Question UK Referendum to Stay or Leave the EU

[GwenRaiden]

I don't know much about Scottish politics, so do you think if Scotland got another referendum, and they left the UK, would they want to join the EU? Would they meet the criteria and would they want the euro? I know you can't speak for the whole of Scotland, but what do you think?

Sorry, not allowed to answer. Apparently it's:

Time to move on.

 

[Skanky Vamp]

It might very well be time to move on for Scotland now too. Some news outlets are calling it the Divided Kingdom.

 

[The Bronze]

But also I think a lot of people who did vote leave did so because like me they feel the EU is an outdated system and a bit of a mess.

Do you know about campaigns by Republic and the Electoral Reform Society to try to tackle this same issue in our country? I hope if there's a positive to come out of this it'll be that everyone who has complained about the lack of democracy in Europe turns their attention towards our unelected Head of State, unelected House of Lords and unrepresentative and perhaps fraudulently elected House of Commons.

 

[Buffy Summers]

I know this is a heated topic, but let's keep this friendly.

 

[GwenRaiden]

Priceless: Shows how little I know, I just assumed if Scots wanted independence they must also want the SNP

The Scottish Greens also want a second referendum, as do many grassroot parties. I prefer the Greens to SNP, I wouldn't want the Scottish Nationalist Party as a majority in the long run if we gained independence, there are lots of policies of theirs I furiously disagree with. So no, I don't want the SNP. I want my country to be independent is all.

 

[Bluebird]

I feel this is the best for Scotland to gain its long time coming independence. Every promise from Vote No has proven to be false and not come to pass. We were told voting no would secure our position in the EU, whereas being independent was putting Scotland's position in the EU in jeopardy. So silly little Scotland gets the fear put into it by London telling them they'll be out of the UK AND the EU, so they do what they're told and vote no, only to get the EU referendum, where the VAST MAJORITY of Scots desperately vote to remain, only for it to make zero difference as usual. How is this logical or fair?

 

[Fenrir]

Yeah, 55% of Scotland voted to stay in the UK. A lot voted because they were promised that their votes would now count for something. Wrong. As seen last night.
🙄

I don't understand. What were they expecting, a veto?

It might very well be time to move on for Scotland now too. Some news outlets are calling it the Divided Kingdom.

Newspapers being sensationalist? Colour me shocked.

So silly little Scotland gets the fear put into it by London telling them they'll be out of the UK AND the EU, so they do what they're told and vote no, only to get the EU referendum, where the VAST MAJORITY of Scots desperately vote to remain, only for it to make zero difference as usual. How is this logical or fair?

I wouldn't say 62% is the vast majority. That's only 7% more than voted to stay in the UK.

 

[The Bronze]

In a disgusting display of opportunism and focusing on entirely the wrong enemy two Labour MP's have tabled a vote of no confidence in Jeremy Corbyn. They make me sick.

MPs submit Corbyn no confidence motion - BBC News

 

[Priceless]

I feel this is the best for Scotland to gain its long time coming independence. Every promise from Vote No has proven to be false and not come to pass. We were told voting no would secure our position in the EU, whereas being independent was putting Scotland's position in the EU in jeopardy. So silly little Scotland gets the fear put into it by London telling them they'll be out of the UK AND the EU, so they do what they're told and vote no, only to get the EU referendum, where the VAST MAJORITY of Scots desperately vote to remain, only for it to make zero difference as usual. How is this logical or fair?

The politics of fear. It has been the same in the EU ref. It seems the Scots were more worried about the uncertainty post a leave UK vote than the English/Welsh were about the uncertainty after a post leave EU vote.

I think the UK will do ok outside the EU and that will give Scotland ,and other nations, the confidence they may have previously lacked.

 

[Bluebird]

I wouldn't say 62% is the vast majority. That's only 7% more than voted to stay in the UK.

My point still stands. The UK's 'better together' argument is built on broken promises and since Scotland's population is so small in comparison to the rest, who cares about beyond the wall.

We're better together, just not with the rest of Europe apparently. I feel really bad for the no voters now. They were told they'd get more powers, security, a stable currency and economy, if they stayed with the UK. At least I knew we were screwed when the no vote came in. The backtracking and turnaround on the empty promises is par for the course, especially if you have no real democratic power.

 

[GwenRaiden]

who cares about beyond the wall

Jon Snow does!


My watch has ended. 🙁

 

[Bluebird]

What bothers me about this is it all comes back to the independence referendum for me. To argue with people about what's best for Scotland when they don't know what it's like to grow up in Scotland, is infuriating at times. As much as it's seen as just Northern Britain, it is very different from the rest of the UK. We have separate laws, a different court system, our exam boards and schools are about as different as you could get (no tuition fees) and the reason why our countries have these differences is because we are different, politically. But that isn't seen or spoke about outside of Scotland much.

So aye, we have all the differences of an independent country but none of the power. Ugh Scotland, you are so lame.

 

[Taake]

Just a question: aren't referendums just advisory? I know that they are here. Not that they will be ignored or anything, but they're not legally binding, and it still has to go through Parliment no? Who can choose how much they want to take the people's voice into account. Basically, this referendum doesn't really mean your out, it just points parliament in that direction/process. (I'm not saying that they won't listen to the leave side)

 

[Mr Trick]

Sorry, not allowed to answer. Apparently it's:

That's not what I meant and you know it. I meant that Scottish people pushing for another vote on their part of the UK after only TWO YEARS! need to accept the way things are. You can still discuss it on here, but outside of this thread I think you should just accept the way things are. If Scotland want another vote on it in ten years time, then fine because enough time has passed. But you can't do it just becuase you have a different leader who is pro-leaving the UK.

My point still stands. The UK's 'better together' argument is built on broken promises and since Scotland's population is so small in comparison to the rest, who cares about beyond the wall.

We're better together, just not with the rest of Europe apparently. I feel really bad for the no voters now. They were told they'd get more powers, security, a stable currency and economy, if they stayed with the UK. At least I knew we were screwed when the no vote came in. The backtracking and turnaround on the empty promises is par for the course, especially if you have no real democratic power.

But Scottish people who voted to stay in the UK two years ago knew that this might happen. And lets face it, its only just happened, we don't know yet whether it will prove a good or a bad thing long term. My prediction is that not much will change either way which is why it was a tough vote. But if it turns out that we're actually a bit better off out of the EU then I'm sure those who voted to stay in the UK won't be moaning too much.

Do you know about campaigns by Republic and the Electoral Reform Society to try to tackle this same issue in our country? I hope if there's a positive to come out of this it'll be that everyone who has complained about the lack of democracy in Europe turns their attention towards our unelected Head of State, unelected House of Lords and unrepresentative and perhaps fraudulently elected House of Commons.

Yes I do know about those campaigns, and again it highlights what a complex and messing issue this is. You won't get any arguments with that from me.

 

[Priceless]

Just a question: aren't referendums just advisory? I know that they are here. Not that they will be ignored or anything, but they're not legally binding, and it still has to go through Parliment no? Who can choose how much they want to take the people's voice into account. Basically, this referendum doesn't really mean your out, it just points parliament in that direction/process. (I'm not saying that they won't listen to the leave side)

You are right, but can you imagine the fall out if the peoples decison is ignored by the government? That's what leads to riots in the street 🙂 You can't call yourself a democracy and overturn the will of the majority. Cameron has already resigned, so the results seem to have been accepted

 

[Mr Trick]

Just a question: aren't referendums just advisory? I know that they are here. Not that they will be ignored or anything, but they're not legally binding, and it still has to go through Parliment no? Who can choose how much they want to take the people's voice into account. Basically, this referendum doesn't really mean your out, it just points parliament in that direction/process. (I'm not saying that they won't listen to the leave side)

Not sure to be honest. Even if that is the case I still think you need a certain amount of distance and time before setting another one.

 

[GwenRaiden]

You can still discuss it on here

Oh thanks!

but outside of this thread I think you should just accept the way things are.

No thanks.

You voted to leave, so that's all very easy for you to say, isn't it. I think you should just accept that Scotland has every right to lay ground for another referendum - if the SNP wants to push for that when they feel their EU membership has been taken from them against their will. I mean if you're in the business of telling me what to do then right back at you. Ugh.

 

[Athena]

Please be nice to each other folks. It's going to be difficult for everyone to accept the way things are. People are within their right to disagree with decisions. As far as Scottish politics goes, I can't comment. I'm not Scottish, I don't live in Scotland, but if the Scottish people want another referendum, a referendum will probably happen.

But let's be nice to each other on here at least. It's bad enough with everything going on in the real world without it kicking off here too.

 

[Mr Trick]

Oh thanks!



No thanks.

You voted to leave, so that's all very easy for you to say, isn't it. I think you should just accept that Scotland has every right to lay ground for another referendum - if the SNP wants to push for that when they feel their EU membership has been taken from them against their will. I mean if you're in the business of telling me what to do then right back at you. Ugh.

Me voting to leave has nothing to do with this. I would be saying the same thing even if I voted to remain, because I respect that when you have a vote and get the result than you except the decision and don't ask for another vote just because it suits your political situation and because certain people have had a change of heart. Its like the last election. I didn't want a Tory, and so I did my bit by voting for a different party. That's all I can do, but the majority of people voted them in, and the reality is that we have them for a five year spell and you just have except that.

 

[The Bronze]

Just a question: aren't referendums just advisory? I know that they are here. Not that they will be ignored or anything, but they're not legally binding, and it still has to go through Parliment no? Who can choose how much they want to take the people's voice into account. Basically, this referendum doesn't really mean your out, it just points parliament in that direction/process. (I'm not saying that they won't listen to the leave side)

You're right that they are advisory but there's no way this can just be ignored. Parliament will now have to trigger Article 50 with the EU and then the planning for leaving will begin.

Of course the problem with Vote Leave has always been that there's no plan or guarantee's in place. When negotiating the exit our government might strike up a new trade deal and keep free movement of people which has angered so many. Any money that we're supposedly saving from going it alone hasn't been marked for anything so if there is any it's entirely possible it'll end up with the usual suspects of Banks and Conservative backers.

But Scottish people who voted to stay in the UK two years ago knew that this might happen.

They were told that voting for independence would put their EU status in jeopardy. Now that ship has sailed they have every right to ask the question again.