The episode "Empty Spaces" pisses me off...

wehappyfew

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I'm watching it now.
The ending is sickening.
Willow and Dawn are disgusting to me.
Xander, I understand.
And those loud-mouthed potentials need to learn some respect.

Just had to vent.

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OHHHH I just got to the part where Dawn grits"Shut your mouth" to Rona....
Uh, you're the one who just kicked your GUARDIAN out of her own home. The woman who sacrificed herself for YOU! Much worse than a snide comment.

Anya had a point though.

Phew.
 
R
Rayne
AMEN BROTHA!!!
Yeah, I HATE when they kick her out. As much as I try to see their point, I can't fully manage it. Okay, Buffy's acting a little overpowering and all-knowing, and yes she made a mistake...she still makes a better leader than anybody there. She still deserves to be the one in charge.

I can understand the Potentials throwing a fit, because they don't know Buffy and that's just what they do...but Dawn's attitude...gahh. Drives me insane.
 
T
ThatDarreinShow
Seriously!
It's the single most maddening thing...ever.

I was seriously pissed that Dawn didn't die after that episode...SERIOUSLY pissed. Ungrateful little cow.
 
Old Master 3.0
Old Master 3.0
Well done.
Dawn makes me sick in this episode too. First she kicks out her sister - who sacrificed her LIFE for her - then she wants to act all her protective of her? Puh-lease.

The Potentials, I kinda get their attitude - they don't know Buffy, they haven't been around very long. But as for Willow, Xander, Anya, and Dawn - gah. Jerks.
 
Amen guys! I flipping HATE them for that. I can't believe what they did to her! I'm not big on Buffy but she didn't deserve that at all...

And it was Touched that Spike kicked Faith's ass...
 
This episode did do one very important thing, though. It led into "Touched," which contains the two greatest Spike scenes in the entire season, maybe the whole series: "You sad, sad, pathetic TRAITORS..." and "You're the one, Buffy." Not to mention having Spike kick Faith's a**. The only thing that could have made the episode better would have been if he could have slugged Giles just once before he left the house.
 
caitaintdead
caitaintdead
Even I would have liked that!
palabravampiress
palabravampiress
Giles may had deserved it... but no! Don't hurt Giles!
U
Urgent Power
[No message]
I will admit that Touched was the only episode where I was actually cheering for Spike, so it was definitely special...
 
couldn't stand it. when they brought in the potentials it was like bringing in 100 season 5 dawns and that just annoyed the hell outta me. then when it came to this ep dawn reverted back to that state of mind so it was like 101 season 5 dawns. grr, feel your pain
 
R
Randy
Hah! 100 "season 5 Dawns". I love it. So true, too.
Umm... wasn't that scene supposed to represent Buffy's failed ability to keep her house in order? As a general, she is supposed to plan and implement the attack, but she's also got to look out for the morale and well being of her troops. If they're not up to the task, no amount of ingenious strategy in the world will result in a victory. By pushing her troops too hard and taking a stupid chance that allowed Xander, the "glue" of the group, to be hurt, Buffy allowed order and morale within the group to reach the tipping point.

It was a lesson for everyone. Once Buffy came back, the group was more united than ever because they trusted their leader more and she valued them more. I felt heartbroken for Buffy and sort of appalled by the others when it was happening, but I did understand where everyone was coming from. All in all, I feel like it served an important purpose and helped our heroes to grow together as a much stronger, much more trusting unit.
 
W
wehappyfew
most buffy episodes serve a purpose. but, doesn't mean that the events don't irk me.
Umm... wasn't that scene supposed to represent Buffy's failed ability to keep her house in order? As a general, she is supposed to plan and implement the attack, but she's also got to look out for the morale and well being of her troops. If they're not up to the task, no amount of ingenious strategy in the world will result in a victory. By pushing her troops too hard and taking a stupid chance that allowed Xander, the "glue" of the group, to be hurt, Buffy allowed order and morale within the group to reach the tipping point.

It was a lesson for everyone. Once Buffy came back, the group was more united than ever because they trusted their leader more and she valued them more. I felt heartbroken for Buffy and sort of appalled by the others when it was happening, but I did understand where everyone was coming from. All in all, I feel like it served an important purpose and helped our heroes to grow together as a much stronger, much more trusting unit.


You're confusing the role of general with the role of morale officer. The general is the one who decides where, when, and how the force attacks. They determine the objective, weigh the chances, and give the orders. The general doesn't worry about who rolls up her sleeping bag, who unstops the plugged up toilet, or whether the troops are happy. The subordinates do that, and in this case, the subordinates were Spike, Xander, Willow, Giles, and, arguably, Faith. Dawn, Andrew, Wood, and the Potentials were, as Anya so accurately put it, cannon fodder, and as such, subject to being sacrificed for the greater good. As Wesley told Gunn in Pylea, "If I try to save this few, I'll wind up sacrificing the entire group and losing the war."

Buffy did make mistakes in this episode. The first was in not sharing her plans with her core group in advance and either getting their suggestions or assuring their support. Faith had every right to voice her objections to Buffy's plan, but not in front of the Potentials. That should have been addressed and settled well before announcing ANYTHING to the troops.

The second mistake was in picking that particular time, just when Xander returned from the hospital, to make her announcement. She should have waited until Spike returned at the earliest, in case he had information (which he, as it turns out did) pertinent to the situation.

The third mistake was in backing down when the others mutinied, and that is precisely what it was: mutiny in time of war, which is a capital offense. If there was ever a "My way or the highway" moment, that was it. If ANYBODY left that night, it should have been the mutineers, not Buffy. There were certainly plenty of vacant houses in Sunnydale, so they would not have suffered for shelter, but even if they had, even if there was a howling blizzard outside, complete with wolves and polar bears, they were the ones who should have left.

The fourth, final, and probably biggest mistake in the whole affair was, after Buffy returned, Scythe in hand, she should have had a behind closed doors meeting with Giles, Willow, Faith, and Xander, (with Spike standing by as Master At Arms) and had that belated "my way or the highway" speech. Anyone not 100% in support of the plan should have been escorted down the stairs, out the door, and into the street with directions to the nearest interstate highway.
 
Old Master 3.0
Old Master 3.0
Well done, sir.
W
wehappyfew
thanks, this helps with something i'm writing too :)
E
EveryNiteISaveU
i completely agree.
Every time I watch this episode I yell at the screen and cursing. Well Dawn, always hated her, and especially in this season, and the highlight was this episode. To my surprise, the one that was actually the most okay one, sort of, more than the others anyway, was Faith. It was interesting. And I can't help wondering what would have happened if Spike were there? Or even Andrew.
 
palabra, while I agree with you in part...kicking her out of her own house was just an insult and a pure slap in the face. If I'd been her I woulda said, "you bitches got a problem, YOU leave...I'm the one paying for this place, unlike you sad moochers"
 
T
ThatDarreinShow
[No message]
Every time I watch this episode I yell at the screen and cursing. Well Dawn, always hated her, and especially in this season, and the highlight was this episode. To my surprise, the one that was actually the most okay one, sort of, more than the others anyway, was Faith. It was interesting. And I can't help wondering what would have happened if Spike were there? Or even Andrew.


Faith made a mistake by questioning Buffy's authority in front of the others, and I think that she realized her mistake almost immediately, but things just got out of hand too quickly. I think that it says a great deal for Faith's character that she was the one, the ONLY one, to follow Buffy outside and try to explain her actions, AND she was the one who later sent some of the others to try to find her and be sure that she was alright.

It's also interesting that Faith is the one to take charge in Buffy's absence. Even though she IS the other Slayer, there were others there, primarily Giles, but also Willow, who had taken charge in the past when it became necessary. Of the central group, she was actually the least one experienced in demon fighting, since Faith had, basically, only pursued her duties for part of Season 3. The rest of the time, she was either in a coma or in prison.

As for what would have happened if Spike had been there, I don't think that the problem would have ever gotten to the point of Buffy leaving her home. He would have physically thrown all of the others out whatever window or door might be handy. (Well, he might have have been relatively gentle with the Potentials, but not the rest. Giles and Wood, he would probably have dribbled out like basketballs.) Who would there have been to stop him? Faith couldn't, and Buffy probably wouldn't. In fact, once the fun started, they just might have joined in.
 
yea this episode sucked. Buffy made mistakes but to have dawn tell her to leave was absolutely rediculous to me and completely out of character. Especially when you consider everything buffy has done for dawn, it was like the writers wanted us to hate dawn...you really had to fight to understand just what Dawn was thinking half the time.

That said, i like that they solidifed the "in the end, the slayer is always alone" theme. She has her friends, and their a vital form of support, and the dynamic of the group is needed. But at the end of the day, shes the one who's had to be in control all these years and its a tough gig. This episode just showed what it is to truly be a slayer... even your friends can turn against you because they can never understand, no one can...
 
I'm watching it now.
The ending is sickening.
Willow and Dawn are disgusting to me.
Xander, I understand.
And those loud-mouthed potentials need to learn some respect.

Just had to vent.

---
OHHHH I just got to the part where Dawn grits"Shut your mouth" to Rona....
Uh, you're the one who just kicked your GUARDIAN out of her own home. The woman who sacrificed herself for YOU! Much worse than a snide comment.

Anya had a point though.

Phew.


I didn't like how how Dawn, the Scoobies and the Potentials handled the situation with Buffy, either. On the other hand, Buffy did bring this rejection upon herself.
 
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