The original scene from Empty Places

Buffy's my favourite character in the series, but she acted ridiculously in regards to Spike and the trigger. She had made no effort since 'Never Leave Me' to find out anything about the trigger and anytime anyone wanted to bring up the reality of the situation she became very dodgy and snappy towards them. In 'First Date' it's revealed the First has plans for Spike and she still refuses to let Spike leave town, not because of the mission but because, "(shes) not ready for him to not be here." She put her feelings above "the mission" contradicting her own mantra "the mission is what matters" and putting the lives of everyone she cared about at serious risk.

While I dont really have anything to add on the subject as I think ive made my point a gazillion times 😛 ...im just letting you know im using this in another thread cause you make a very interesting point!

What is it you don't like about the Buffy character? - Page 2 - Buffy-Boards
 
To me the important point about what Buffy wanted to do in this episode is that she was correct. Caleb and the First were protecting something important at the vineyard. Just like she was right about Spike.

Yes she makes mistakes but if you look back at military history even the best Generals made mistakes but were able to turn their mistakes into victories (Patton and Montgomery springs to mind).

I can understand the potentials doubting her but her friends have seen her turn her mistakes into eventual victories time and time again. They were all far too harsh just as they were in Dead Man's Party.

Also note even when Buffy proved that she was right all along she did not make a big thing about it. That says a lot of good things about her.
 
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To me the important point about what Buffy wanted to do in this episode is that she was correct. Caleb and the First were protecting something important at the vineyard. Just like she was right about Spike.

Buffy was not completely correct. She wasn't correct when she went into the vineyard in 'Dirty Girls' and walked right into Caleb's trap, and she wasn't correct in wanting to go back down to the vineyard all over again and nothing more than a hunch. She lacked information which is what got them into trouble in 'Dirty Girls.' When you're responsible for the lives of many people you don't just put those lives at risk on nothing more than an inkling.

The only reason Buffy succeeded in getting to that vineyard was luck. The majority of the Bringers were busy attacking Faith and the potentials down in the sewers. If Buffy had gotten her way she would have marched into that vineyard exactly like she did in ‘Dirty Girls’ and more girls would have died. It would have been an almost exact replica of what had occurred only days earlier, the reason people didn’t even want to go back into there until they had more proof.

Notice that even Faith learnt her lesson from that encounter. Before going into that vineyard she states “drop me in the hornets nest what the hell” but she learnt her lesson. They paid a price and Buffy was asking too much to expect people to blindly follow her back in there when she had no evidence or proof that she was correct. Lets also take into account Buffy played right into the First’s hands here, as it states in ‘Dirty Girls.’ That “one last push” that would send the house crumbling.

Buffy’s not incapable of making mistakes and being wrong. And as the writers state about that season, a great deal of episodes in season seven were spent on Buffy’s superiority complex and failings as a leader. That’s what helped cause the divide. She wasn’t perfect and no one should blindly follow a leader without question when wether we like it or not, Buffy led them into a death trap only a few days earlier. Against the advice of everyone pleading with her to think things through. Why should they suddenly trust her without question again? She was exhibiting exactly the same kind of behaviour that resulted in people dying only a few days prior to this episode.

As for Spike, without getting into that much again. Nope she wasn't correct. She was correct about him being able to be a good man, she wasn't correct in her complete lack of care concerning his trigger. She wasn't correct in doing nothing about it putting the lives of everyone she cared about in danger. And she wasn't correct in her bullsh#t mantra that "being a good man" would somehow eliminate the First's hold on him, when his actions were completely unrelated to free will of any kind. If no one had intervened concerning Spike the First would have simply triggered him before he could use the amulet. End of story.

Buffy wasn't smart in either instance, she was lucky. And she learnt that in 'End of Days' when she was big enough to say that what happened with Faith could have just as easily happened to her too.
 
WOAH, i got really into this, and usually reading makes me really bored.. thankyou thankyou!! 😀:whistle:
 
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