The maddest you've ever been at Joss Whedon

[Skanky Vamp]

Joss definitely overreacted and honestly had no place to. It was Charisma's choice, not Joss's, and for her to be basically reprimanded for it was both immature and detracted from his character. Even recently she issued her thoguhts at a panel convention, and it's available on Youtube for anyone interested on what she has to say.

Can someone elaborate? This is the second time in this thread that I have heard that. My understanding of the story was she got knocked up and the writers just had to find a way to make it work. Was there more to it than that?

 

[Kean]

Can someone elaborate? This is the second time in this thread that I have heard that. My understanding of the story was she got knocked up and the writers just had to find a way to make it work. Was there more to it than that?

The basic story was that he had major plans for Cordy during that season and CC getting pregnant made it nigh impossible to do what he wanted, especially because CC left it very late in the game to tell the creative team that she was expecting. Joss was pissed as Hell at her and hastily threw S4 as we know it together. Some of the interviews CC has given has suggested that the treatment of Cordy's character was maybe a spiteful reaction from Whedon, and certainly her not being brought back was a direct reaction to her pregnancy.

On the other side, CC had a miscarriage the year before (remember when she just disappeared with Gru and Connor was kidnapped?) and did not want to mention her second pregnancy until she knew everything was OK.

 

[Skanky Vamp]

suggested that the treatment of Cordy's character was maybe a spiteful reaction from Whedon,

I never thought of that

certainly her not being brought back was a direct reaction to her pregnancy.

I just thought she was wanting to be all motherly and take time off for rugrat. Interesting though. Was this known at the time? I mean were the chatty rooms talking about it as it was airing?

Thats another reason why I am glad I was not here when the show was airing.. it really would have changed alot.

 

[Kean]

Was this known at the time? I mean were the chatty rooms talking about it as it was airing?

That, I cannot answer. I wasn't online when it was happening. There's a few members here who were part of other communities at the time, maybe they can shed some light on it.

 

[nightshade]

From what I remember Charisma not being in season 5 was a big talking point.

 

[Selfless705]

Umm with the Charisma thing, I saw a talk she did which kind of cleared it up, I will post it here, its from about 5.00 minutes onwards that she explains why the whole Conor/Cordy thing happened, then why she thinks Cordy ended up the way she did.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_igTbXKPck"]YouTube - Felicia Day, Kristy Swanson, Julie Benz, Charisma Carpenter DragonCon 2009 Friday 5[/ame]

Ofc, this i one side of the story, but yeah 😀

Btw, the whole Cordy/Connor relationship is what I was most mad about at Joss 😛

 

[TheFirstSlayer]

The casting of Michelle Trachtenburg. I really do think I would have sympathised with Dawn a lot more if it hadn't been for Michelle to be honest!
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[MandaMeena]

Connor. I never liked his character. Ever. No. Just, no. My dislike for him is greater than my dislike of Dawn for crying out loud! That's pretty bad.

 

[VisionGirl]

I never thought of that
I just thought she was wanting to be all motherly and take time off for rugrat. Interesting though. Was this known at the time? I mean were the chatty rooms talking about it as it was airing?

Thats another reason why I am glad I was not here when the show was airing.. it really would have changed alot.

I thought I read that she would have liked to have been in part of season 5, but didn't want to be in every episode so that she could have more time with her baby (kind of like Anthony Head in Buffy seasons 6 & 7).

I loved that video, thanks for posting it Selfless705! I do like what she said about "you've gotta live your life". Women get pregnant, people get sick, etc etc, that's life! Hollywood has had to deal with it for a long time. Joss could've found a more creative way to deal with it. I really sympathized with how she said she found out about not coming back in season 5.

I really do like what she said about You're Welcome & how she loved the plot after she heard the whole thing.

---------- Post added at 07:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:30 PM ----------

OK, I'm going to be honest about something & this is extremely petty! I don't hate Connor or Vincent really, but even though I think he's a good actor, I don't think he's that attractive. And a child of Angel & Darla should've been incredibly beautiful IMO. That was really my first reaction to him, although it's gotten a bit better as I've rewatched.

 

[Kean]

OK, I'm going to be honest about something & this is extremely petty! I don't hate Connor or Vincent really, but even though I think he's a good actor, I don't think he's that attractive. And a child of Angel & Darla should've been incredibly beautiful IMO. That was really my first reaction to him, although it's gotten a bit better as I've rewatched.

It's not that I don't think he is attractive (which I don't. At all.) but he just doesn't bear any resemblence to DB or JB at all. Not in stature or colouring or anything. That always bugged the Hell out of me.

If I'm reading a fic that Connor is in I'll always picture him like James Lafferty (Nathan from OTH) because that is what Angel's kid looks like in my head 🙂p) and I will instantly like Connor infinitely more.

/shallow

LOOK AT THE SCOWL! 😛

 

[Willow My Love]

Plan and simple? When he killed off Tara. Especially because he put Amber in the opening credits. I remember watching that on TV and being like, "It's about damn time!" Then she gets killed in the dumbest, most senseless death on BTVS. I wanted to hurt him for that. I cried.

 

[elloraborealis]

The casting of Michelle Trachtenburg. I really do think I would have sympathised with Dawn a lot more if it hadn't been for Michelle to be honest!
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I agree! I can't seem to decide whether or not Dawn was supposed to be a sympathetic character. I was never NOT annoyed with her. I wonder if it was Trachtenburg's take on the character that made her more irritating than lovable... or maybe Joss intended for her to be a whiny little klepto. That's harsh, I know -- She did have it hard...being the key and all, and constantly living in the shadow of her sister.

 

[TheFirstSlayer]

Yea,she really did have it tough. I'm sure findà¬ng out at 16 that your're not actually real must have been awful. It was definately her take on it that really annoyed me 'get out,get out,get out'!
In season 7, Dawns character was perfectly fine(well apart from telling Buffy to get out of her own house actually,that was riduclous!),but generally she was so much better than Season 5 and 6. Despite that, I still didn't like Dawn because I just don't like Michelle's interpretation of her!
Posted via Mobile Device

 

[caitaintdead]

I completely agree, the casting of Michelle was a huge mistake. Michelle is a talented actress and I love her in Season 7, and think she's excellent in Gossip Girl, but her trying to play a child when she was towering over SMG was embarrassing to watch at times. I wish they had rewritten the character.

 

[nightshade]

I completely agree, the casting of Michelle was a huge mistake. Michelle is a talented actress and I love her in Season 7, and think she's excellent in Gossip Girl, but her trying to play a child when she was towering over SMG was embarrassing to watch at times. I wish they had rewritten the character.

I think I read somewhere that Dawn was supposed to be younger, around 10 I think, but Joss liked Michelle and cast her instead of someone younger. Making Dawn older, but not changing the storylines to match her age

 

[sosa lola]

Nothing is worse than what he had done to Cordelia in late S3 and S4. As well as Angel in S8. The Cordelia thing annoys me more because it feels like he's punishing CC for getting pregnant.

I also dislike pushing Xander to the background because fans were outraged about The Lie. Joss could have simply dealt with The Lie in S3, and the whole thing would be over. Xander as nothing but comic relief made the show worse. He was much better as a serious character in S1/S2/first half of S3 than the joke he became later. There were also so many things they could have done with his character: make him face the consequences of his glossed over actions (The Lie and summoning Sweet), deal with his feelings over losing Jesse, show him as the damsel more, explore his relationship with Anya realistically and make them in the center instead of a background comic relief ship, explore the gender reversal of a female rapist (Faith) and male rape victim (Xander), which would have been really really really interesting!

Last but not least, how Xander/Dawn was written!!! They pushed all the important issues to the background and now Xander and Dawn live happily together with everything interesting about them glossed over and dealt with off panel.

Sigh. Another bitter Xander post from me. I thought I learned my lesson.

I completely agree, the casting of Michelle was a huge mistake. Michelle is a talented actress and I love her in Season 7, and think she's excellent in Gossip Girl, but her trying to play a child when she was towering over SMG was embarrassing to watch at times. I wish they had rewritten the character.

I agree. It wasn't MT's fault that the writers wrote Dawn as a 10 year old child. They could have either cast a 10 year old to play Dawn or wrote Dawn as an actual 14 year old.

 

[OhWow]

I was mad with Joss mostly about Angel. I mean he had to find out just who my absolute favorite character were and then kill them. Really Joss? First off Doyle. I get that he was trying to "say" something by killing a character off so fast but he was so awesome. Second Fred. She was a great character and I really felt like she belonged in the final fight. And then replacing her with Illyra really bothered me. It was kinda creepy and it just pissed me off ( No offense to ppl who like Illyra, just wasn't cool with me ). And Cordy. She was what kept me sane while watching the show. I was like when the hell is Cordy gunna wake up!! Then she wakes up and dies. Booo Joss! And the overall ending of Angel was pretty disappointing..like a cliffhanger really?

 

[Chosen Enemy]

I think I read somewhere that Dawn was supposed to be younger, around 10 I think, but Joss liked Michelle and cast her instead of someone younger. Making Dawn older, but not changing the storylines to match her age

Sarah recommended on her to Joss. So I'd say that's her fault. I like to believe that if it wasn't for Sarah, Michelle wouldn't have been casted as Dawn at all, and they would have kept the younger sister younger as she was originally written.

 

[VisionGirl]

Sarah recommended on her to Joss. So I'd say that's her fault. I like to believe that if it wasn't for Sarah, Michelle wouldn't have been casted as Dawn at all, and they would have kept the younger sister younger as she was originally written.

I don't mind Michelle at all, I think she & Sarah work well together. They're believable to me as sisters. I do wish that Joss had modified the character/dialogue/storyline then to match her age better.

 

[Tammy]

I will always love Joss....but here are 10 reasons why sometimes he upsets me:

1. Angel and Cordy - The hole idea disgusts me!
2. Jasmine - Ridiculous
3. EVE - Enough Said
4. season 4 - The butchering of cordy's character
5. Cordy and Connor - Slight Incest
6. Dawn pre season 7 - The stupid things she says sometimes and the whining
7. Conner pre season 5 - He really annoyed me
8. Slightly too many comas - In Buffy & Angel
9. Kennedy and Willow - Didn't like Kennedy at all
10. Making all the potentials real slayers - Wrong move

Sorry if i upset anyone...