The Thing You Disliked Most About S6?

[Blaze]

The fact that no one excepts Giles offers Buffy money. It seems so OC for me.
But what REALLY annoys me is the fact that Buffy is suddenly not "depressed" anymore. This scene really makes me pissed off:

BUFFY

Things have sucked lately, but it's
all gonna change - and I want to be
there when it does. I want to see my
friends happy again.
(more emotional)
And I want to see you grow up. The
woman you're going to become...
Because she's going to be beautiful.

Dawn takes this in. Moved.

BUFFY (cont'd)
And she's going to be powerful.
Buffy moves close to Dawn again.

BUFFY (cont'd)
I got it so wrong. I don't want to
protect you from the world - I want
to show it to you.
Both of the girls are near tears now. Buffy touches Dawn's face tenderly.

BUFFY (cont'd)
Oh, Dawn... There's so much I want
to show you.

NO NO NO, I just don't get it. Suddenly she's over the fact that she was ripped out of heaven; and after barely surviving Willow's plan to destroy the world, she wants to live again?!

I think the writer's tried to shove this down our throat, but honestly Buffy in s7 still looks depressed to me, so I don't think they just erased her depression. Or maybe it was just a combination of SMG playing her like that, I don't know.

I actually love this scene though, to me it's not about Buffy suddenly not being depressed, it's about Buffy growing up and realizing what Dawn means to her all over again, and realizing that she can't protect Dawn from the world. I never saw the scene as Buffy saying "Hey, look I'm cured now!". It's more about Buffy looking up to the future because things do get better, even when you still have to deal with depression.

But I agree with you, a lot of s6' problems with the group seemed to be completely ignored by the end of the season. They threw out dealing with the storylines of addiction, depression, AR etc. That is very frustrating.

 

[MarlieTheSlayer]

I think the writer's tried to shove this down our throat, but honestly Buffy in s7 still looks depressed to me, so I don't think they just erased her depression. Or maybe it was just a combination of SMG playing her like that, I don't know.

I actually love this scene though, to me it's not about Buffy suddenly not being depressed, it's about Buffy growing up and realizing what Dawn means to her all over again, and realizing that she can't protect Dawn from the world. I never saw the scene as Buffy saying "Hey, look I'm cured now!". It's more about Buffy looking up to the future because things do get better, even when you still have to deal with depression.

But I agree with you, a lot of s6' problems with the group seemed to be completely ignored by the end of the season. They threw out dealing with the storylines of addiction, depression, AR etc. That is very frustrating.

Great observation. I think you're right.

 

[WillowTaraHolic]

I'm jumping into this with only reading a few paragraphs about the main topic of discussion, so I'll probably sound pretty stupid. 😛

Yeah, I feel like they sorta erased the depression for the second half of season 6 and on, maybe mainly to make way for the Buffy/Spike stuff? I'm not exactly sure why. And then all through season 7, it's pretty much ignored. (All that's left is the scenes between Buffy and Spike, which are scattered too frequently throughout the season, in my opinion. The season was mostly about Buffy and Spike, and it seemed like all the other characters were just... there.) Then the only two episodes that even really ACKNOWLEDGED the death of Tara were 'Conversations with Dead People' and 'The Killer in Me'. And, again, they were pretty half-hearted scenes that really didn't sum up much for the season. (Again, 'The Killer in Me' was a pretty much a throw-away episode, though it was one of my favorites in the season)

Willow's addiction was barely ever referenced to, plus there wasn't much going on between Anya and Xander, considering that Xander had just RUN AWAY from his own wedding. And then what happened to Giles? Where's the amazing tweed shy guy that we all know and love? Every time I watch an episode of season 7, I have to watch an episode for seasons 1 or 2 to forget what happened to poor Giles.

If you ask me, I think the writers jumped in a little too far because they apparently couldn't really keep up with the plots that they left completely open. But of course, that's my opinion of season 7.

(Okay, I sorta rambled through that, but hey! At least I opened more topics of discussion! Well, sort of.)

 

[gilesb]

Spike trying to rape Buffy.
And Warren.

 

[Halfrek]

I've tried rewatching season 6 so many times because I really DO want to like it, but I just don't. It was just such an effort getting through it, there was nothing positive going on, the whole season had this negative feel to it and any fun or humour they injected into it just felt forced.

My main problem is the trio. I actually didn't mind some of their scenes, they were funny and geeky and not completely unlikeable. But considering Buffy and the Scoobies have stopped apocalypses, an ascension and a hell God...I find it a big push to believe that they took as long as they did to stop 3 humans who weren't that much of a threat. They just seemed like a diversion for the whole season until the big dark Willow finale. They weren't needed and just appeared to be shoehorned into the season for comical effect considering how depressing the season was...only they were supposed to be big bads but stupidly funny? The Major had funny and dangerous down to a T..but the trio just seemed a bit of a big joke to me.

My other major issue is how Spike was treated as a character. Thankfully Spike is one of those characters who can get away with being shoved into any role and you still love him and it somehow manages to work, but I HATED how poorly he was treated. I know he's a vampire but he does actually help the Scoobies and has put his life on the line many times to protect Dawn..so why can't any of them cut him some slack? I like Spike and I constantly felt bad for him when Buffy was kicking him about and beating him up, using him. Then he began using her and attempted to rape her, so I ended up hating him. I didn't like hating two characters I actually really love. The whole thing was one massive soap opera. Other seasons managed to tackle growing up, relationships going wrong, death etc and still have plenty of laughs and positive moments - because that's what life is. I could have dealt with the really depressing themes in season 6 had every other episode had something funny or lighthearted in it..but the whole thing was miserable from beginning to end and a real emotional drain to watch. It had some really deep well written tear jerker episodes in it's credit...just not much of anything else :/

 

[thetopher]

I've tried rewatching season 6 so many times because I really DO want to like it, but I just don't. It was just such an effort getting through it, there was nothing positive going on, the whole season had this negative feel to it and any fun or humour they injected into it just felt forced.

Yeah, Buffy always had a way of using the humour to relieve the 'pressure value' on the tension and angst tduring a season. When we had Angelus running amok or Joyce being really sick there were always moments of lightness to puctuate the somber mood. It kept the viewer from being overwhelmed.
This was done by skillful writing but I do think in S6 that lightness is lacking for whole chunks of episodes- it just makes the season overall feel like a drag.

My main problem is the trio. I actually didn't mind some of their scenes, they were funny and geeky and not completely unlikeable. But considering Buffy and the Scoobies have stopped apocalypses, an ascension and a hell God...I find it a big push to believe that they took as long as they did to stop 3 humans who weren't that much of a threat.

The Trio always seemed to me to be a bad guy that the Scoobies would've dealt with in about a episode during the highschool years- like the creepy nerds from 'Some Assembly Required' or the frat house from 'Reptile Boy' or the guy from 'The Prom'.
Buffy on top form would dealt with them no problem.
They never seemed that smart, or cunning or even that resourceful. Their best episode was 'Life Serial' when they were 'testing' Buffy and finding out her weaknesses (yeah, where did that go?). It's just that their utter lameness caught the gang off-guard. They had no master plan, or clever scheme or doomsday plot so were therefore really unpredictable.

 

[The Bronze]

It's been a while since I watch Season 6 but I think the slowness might have been an issue of not knowing a solution. They had no real plan to stop so short of just killing them I'm not sure what options were on the table.

 

[bespangeled]

You mean how there's a difference in her using him to him using her?

Cuz I dont think it makes a difference of their sex, but the circumstances make it different.

Spike took the opportunity to use Buffy when she returned from heaven and wasn't feeling connected to the world, she told him that secret and instead of caring for her in that vulnerable state, he didn't mind using her for sex.

Spike was never in a vulnerable state, he had no soul, thats not a state it's his character, it's who he is. If she'd slept with him when he suggested it in Beneath You, that would have been using him, because he was feeling bad, wanted forgiveness and was mentally in a place were he was very confused.

Spike also maneuvered Buffy further into her vulnerability, by always agreeing with her and separating her from her friends, combine that with his prior 2 years of stalking and what he did was a lot worse then what she did.

I'm still saying she was wrong, but I think if you were to compare to two side by side, theres no comparison, but there is when people want to use it as an excuse to cancel Spikes action out.

If Spike were human I would agree with that, but he's an unsoulled demon. His only romantic/sexual relationship ever was with Drusilla. He's trying to take care of her, and sex is part of that. Yes, he wants to pull her away from everything and into the dark with him, again vampire. The thing is that Buffy knew exactly what he was when she unzipped him and impaled herself. In fact, she knew what he was when she sang - this isn't real but I just want to feel. And she hated him - she told him repeatedly that she hated him, that he was dirt, he was a pig, he was everything she despised. It always amazes me that so many fans really prefer to ignore the fact that Buffy is torn up by what she did. As for Buffy getting treated more harshly - not really Parker Abrams gets far more crap from fans for his one night stand then Buffy gets for beating Spike to a pulp in Dead Things.

Yeah, they were both abusive. I agree what you say about Spike, but Buffy was not innocent or uninformed. She made her choices. And yes, she was depressed but that is part of depression - bad choices. In the real world those come back and bite you in the ass. You don't have everyone pampering you and forgiving you - trust me. I've made bad choices, and I've dealt with consequences.

Maybe this is the difference between those who like season 6 and those who don't.

 

[adzpower]

I didn't like how they were supposed to be best friends yet no one tried helping each other, Willow was left to wallow in magic, Buffy was totaly depressed, Xander was petrified of marriage, it just boggles my mind, its like no one was concerned with each other. They all ignored each others problems and were left to implode.

 

[gite63]

I didn't like how they were supposed to be best friends yet no one tried helping each other, Willow was left to wallow in magic, Buffy was totaly depressed, Xander was petrified of marriage, it just boggles my mind, its like no one was concerned with each other. They all ignored each others problems and were left to implode.

It seems to me that the Scoobies' behavior towards Buffy wasn't that different from past seasons.

I 've recently watched Anne again: Buffy was back home after having killed Angel, and they were all annoyed by the way she was acting. Willow even said to her something like "stuff is happening in my life: I'm dating, I'm dealing with magic, LOOK HOW MY LIFE SUCKS TOO!" They didn't know yet that the spell had worked and Angel got his soul back, but anyway...

Same on Season 6: they didn't know that Buffy had been in Heaven, but if she had been in some hell, it would have being very traumatic - and all they thought was how Buffy wasn't grateful enough for being saved by them.

 

[Skanky Vamp]

I 've recently watched Anne again

That wasnt from Anne; it was from Dead Man's Party, and she never really said LOOK HOW MY LIFE SUCKS, just that she was going through all of these changes and no one to share it with.

Buffy said "you wouldnt understand" what she was going thru so she left town. To which Willow replied what she was going through, and the fact Buffy wouldn't understand that either. But Buffy is still there for Willow, yet she gave no opportunity for Willow to be there for her, she fled rather than allowing someone else to help. That is a theme consistent with the Buffy character throughout the series.

 

[gite63]

That wasnt from Anne; it was from Dead Man's Party

Whatever, I'm not good at remembering titles... even my favorite scenes I can remember the epidodes they are from, sometimes...

 

[adzpower]

It seems to me that the Scoobies' behavior towards Buffy wasn't that different from past seasons.

I 've recently watched Anne again: Buffy was back home after having killed Angel, and they were all annoyed by the way she was acting. Willow even said to her something like "stuff is happening in my life: I'm dating, I'm dealing with magic, LOOK HOW MY LIFE SUCKS TOO!" They didn't know yet that the spell had worked and Angel got his soul back, but anyway...

Same on Season 6: they didn't know that Buffy had been in Heaven, but if she had been in some hell, it would have being very traumatic - and all they thought was how Buffy wasn't grateful enough for being saved by them.

I get what you're saying, I recently rewatched the series and the scoobies just didn't seem as close this time around as they were before. I don't know if that now I'm older I can just see it more clearly or maybe I'm reading into things too much.

 

[gite63]

and she never really said LOOK HOW MY LIFE SUCKS, just that she was going through all of these changes and no one to share it with.

I know she didn't say that, that's what I got from the conversation: "let's focus on ME, you killed your boyfriend, whatever, but I have issues to! Do you have cancer or something? No, I have a boyfriend!" 

But Buffy is still there for Willow, yet she gave no opportunity for Willow to be there for her, she fled rather than allowing someone else to help.

She fled, and then she came back. And the things Xander said to her... what a friend!

 

[Skanky Vamp]

I know she didn't say that, that's what I got from the conversation: "let's focus on ME, you killed your boyfriend, whatever, but I have issues to! Do you have cancer or something? No, I have a boyfriend!

That's a radical interpretation of the text. It certainly would paint them in a much different picture.

 

[gite63]

That's a radical interpretation of the text. It certainly would paint them in a much different picture.

As adzpower said, I'm older - and more cynical now...

And it wasn't just about this scene, it's about the whole thing; if the Scoobies had trouble about Buffy dating a vampire, the time to give her a hard time wasn't after she killed him.

 

[Skanky Vamp]

I think some of the reason you think that is not helped by the episode in general. I think if those lines happened in another episode it would not have skewed your perception that way. The fact that Dead Man's Party is a horrible episode in which everyone is acting (in general) out of character doesn't help the dialog. You expect to see Buffyhate in that episode so you take innocuous as being harmful.

 

[gite63]

I think some of the reason you think that is not helped by the episode in general. I think if those lines happened in another episode it would not have skewed your perception that way. The fact that Dead Man's Party is a horrible episode in which everyone is acting (in general) out of character doesn't help the dialog. You expect to see Buffyhate in that episode so you take innocuous as being harmful.

And I realized that in writing that while now I'm older, Willow was a teenager then... and teens tend to be self centered. The only "friend" Buffy had was Angel, after he came back and was feeling better.

But I do believe that Buffy has always been alone when it concerns life issues, I mean, when Joyce got herself a boyfriend (Ted), he threated her daughter and she didn't believe Buffy. After Buffy "killed" Ted, Joyce didn't want to talk to her... a boyfriend she had just met, and she didn't want to know why Buffy attacked him (if memory serves).

 

[Skanky Vamp]

And I realized that in writing that while now I'm older

But also you have the benefit of clairvoyance.. you can see into the future and see how, in season 6 they basically left her alone to deal with her own shi..stuff. And that influences your perception of the scene as well. When you first saw it (I assume) you did not know the events that would subsequently transpire, so it felt like an anomaly versus a pattern.

 

[EVIL UU]

And it wasn't just about this scene, it's about the whole thing; if the Scoobies had trouble about Buffy dating a vampire, the time to give her a hard time wasn't after she killed him.

It's not about Buffy dating a vampire. Scoobies have a problem with Buffy bailing on them, OK? Running away without a word because...I don't know, it's not like Buffy ever bothered to explain why she left to LA to anybody. Anyway, they've been helping her for two years, Angel tried to kill them, not Buffy mind you - them, they have the right to know what happened.

But I do believe that Buffy has always been alone when it concerns life issues

And rightly so. That's what you get for believing that you're better than other people. 

in season 6 they basically left her alone to deal with her own shi..stuff.

Yeah, I mean, the Scoobies should totally solve all of Buffy's problems!