Wow, you got into quite a debate over my post. I will clarify what I said. On Ats, human characters are allowed to be powerful, to slay vampires and fight demons. Gunn is an incredible fighter and a great leader. He has brains and the ability not only to protect himself, but also to protect others through slaying demons. Wesley is also a strong fighter. He is intelligent and knows more things about the supernatural world than any other character I've encountered. Wesley uses guns, but that doesn't make him less of a fighter. A gun is a weapon and an "equalizer" that makes him capable of killing some demons that even Angel can't easily kill. If you recall, Wesley easily shot and killed Skip.
One of my questions has always been: Why don't more characters on Ats use guns? I'm sure Wesley spends hours in the shooting range somewhere to keep his skills. Why don't other members of the team join him?
My problem with Ats is that most of the characters are human and while the men are able to physically fight their enemies, the in women in Angel's group don't directly "kick ass." The absence of strong, powerful, human, female fighters is troubling to me. Especially since many of the human men on Angel can fight well.
Holtz provided a very interesting example of a powerful human character. Before he went to Kortof (I can't spell it), Holtz was a consummate vampire slayer without any supernatural aid. Justine, who Holtz only trained for a short time, was able to fight. She wasn't a primary character though, and was not as strong a fighter as the men in Angel's group or Holtz. She managed to slit Wesley's throat, but only by surprise. Mentally she was much weaker than Wesley and he was able to keep her in a closet.
Cordy and Fred have had many opportunities to become better fighters. Cordy expressed an interest in learning how to fight but Fred never did. I can understand why Cordy doesn't go out fighting with the rest of the group. Her unpredictable and increasingly painful visions make it impossible for her to trust herself in combat. If she has a vision she while fighting at best she will be incapacitated and someone will have to rescue her.
Despite the fact that Cordy didn't go out fighting with the group very often, she learned basic self-defense against monsters. My problem with the show is that Fred never became a fighter, but both Wesley and Gunn are strong fighters. Fred is smart, but never took a lead role in fights and couldn't really defend herself against much of what the group faces. She was also Gunn and Wesley's love interest. She was the pretty, smart woman who has to be protected by the men who love her.
It's just odd to me that women in Angel aren't allowed to be strong fighters. If Wesley could learn to kick ass, Fred should be able to do so as well. I liked it in S4 when Fred was able to save the world, but she didn't really fight to do so. Fred out thought her opponents and discovered how to free Angel from Jasmine. What is hard for me to watch is that everyone just returned to their pre-Jasmine roles in the group in S5. Fred didn't remember saving the world.
I like Fred; I would have loved to see her develop into a fighter. Her size should not preclude fighting ability. I just wish that for once on Ats, or Buffy for that matter, that a woman could become a strong physical fighter without supernatural help. Fred had so much room to grow. If they wanted a stronger character for Acker, the writers could have built on the themes of S4 and developed Fred into a fighter and a leading member of the group. Illyria wasn't necessary. As I've said before, I don't mind Illyria. I just don't love her.
I really don't like the way Fred's death was written though. When Fred was dying, she didn't ask what was wrong with her or if she could be saved. She just died tragically and let the men in the group try to develop a way to save her. She got up once to look in the science lab. But research was impossible for her while deathly ill and there were other ways she could have handled her condition.
Towards the end of the episode, with all Fred knows about physiology, she should have known her body was too damaged to survive. Why then didn't she talk to Wesley about her death and make him promise not to let Illyria be born? Wesley didn't tell her about the ax he brought with him to behead the demon. The ax didn't work; he used it too late, but that's not the point.
It is condescending and typical of Wesley not to discuss with Fred what he should do if Angel can't save her. Wesley just reassured Fred and told her against all evidence that she would be all right. Fred knew that she was dying. Wesley and the group didn't have to treat her like a child and avoid telling her the realities of the situation. Fred had a right to know and not knowing what is happening to her body could only have made death harder for Fred.
One of my questions has always been: Why don't more characters on Ats use guns? I'm sure Wesley spends hours in the shooting range somewhere to keep his skills. Why don't other members of the team join him?
My problem with Ats is that most of the characters are human and while the men are able to physically fight their enemies, the in women in Angel's group don't directly "kick ass." The absence of strong, powerful, human, female fighters is troubling to me. Especially since many of the human men on Angel can fight well.
Holtz provided a very interesting example of a powerful human character. Before he went to Kortof (I can't spell it), Holtz was a consummate vampire slayer without any supernatural aid. Justine, who Holtz only trained for a short time, was able to fight. She wasn't a primary character though, and was not as strong a fighter as the men in Angel's group or Holtz. She managed to slit Wesley's throat, but only by surprise. Mentally she was much weaker than Wesley and he was able to keep her in a closet.
Cordy and Fred have had many opportunities to become better fighters. Cordy expressed an interest in learning how to fight but Fred never did. I can understand why Cordy doesn't go out fighting with the rest of the group. Her unpredictable and increasingly painful visions make it impossible for her to trust herself in combat. If she has a vision she while fighting at best she will be incapacitated and someone will have to rescue her.
Despite the fact that Cordy didn't go out fighting with the group very often, she learned basic self-defense against monsters. My problem with the show is that Fred never became a fighter, but both Wesley and Gunn are strong fighters. Fred is smart, but never took a lead role in fights and couldn't really defend herself against much of what the group faces. She was also Gunn and Wesley's love interest. She was the pretty, smart woman who has to be protected by the men who love her.
It's just odd to me that women in Angel aren't allowed to be strong fighters. If Wesley could learn to kick ass, Fred should be able to do so as well. I liked it in S4 when Fred was able to save the world, but she didn't really fight to do so. Fred out thought her opponents and discovered how to free Angel from Jasmine. What is hard for me to watch is that everyone just returned to their pre-Jasmine roles in the group in S5. Fred didn't remember saving the world.
I like Fred; I would have loved to see her develop into a fighter. Her size should not preclude fighting ability. I just wish that for once on Ats, or Buffy for that matter, that a woman could become a strong physical fighter without supernatural help. Fred had so much room to grow. If they wanted a stronger character for Acker, the writers could have built on the themes of S4 and developed Fred into a fighter and a leading member of the group. Illyria wasn't necessary. As I've said before, I don't mind Illyria. I just don't love her.
I really don't like the way Fred's death was written though. When Fred was dying, she didn't ask what was wrong with her or if she could be saved. She just died tragically and let the men in the group try to develop a way to save her. She got up once to look in the science lab. But research was impossible for her while deathly ill and there were other ways she could have handled her condition.
Towards the end of the episode, with all Fred knows about physiology, she should have known her body was too damaged to survive. Why then didn't she talk to Wesley about her death and make him promise not to let Illyria be born? Wesley didn't tell her about the ax he brought with him to behead the demon. The ax didn't work; he used it too late, but that's not the point.
It is condescending and typical of Wesley not to discuss with Fred what he should do if Angel can't save her. Wesley just reassured Fred and told her against all evidence that she would be all right. Fred knew that she was dying. Wesley and the group didn't have to treat her like a child and avoid telling her the realities of the situation. Fred had a right to know and not knowing what is happening to her body could only have made death harder for Fred.
