The maddest you've ever been at Joss Whedon

[Gum Gnome33]

Don't know how many of these are specifically Joss and how many of them just got his quick approval.

-Cordy's story line in Angel 4 (as almost everyone has already said!)

-The way Anya's death was handled (the aftermath really)

-"The Doctor" as a plot device

-Kennedy, (both the character and the timing--though I might have liked the character more if the timing was better. She's ok in season 8 I guess)

-Season 7 Giles. So disappointing

-The character inconsistencies (see above)

 

[Amyrat151]

Oh okay, thank you. I don't have a response that that, really. I mean what else could have been done besides making Cordelia pregnant and then having to rewrite it. I can't think of an elegant way out of that situation. But watching fourth season again, I actually think it's better than I remembered, so I think it all turned out okay in the end, not great, but okay.

 

[mayfever]

I guess I'm mostly mad at Joss for being a Jack of all trades, who has a million things on the go and can't give them the attention they deserve,so as a result they all suffer. I get that a creative genius like him needs more than one outlet, but seriously - how good would Buffy S6, Angel S3 AND Firefly have been if Joss had had the time to devote himself to each?

If you ask specifically, though, here's the list of Things May Is Not Happy With:

- ALL of BtVS season 6 (I have MAJOR issues with Marti Noxon)
- the ending of Cordy's arc, especially the Connor/Cordy thing
- Fresley
- Kennedy
- the comics

 

[Aloverssoulz]

*The shows not ending with Buffy and Angel getting back together.

*The Initiative and the set of The Initiative. To bright and shiny when the past 3 seasons were dark toned.

 

[Amyrat151]

Mayfever, was your problem with Fred and Wesley their relationship or how it was handled?
Yes season 6 does have its obvious problems, but I really like season 3 of Angel.

 

[purpledreams]

He let behind the scenes drama piss him off enough to destroy a character. 'Nuff said...

 

[sisterofmercy]

When watching the show I never really had a problem with anything, it's his creation afterall so who are we to judge? But since coming to the boards and reading what people have written about various facets of the show, I have to admit that the one dimensional aspect to some of the characters is actually quite annoying.

Characters like Tara and Anya had so much potential but Joss just seemed to push them to the background and use them as plot devices, rather than give them any element of depth. I think it was kind of done for Anya, but only superficially, and as for Tara she was simply 'Willow's girlfriend' rather than a strong witch.

 

[Christopher]

Almost everything regarding Buffy season six & seven.

 

[Firefly]

Basically all of these!

 

[Scarlett Blade]

One word: CORDY
*msg too short*

 

[KellGreen]

Also in Season 6 for reducing rape to a plot device, because WTF JOSS. Not okay.

Yes, this for me big-time; especially after hearing how hard it was on James to play. There were other things they could have utilised as a catalyst for Spike going to get his soul back.

With other things, I am not sure how much would really be aimed at Joss; like I hated Giles leaving, but I think that had more to do with the actor than Joss?

The way Oz left.

Tearing them all apart in S7 with them all throwing Buffy out of her own house.

Writing things around Dawn, so we are supposed to be on Buffy's side wanting to save her, yet making her so annoying... (although I can mostly tolerate S7 Dawn - see above exception).

Ridiculous Spike (most of S5)

Kennedy

While I am a Spuffy shipper now, I hated Joss for making me cry like a baby at the end of Becoming Pt 2 when it aired.

 

[Taake]

*cough cough* end of season 8 *cough cough*

 

[Flannen]

I don't like Joss, it's no secret lol. I remain appalled at his stellar way of brushing rape under the carpet. Why use a storyline if you are completely incompetent at dealing with it completely?

In terms of characters, there is only one thing I will never, ever forgive Joss for. Paul Ballard.

I was so angry at the end of Dollhouse. Not only for ruining my favourite relationship but for the way it happened. The guy was a freakin' hero and he should have died a hero's death if Joss really had to continue to not blow us away with his original plot lines. I know Joss has done that kind of thing before but it was way worse than Anya biting it. Way worse!

 

[Skanky Vamp]

I get that a creative genius like him needs more than one outlet, but seriously -

I am starting more and more to think he is not a genius at all.. I think he has ADHD and cant STAY on one project. He has great ideas, gets them off and running, and then he is off and running. Honestly, he is working on The Avengers, which could propel him through the stratosphere and he is still yammering about Cabin in the Woods and working on music for Dr. Horrible. Really? Big picture maybe focus on instead.

 

[Flannen]

I am starting more and more to think he is not a genius at all.. I think he has ADHD and cant STAY on one project. He has great ideas, gets them off and running, and then he is off and running. Honestly, he is working on The Avengers, which could propel him through the stratosphere and he is still yammering about Cabin in the Woods and working on music for Dr. Horrible. Really? Big picture maybe focus on instead.

I don't think he's a genius either, as it goes. But it's not just that he can't stay on one project, there is also the issue that he can't let some of them go. I guess he just wants to be the one to ensure his shows are dead and buried.

 

[Skanky Vamp]

Well, you often see those one hit wonders 40 years later, balding and out out shape up on the stage still singing those one-hits that made them famous. If he lets some of them go then someone else may do it *gasp* better *gasp* than he did and he would have nothing to fall back on.

 

[Kean]

*I have HUGE problems with how he punishes people for having sex. Which, except for the case of Angel, has always been the women of the show.

* Seeing Red and its aftermath. If you do not plan to deal with the issue of rape responsibly, then don't touch it at all.

*The slaughtering of Cordelia's character in S4. Both the character and the actor who played her deserved much much more. And while You're Welcome helps. It in now way makes up for how he ripped Cordy apart.

* Angel S8. What he did to Cordy was child's play compared to this.

 

[Amyrat151]

Yeah, I don't think Joss will end up as a balding sad man. He didn't become a geek icon over night. He was a TV and movie writer for about 10 years before Buffy. He's built his career over 25 years to where it is now. So he's not one hit wonder materiel. He is a great writer and director, but he's not genius all the time. And I say this as someone who probably could join the cult of Joss. His conception, in my opinion, is out matched by just about anyone, since the messages he puts in his work only become more relevant to be as I grow up. His execution does not always match up however, and then you get things like the AR. Although, who was actually to blame for that?

 

[Icarium]

In terms of characters, there is only one thing I will never, ever forgive Joss for. Paul Ballard.

I don't forgive Joss for Ballard too but for a different reason. The guy was incredibly dull and shouldn't even have been in the series in the first place. 🙂

Anyway, that's a tough choice, there are so many things I am still mad about. But I think Willow's S6 arc is what annoys me the most. It's an incredibly stupid story-arc, lacking any substance and logic whatsoever, that destroyed the second most important character in the series for the sake of three episodes of cartoonish villainy and an utterly ridiculous PSA about drugs. The words "so not worth it" are a tad redundant at this juncture.

Honourable mentions for Spuffy, Dracula being Xander's buddy in the comics, "Lies Joss Whedon Told Me", the positively retarded way in which Riley, Giles and Oz were written out, Harmony being Angel's secretary, Anyanka 2.0, Xander summoning Sweet, the Summers blood plot hole in The Gift, Spike not being staked, the entire main story arc of S8, etc.

I am starting more and more to think he is not a genius at all..

Only starting? Let's face it, the guy is way overrated. I love like half of his work but if I see one more time a rant about how nothing is ever Joss's fault and it was all Marti Noxon/Fox/the actors/the stupid fans/the little green aliens from Alpha Centauri's fault I will probably pull a Xander and say "Can I be blind too?". 🙂

 

[The Unspoken]

*I have HUGE problems with how he punishes people for having sex. Which, except for the case of Angel, has always been the women of the show.

Well, there's the attempted rape and/or murder of Xander in 'Consequences'. And it's a stretch, but perhaps Giles in 'The Dark Age' (the episode does mention that summoning that demon was also done during orgies 🙂).

By the way, could you mention which women get punished for having sex? I can only recall Buffy herself, with the Angelus arc and the attempted rape.

Only starting? Let's face it, the guy is way overrated. I love like half of his work but if I see one more time a rant about how nothing is ever Joss's fault and it was all Marti Noxon/Fox/the actors/the stupid fans/the little green aliens from Alpha Centauri's fault I will probably pull a Xander and say "Can I be blind too?". 🙂

Well said. For example, the only episode he writes for season 6, 'Once More with Feeling', turns Xander into a mass murderer for the sake of a cheap joke. Though I do love me some Marti bashing.