'm not sure if I like this or not yet but... Spike is dressed like Angel from S1. Exactly the same. White shirt, black jacket.

On the upside, I really did like Angel in S1. Along with being Buffy's love interest, he's also her unofficial Watcher. Giles has facts and books and names but Angel's got the get go about what's happening and what Buffy really needs to know about and I liked that. Now that Giles really is gone, Spike's taking up the role of Watcher and possible love interest the way Angel once did.

On the downside, does this mean that Spike thinks they only way to Buffy's heart is to be more Angel-like? He did the same thing in "Crush" after all. I just hope he's grown to be bigger than that.

While there's the definite set up to some Spuffy loving in S9, I doubt Buffy's going to just jump into a relationship anytime soon. Her love and trust for Angel was turned into something cheap and disgusting this time. She was raped by the universe. I think it'll be a long time before she's ready for a relationship.

I love it all though. Love it, love it, really do love it. :heart:

 

[Moscow Watcher]

WakingNightmare - Interesting interpretation. It never occurred to me to draw parallel between firescape in #40 and the fire imagery in earlier seasons.


Here's the transcript of the vid above James Marsters On Boinking Buffy and Beating Up Edward Cullen (New Orleans Wizard World Comic Con, 1-11)

(courtesy of Enisy)
When did you find out that you were going to be into Buffy?
James Marsters: Oh, okay, so I told Joss, if you wanna make me naked, just give me a few months' notice. He's just "Okay. Next season, you and Buffy are gonna start bumpin'." And I go, "Fabulous idea! I've been thinking the same thing, Joss! My character should fall in love with Buffy. But of course, Buffy never reciprocates... right?" And he goes "Weeeeeeeelllllll..."
And at that point I was just completely confused. Because I thought... I hated the chip, right? I thought that was a weak choice. I thought it would be much more interesting to watch Spike try to be good to impress Buffy and fail, miserably, every time, in a comedic way. And you can play that out for eight years! He's in love with her, he's trying to be a good guy, and it's funny. But the whole thing is predicated on the idea that she never notices, at all. And I was confused that she would ever give me the time of day. I was like, "Joss, what? I don't deserve her! What, d'you think -- remember the whole thing about the theme, Joss?" So yeah. Just disbelief. You know Joss. And then I realized, you know, he wrote a musical, so he really is crazy. What does Joss do? Anything he wants!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Fascinating meta "First Impressions" by effulgentgirl
http://effulgentgirl.livejournal.com/936.html

The very first thing Spike says to Buffy - the very first thing Spike says that Buffy hears - is: "Where's the phone? I need to call the police. There's some big guy out there trying to bite somebody."

Buffy's very first impression of Spike - a fleeting impression, barely notable - is as a person who is trying to help and who needs to be helped.

Of course, only minutes later Buffy realizes that it was a trick, that Spike is not an innocent bystander but a villain. That their very first interaction is based on her quickly and easily trusting and helping him, and him immediately betraying that trust, foreshadows a lot of their future dynamics.

(For Spike, there is no betrayal or deceit. He sees Buffy for the first time and knows exactly who she is (understands her with perfect clarity?) and is immediately attracted to her.)

I think that Joss invests a lot of meaning in first impressions. He frequently subverts them but not in a way that makes the original impression wrong or useless, instead making the characters ambiguous and multi-layered.

There is Angel and Buffy's first meeting, where he comes off as a creepy stalker and she distrusts him. He later turns out to be her friend and love interest - but also, as we see in Innocence, someone worth distrusting and also, we see in Becoming, a creepy stalker. (And that with the soul!)

I wonder if the circumstances of their first meeting play into the completely different standards to which Buffy will hold the two vampires. Buffy is, superficially, wrong about Angel being bad at first - and so she's less likely to get "fooled again" into seeing the darker side of him. Buffy is, superficially, wrong about Spike being good at first - and she won't get "fooled again" into seeing a good side of him.

 

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

Wow, what a great meta! Thanks so much for posting, Elena.

Of course, only minutes later Buffy realizes that it was a trick, that Spike is not an innocent bystander but a villain. That their very first interaction is based on her quickly and easily trusting and helping him, and him immediately betraying that trust, foreshadows a lot of their future dynamics.

I wonder if the circumstances of their first meeting play into the completely different standards to which Buffy will hold the two vampires. Buffy is, superficially, wrong about Angel being bad at first - and so she's less likely to get "fooled again" into seeing the darker side of him. Buffy is, superficially, wrong about Spike being good at first - and she won't get "fooled again" into seeing a good side of him.

All I have to say is; word.

I have not had a chance to pick up the new issue yet, but I'm so happy to hear about this scene in the fire escape. Sounds like classic Spuffy to me, and so cool that the writers are continuing to build on the "back steps" and fire imagery that helps to define Spuffy for many of us. Looks to me like Spuffy is being given a fighting chance.

Joss has clearly not forgotten the connection they have and the impact these two have on fans. Yet again, he has painted Bangel as a tragedy and Spuffy as a beacon on hope and light. An escape from the dark world. The proof is in the pudding, kids. Spike is and will be Buffy's man in the end. I know it. I feel it. I believe it. Spike is hers and she will always be his.

CARPE SPUFFY!

 

[Tranquillity]

How about some new questions... How about a comic theme?

1. Now that season 8 is finished, what are your overall thoughts and feelings about the story as a whole and Spike's part in it?

2. Spuffy prospects? - What do you think will happen between Spike and Buffy in season Nine

3. Is Buffy finally over Angel?

4. What was your favourite Spuffy moment in season 8?

5. Are you going to read season Nine? If you didn't read season 8 are you going to read season nine? What is your level of excitement for the new season?

 

[zobothehobo]

1. Now that season 8 is finished, what are your overall thoughts and feelings about the story as a whole and Spike's part in it?
I actually really enjoyed season 8. I read it in a relatively short time period, so that had a lot to do with it. Also I never really liked Angel. I enjoyed Spike's small part in this season. Spike was the champion. He was the voice of reason and the vampire with a soul fighting on the "good" and/or "right" side and I enjoyed that. A lot.

2. Spuffy prospects? - What do you think will happen between Spike and Buffy in season Nine
I have no idea what will happen. When it comes to my ships in general, it's not wise to ask me what will happen 'cause I really have a hard time differentiating "what will happen" "what should happen" and "what do you want to happen." Those three questions all sound the same to me. haha So what I want to happen is for Buffy to get her own place, invite Spike in immediately. They talk and are just friends. One day they get a little drunk and just talk about the events of Chosen which leads to one beautiful kiss. The kiss is so beautiful and moving it shakes both of them up and scares them both. They get defensive like they do for a while until one of them says "ok let's cut the crap" like Buffy did in End of Days. They then have a long talk about the kiss which leads to more kissing... and maybe some romantic passionate but kind and gentle love making. Not sex... love making... which is something we haven't seen Spuffy do... at least on screen. But like I said, that's just my "I want this to happen."

3. Is Buffy finally over Angel?
Eh... I think she's realized she needs to be. It's killing her that she needs to be over him, but I think she's realized her affection for him does more harm than good and she needs to not be near him and she needs to not do this again.

4. What was your favourite Spuffy moment in season 8?
The scene in issue 40 by far. Before issue 40 it was the day dream... but the scene in issue 40 blew the day dream out of the water. GAH I love that scene SO much. There aren't words to describe my love for that scene.

5. Are you going to read season Nine? If you didn't read season 8 are you going to read season nine? What is your level of excitement for the new season?
I plan on reading season 9. I'm really excited for season 9. Like REALLY excited. I really enjoyed season 8, and I really really enjoyed issue 40. To the best of my understanding, season 9 is going to be written in the style issue 40 was... which = MAJOR win in my book. So yeah...

 

[Spikefan31]

Thank you for a great link, Miss Kitty!

I remember reading this interview - but I never visited that forum. Wow, the places where people discussed spoilers back in 2002 still exist! It's fascinating read - it puts current fandom meltdown re season 8 in perspective!


This weekend James talked about the moment when he found out that Spike will fall for Buffy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQFyyLZPTz4

His story brought big smile on my lips.

Awwwww, he looks after his niece. That's so sweet. 🙂

Great video! Thanks for posting! 🙂

 

[xaphania]

Seasonal Spuffy is open for sign-ups! Woot!

seasonal_spuffy accepts any kind of vid, fanart, or fic that has never been posted anywhere else before.

The round is running from 1st April - 6th May.

Sign up here!

Go on. Shoo. Sign up. 😛

 

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

1. Now that season 8 is finished, what are your overall thoughts and feelings about the story as a whole and Spike's part in it?

I think Spike's part was very important. He gave Buffy a reality check. As for my feeling of the entire season as a whole? That's a longer rant for another post 😉

2. Spuffy prospects? - What do you think will happen between Spike and Buffy in season Nine?

Hopefully they will resume where they left off - friendship turning into love. I think it's clear that Joss hasn't forgotten the potential for Spuffy.

3. Is Buffy finally over Angel?

God, I sure hope so.

4. What was your favourite Spuffy moment in season 8?

The fantasy kiss sequence.

You're my dark place, Spike.

5. Are you going to read season Nine? If you didn't read season 8 are you going to read season nine? What is your level of excitement for the new season?

Definitely. I am very excited to see more Spuffy action.

 

[prophecygrrl]

1. Now that season 8 is finished, what are your overall thoughts and feelings about the story as a whole and Spike's part in it?

On the story as a whole, I...I don't know. I'm kind of stepping back from the wreckage as of right now, lol, and I'm thinking maybe it doesn't look as bad as it did at first. Still pretty bad, but not unsalvageable. I love the characterization of Xander, for example, and I love Satsu and some of the other Slayers.
I hated, hated Twilight and Twangel, and I hated that Buffy was basically raped and manipulated by the universe yet again. I hated that so much, because she does not deserve that. But Season 9 looks to be so much better and I really hope they properly deal with the fallout from Season 8.

I love Spike in Season 8! I love how he serves as a direct contrast to Angel (as far as souled champions go), I love his dynamic with Buffy and that within the first few panels of his return we see Spike use the phrase "nudey shenanigans" 😛, and I lovelovelove the fire escape. I think there's a lot of fans who think he's been brought back for fan service, but I disagree. All that information delivered by anyone else wouldn't be as significant or trustworthy. I think his presence was a really deliberate move by Joss, and his role in Season 9 looks even better.

2. Spuffy prospects? - What do you think will happen between Spike and Buffy in season Nine

I think they'll be really good friends, and maybe lovers in the future. He'll be her dark place, and she'll be his hero. I don't think she's ready for a relationship quite yet, but she won't be on her own. She needs to fight this war on her own terms, but I think what she says to Spike in "After Life" (is it After Life? I don't remember!) is very telling of the kind of relationship they'll always have: "I can be alone with you here". She can be herself, she can be strong on her own, and she can just be Buffy, even with Spike by her side. That's the kind of relationship she needs right now. She doesn't need to get lost in some other guy, to forget the rest of the world, or to forget herself. She doesn't need Angel. She needs someone who'll bring her back to earth, who won't hurt her, but will let her just be Buffy. Canon frames Spike as the one to do that...oh yeah, I'm definitely seeing some Spuffy prospects. 😀

3. Is Buffy finally over Angel?

Yep. Big time. There is no way she could ever think of starting a relationship with him ever again, and I'd say she might not even love him anymore. Maybe a small part of her always will, but not the same way she did before this Twilight business. The man she loved almost destroyed the world. What kind of man does that? What kind of hero willingly walks right into Twilight's trap like that? Buffy's had this ideal of Angel in her heart since she was sixteen. I think it's safe to say that ideal doesn't match up with reality, and she's finally seen that now.

4. What was your favourite Spuffy moment in season 8?

THE FIRE ESCAPE SCENE!! I also really love when Spike calls her "my hero".

5. Are you going to read season Nine? If you didn't read season 8 are you going to read season nine? What is your level of excitement for the new season?

I'm pretty excited for Season 9! Although to be honest, I'll mostly be reading for Spike, Buffy, and Faith. And give me even the smallest possibility of Spuffy, I'll be there, lol! 😉

 

[StarSlayer]

1. Now that season 8 is finished, what are your overall thoughts and feelings about the story as a whole and Spike's part in it?
Since I jumped into the comics when Spike came back, I don't think I can answer my overall feelings for the entire season. 🙂 But, I do like Spike's part so far and hope he doesn't make the same mistakes as Angel.

2. Spuffy prospects? - What do you think will happen between Spike and Buffy in season Nine
I agree with Zobo. I have no idea what will happen and part of me doesn't want to get high expectations because I love this couple so much. If something completely tears apart the possibility of Buffy and Spike (like Giles' death for Buffy and Angel), I would be crushed because I feel Spuffy fans have already gone through this (with the bathroom scene and all). But, one thing I would like to happen...I want Buffy and Spike to talk about what happened in the Hellmouth, how Buffy knew Spike was alive, and why Spike didn't try and find her. I want all that to be resolved. 🙂

3. Is Buffy finally over Angel?
Maybe, still not sure. I mean she can't even look at him after he killed Giles. And she can't say it was Angelus (like in s2 when Angelus tortured Giles), nor can she say it was really Twilight because Angel chose that path. But, Buffy does have ways of forgiving in time, so she may find a way to forgive Angel. I just hope it doesn't mean she still has feelings for him because Angel's choices led to her losing a lot.

4. What was your favourite Spuffy moment in season 8?
Okay, as much as I love Buffy's daydream of Spike and the fire escape scene, my favorite was actually the reunion. Hear me out here, lol.

After the space sex and the possibility of paradise, Buffy was on this emotional high with Angel. He gave her the weirdest, bestest, weirdest best day of her life. (Really Buffy?) He also apparently gave her perfection and then gave it up. For Buffy, she saw that as not only the love of her life, but the guy she would want to live it with. (Buffy sees a future with a vampire then?). So, despite Spike being here, it seems at this point like her mind is set on Angel and she wants to be with him. (Ugh, my Spuffy heart aches).

So, when Buffy approaches Spike, she's not going to play around with him. She gets straight to the point. She brushes off what he did in the Hellmouth as "crazy studly," although she just told Angel that Spike died saving her and her people (WTF Buffy?). She also wants to get right to business of what Spike knows, without any of his jokes or snarks. But, Spike beats her at her own game. In fact, I think he does better than that. He gets Buffy to realize the seriousness of her actions. The consequences of what she and Angel did. It's far from being "the best day" of Buffy's life. If anything, it may be the worst day of her life.

And the kicker...Buffy begins to question everything. Is Angel someone Buffy really sees as the love of her life? Is Angel the guy Buffy wants to live that life with? Does Angel really have her heart? But, more importantly, is Angel someone Buffy can really trust? IMO, it seems like the answer is no. She doesn't stand up for what Angel apparently did for her (giving up perfection and all) or how she feels toward Angel. Instead, she sulks, like a little kid who knows when they are bad. She listens to Spike and starts to realize that what he's saying is the truth...as he's always done. 🙂

And this then all leads to Buffy's daydream about Spike. He was the guy she could tell things she wasn't suppose to tell. Her dark place. She could, scratch that...can trust him. 🙂

5. Are you going to read season Nine? If you didn't read season 8 are you going to read season nine? What is your level of excitement for the new season?
I'm definitely going to read s9, although I didn't read much of s8. I'm VERY excited for the new season. 😀

 

[Litheran]

1. Now that season 8 is finished, what are your overall thoughts and feelings about the story as a whole and Spike's part in it?
Built some good momentum up until about the twentieth issue or so; didn't find it's footing again except for the last few issues.

2. Spuffy prospects? - What do you think will happen between Spike and Buffy in season Nine
Joss has made me far too cynical when it comes to Spuffy; I think they'll tap dance around their problems and the sexual tension will rise exponentially until Spike and Buffy attack each other like they're a couple of hyenas eying a nice big juicy Flutie steak.

3. Is Buffy finally over Angel?
If she isn't; then I vow to kick Allie and Whedon in the balls.

4. What was your favourite Spuffy moment in season 8?
Buffy. Shower. Steamy Daydream Tongue Dance.

5. Are you going to read season Nine? If you didn't read season 8 are you going to read season nine? What is your level of excitement for the new season?
I'll get around to it; but my schedule in the next few months might involve a lot of travel. So I'll have to play it by ear.

Bonus Question: If Joss came up to you and said you could write the dialogue and inflection for any character throughout the next season; who would it be?
I'd have to say Spike; but I can also write for Xander well; because we all have peni...oh god I just Anyaed this thread.

 

[faeriegrrl27]

Ugh. I'm in a predicament. I tried to read s8, but I pretty much hated it. But there's been so much buzz about Spuffy in the new season that I wanna read *that.* Is the eighth season essential for that and is it worth it?

 

[prophecygrrl]

Ugh. I'm in a predicament. I tried to read s8, but I pretty much hated it. But there's been so much buzz about Spuffy in the new season that I wanna read *that.* Is the eighth season essential for that and is it worth it?

You can always just read summaries of the season! 🙂 And if you just want some Spike and Spike/Buffy, he pretty much only appears in the last 4 or 5 issues. I wouldn't put the investment/time into reading the entire season if you don't want to.