The maddest you've ever been at Joss Whedon
- Thread starter Amyrat151
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Summerlilly
Covert Superhero
Ok I may have to retract may previous post. What he did to Cordy REALLY pissed me off!😱I mean, come on!
Goby
Brb, shipping Snoyce
My point being that he takes risks, and sometimes they fail (like Kennnedy). But he is still brilliant, still a great writer, and indeed a sucess. Is he Hemingway? Of course not. But he is still an amazing talent.
VisionGirl
[No message]
Tranquillity
That'll put marzipan in your pie plate bingo
I've never been mad at Joss personally for anything that happened in the show. Sure, I haven't loved every development that ever happend in the Buffyverse but I can't really think of one that had made me boiling mad at Joss. Mad at the story, maybe, for a little while, but not mad at Joss. Inevitibly, I always come to the conclusion that these unpopular developments are made for a reason and they usually lead to interesting places narratively speaking...
Oh, hang on . . . acctually, there was one thing that made me pretty mad - that god-awful spacefrak. Not because I think it shouldn't have happened neccesarily, but did we really need to see all those horribly drawn cartoony pictures? To present it that way and in that style was just wrong.
Oh, hang on . . . acctually, there was one thing that made me pretty mad - that god-awful spacefrak. Not because I think it shouldn't have happened neccesarily, but did we really need to see all those horribly drawn cartoony pictures? To present it that way and in that style was just wrong.
So you're assuming I'm now a fan of pop music because I've said that Joss is overrated because he isn't very well known? Well, my music collection consists of people my friends know even less than Joss Whedon.
Yup, geek icon and overrated. If I put Whedon in the dictionary I would follow his name with those words 😉. I'm so over the whole TV history thing as well. As really, if you're saying that you don't care about record sales when it comes to music, why would all his TV magazine glory count for anything?
Sorry if my dislike for Joss offends but its not going anywhere 😉
I don't dislike Whedon but I certainly agree about the geek icon and overrated part. When I was younger I used to buy into the Joss hype, but to me now I have to say that that's simply not true. He has good ideas, yes. But he's far from alone in making them come to fruition and Buffy's rise to success has more to do with being in the right place at the right time than it has to do with its creator being a "genius".
Sometimes it feels like there's too much idolizing of Whedon for my taste, you can still love and adore his work even if you don't adore the man. 🙂
As for the "genius" part I stand by those quotation marks and will leave off wih a quote from Sheldon Cooper; "I refuse to contribute to the devaluation of the word genius"
caitaintdead
Sheldon Cooper quote karma.
zobothehobo
Scooby
I'm going to give my two cents... I'm really sleep deprived so I'm not sure this is going to make sense to the argument here... but it's something I want to say on the subject of Joss.
There's idolizing of every pop culture icon/figure. And it gets extreme... I love Joss' work, I do. I think he's great at what he does. I've called him a genius before, but I've also called myself a genius before.. and my sister... and my cat. I don't know if he's a genius.. but he's got a great creative mind, and that's something special. I don't know if it's because I'm new to the fandom, but I think the overrated part comes in where people say everything he does is golden and flawless simply because he did it. Nothing is flawless... and some things Joss does are absolute gold (Buffy), some things less so (Dollhouse (although I like Dollhouse, I'm not one who hates it... but it's not as good as Buffy)).
Now I will say it does kind of annoy me as someone who is new to the fandom how much Joss hate there is. Many of you have said that when you were younger and newer to the fandom and Joss, you liked him a lot more but now you've grown tired of him. I'd like that same chance. Sometimes I get really defensive of Joss because I'm new to the fandom and I haven't had a chance to get tired of things like his ego or his destruction of romantic relationships or his ADD attitude towards his work. My first Whedon-work was Dr. Horrible and I watched it in June 2010. A couple weeks later, I watched Buffy. It's not even been a year for me. So I do worship him more than someone who's been here a while... Just because it's still new to me. I don't think he's flawless or Jesus or whatever... and I do think some things he does are going to be better than others... But he is a man in pop culture I respect. He is also someone I'm a new fan of, and therefore, rather enthusiastic.
There's idolizing of every pop culture icon/figure. And it gets extreme... I love Joss' work, I do. I think he's great at what he does. I've called him a genius before, but I've also called myself a genius before.. and my sister... and my cat. I don't know if he's a genius.. but he's got a great creative mind, and that's something special. I don't know if it's because I'm new to the fandom, but I think the overrated part comes in where people say everything he does is golden and flawless simply because he did it. Nothing is flawless... and some things Joss does are absolute gold (Buffy), some things less so (Dollhouse (although I like Dollhouse, I'm not one who hates it... but it's not as good as Buffy)).
Now I will say it does kind of annoy me as someone who is new to the fandom how much Joss hate there is. Many of you have said that when you were younger and newer to the fandom and Joss, you liked him a lot more but now you've grown tired of him. I'd like that same chance. Sometimes I get really defensive of Joss because I'm new to the fandom and I haven't had a chance to get tired of things like his ego or his destruction of romantic relationships or his ADD attitude towards his work. My first Whedon-work was Dr. Horrible and I watched it in June 2010. A couple weeks later, I watched Buffy. It's not even been a year for me. So I do worship him more than someone who's been here a while... Just because it's still new to me. I don't think he's flawless or Jesus or whatever... and I do think some things he does are going to be better than others... But he is a man in pop culture I respect. He is also someone I'm a new fan of, and therefore, rather enthusiastic.
X
xfivebyfive
I've only been a whedon fan since 2008 and I hate Joss.
Skanky Vamp
Sniffin' the Slayer
- Joined
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I dont think it helps his credibility either when his quasi-autobiography actually calls him "genius" in the title.
I don't think anyone is really disputing that the man has been successful. But more that he is not the Super Jesus icon that some people portray him as.
All of his work has not been of Grade A quality, in fact he has had some stinkers.
There's room for both points of view on the board 😉 🙂
Goby
Brb, shipping Snoyce
No, I'm not implying anything regarding music. That was a generalization, not directed to you.
BTW, I disagree with you, but I love your spunk. Your "Sorry if my dislike for Joss offends but its not going anywhere 😉" comment made me smile.
🙂 (see... I just smiled)
Ah sorry if I jumped to conclusions. I had just woken up with a migraine, so I may have decided to read into it more than was necessary 😉
And I'm glad we finished our foray into the life and times of Joss Whedon amicably and with a smile 🙂
Goby
Disagreements that end in smiles are nice!!!
zobothehobo
Scooby
Miss Kitty
Potential
I really love Joss' work in BtVS/Ats, but there's some things that I didn't like :
-The treatment of Cordelia's character in season 4.
-The lack of reaction of the Angel Team at Cordelia's death, while she had been their *friend* during years. And even Angel, we didn't see a lot of reaction or evocation, whereas she was the woman he loved...
-The fanservice in Chosen. Angel/Buffy/Spike never been a love triangle in the show, I don't buy the Bangel part which just seemed out of context and there for pleased a smaller part of the fandom.
-Lilah's death. Plus, her relationship with Wesley was really interesting and I was curious to see more...
-The treatment of Cordelia's character in season 4.
-The lack of reaction of the Angel Team at Cordelia's death, while she had been their *friend* during years. And even Angel, we didn't see a lot of reaction or evocation, whereas she was the woman he loved...
-The fanservice in Chosen. Angel/Buffy/Spike never been a love triangle in the show, I don't buy the Bangel part which just seemed out of context and there for pleased a smaller part of the fandom.
-Lilah's death. Plus, her relationship with Wesley was really interesting and I was curious to see more...
P
prophecygrrl
Completely agreed!!
Abby27
Potential
I can't stand that no one ever seems to find happiness in a romantic relationship for too long.
Also, I am G/J shipper so I was never more upset with Mr. Whedon than when he killed of Jenny. So sad. 🙁
Also, I am G/J shipper so I was never more upset with Mr. Whedon than when he killed of Jenny. So sad. 🙁
The Scourge
Scooby
- Joined
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The maddest I've ever been at him was in Angel season 5, where he tries to make the show more like Buffy. The atmosphere was lighter and the writing was sub-par, plus some of the dialogue felt like it belonged on Buffy/Firefly more than Angel. Angel made so many witty remarks this season that it seemed like Joss was writing for Malcolm Reynolds instead.
Tome
Lmao! Stop making me rep you ahhh! :p
MissEH
Colonial Fleet
Dawn, Riley, Connor. Ugh.
Killing Tara. How could you do it Joss!
Spike and Buffy in general. The house falling down around them?
Cordelia's storyline.
At least he had Faith in a coma so she could return and didn't kill her off, redeeming qualities right there, for me.
Killing Tara. How could you do it Joss!
Spike and Buffy in general. The house falling down around them?
Cordelia's storyline.
At least he had Faith in a coma so she could return and didn't kill her off, redeeming qualities right there, for me.
You know the maddest I've been at him I think is actually how he (and the rest of his crew) made Buffy look on Ats. I guess with the exception of IWRY she never appeared to be a very sympathetic character when shown or just spoken of on there and I can certainly understand why SMG would have hesitated to return after the way they treated her character in 'Sanctuary'.
S
sisterofmercy
I completely agree, even in IWRY Buffy was portrayed as a bitch without due reason
brinkster130
so true.
caitaintdead
caiters gonna cait
I think the angriest I have ever been at Joss would have to be the Season 8 comics. I really felt like so much more could have been explored with them. People say Joss can change the way media is made but he just didn't with the comics. There was no heart, no feeling. Maybe I would have preferred to see the immediate aftermath? I don't know, I'm not a writer, all I know is that I'm not impressed.
The other thing that irritates me no end is the destroying of Cordelia Chase as a punishment for Charisma Carpenter falling pregnant and neglecting to tell him when he deemed appropriate. Honestly, the more I hear about the way things unfolded with this situation the more I kind of want to get all feminist on his arse and kick it.
I guess in a way the Cordelia thing makes me angrier because it just seemed so intentional and personal and completely not on. She was such a wonderful character and just because Joss had a personal grudge it shouldn't mean he should try and make her unlikeable. I can't image him doing that with one of his 'favourites' like Eliza Dushku.
After meeting Charisma and seeing first hand how amazing she is - hysterically funny, bitingly sarcastic, incredibly talented, and stunningly beautiful I can't help but feel that Joss was intimidated by her as it is the only reason I can think of that would cause him to dislike her.
/end rant.
The other thing that irritates me no end is the destroying of Cordelia Chase as a punishment for Charisma Carpenter falling pregnant and neglecting to tell him when he deemed appropriate. Honestly, the more I hear about the way things unfolded with this situation the more I kind of want to get all feminist on his arse and kick it.
I guess in a way the Cordelia thing makes me angrier because it just seemed so intentional and personal and completely not on. She was such a wonderful character and just because Joss had a personal grudge it shouldn't mean he should try and make her unlikeable. I can't image him doing that with one of his 'favourites' like Eliza Dushku.
After meeting Charisma and seeing first hand how amazing she is - hysterically funny, bitingly sarcastic, incredibly talented, and stunningly beautiful I can't help but feel that Joss was intimidated by her as it is the only reason I can think of that would cause him to dislike her.
/end rant.
Willow-Tree
Your Childhood Trauma
I'm very much with Flannen on the issue of Joss Whedon. Obviously, I love most aspects of his creative psyche or I wouldn't be here. That said, his work ethic and general personality don't fare well with me all that smoothly.
Plot aspects aside, (and I know this is a common reply in this thread but it needs to be said because it's true), what he did to Charisma Carpenter (not even Cordelia, the actress that plays her) was absolutely atrocious, and would cause me to never work with the man again. Cordelia Chase was a character with, arguably, one of the best and most developed character growth. While she had success on Angel, Joss basically ripped her away from Buffy and placed her in a whole different show, which Charisma was wary of, as stated in interviews. When he impregnated the character he also assassinated her, and she didn't deserve that.
Perhaps Charisma should have informed the staff that she was pregnant, Joss definitely overreacted and honestly had no place to. It was Charisma's choice, not Joss's, and for her to be basically reprimanded for it was both immature and detracted from his character. Even recently she issued her thoguhts at a panel convention, and it's available on Youtube for anyone interested on what she has to say.
Other things that ruined him for me were his plot over character mentality. If he needed ratings, killing off a character was no problem for him. And his mask of saying that the character needed to grow, and that's why he/she needed to go, quickly wore off after Joyce's death.
Plot aspects aside, (and I know this is a common reply in this thread but it needs to be said because it's true), what he did to Charisma Carpenter (not even Cordelia, the actress that plays her) was absolutely atrocious, and would cause me to never work with the man again. Cordelia Chase was a character with, arguably, one of the best and most developed character growth. While she had success on Angel, Joss basically ripped her away from Buffy and placed her in a whole different show, which Charisma was wary of, as stated in interviews. When he impregnated the character he also assassinated her, and she didn't deserve that.
Perhaps Charisma should have informed the staff that she was pregnant, Joss definitely overreacted and honestly had no place to. It was Charisma's choice, not Joss's, and for her to be basically reprimanded for it was both immature and detracted from his character. Even recently she issued her thoguhts at a panel convention, and it's available on Youtube for anyone interested on what she has to say.
Other things that ruined him for me were his plot over character mentality. If he needed ratings, killing off a character was no problem for him. And his mask of saying that the character needed to grow, and that's why he/she needed to go, quickly wore off after Joyce's death.