Reptile Boy:
Were there good moments? Yeah, but I can't even think of them, and they're a lot less interesting to think about than the reasons why this episode didn't work because, face it, it doesn't really work in any sense.
Huh. I didn't even know there was commentary to this episode. King of a weird pick.
Obviously, I haven't seen the commentary, so I didn't know the metaphor was "drinking is bad". If that was what they were shooting for, yeah, they failed pretty badly. Hell, if that was what it was intended to be, I totally misinterpreted it. I thought it was more along the lines of being careful in situations you can't really control. I felt like Buffy taking a drink from some idiot she doesn't know and it turning out to be drugged was a pretty powerful metaphor. Not subtle, granted, but not insulting and very truthful at the same time. So in that sense, my own kind of take on it, I like it. But if that isn't what they were aiming at then yeah...weird.
Huh. I didn't even know there was commentary to this episode. King of a weird pick.
Obviously, I haven't seen the commentary, so I didn't know the metaphor was "drinking is bad". If that was what they were shooting for, yeah, they failed pretty badly. Hell, if that was what it was intended to be, I totally misinterpreted it. I thought it was more along the lines of being careful in situations you can't really control. I felt like Buffy taking a drink from some idiot she doesn't know and it turning out to be drugged was a pretty powerful metaphor. Not subtle, granted, but not insulting and very truthful at the same time. So in that sense, my own kind of take on it, I like it. But if that isn't what they were aiming at then yeah...weird.
He never flat out states it, but he does talk about how Giles and Buffy at the end was pretty much summing up the moral of the episode, and that conversation comes down to basically "I had one drink and was almost sacrificed to a giant snake" (I can't remember the quote, it was something like that) and Giles comments that "Saying let that be a lesson to you would be an understatement" (or something -- I'm paraphrasing a lot here), so... yeah.
The commentary to this episode ended up being really interesting and gave me valuable insight into how much work goes into even bad episodes. Seriously, watch it, and realize how much time and effort they put into scenes that really weren't all that good. And things like they hired an actor instead of a stuntman for the demon at the end because they thought they needed someone who would act. And that they originally intended him as a recurring character, but were (thankfully) prevented from that by budget limitations.
EDIT: On a completely random note, after changing my avatar, I don't really recognize my own posts anymore. This is going to take some getting used to.
He never flat out states it, but he does talk about how Giles and Buffy at the end was pretty much summing up the moral of the episode, and that conversation comes down to basically "I had one drink and was almost sacrificed to a giant snake" (I can't remember the quote, it was something like that) and Giles comments that "Saying let that be a lesson to you would be an understatement" (or something -- I'm paraphrasing a lot here), so... yeah.
The commentary to this episode ended up being really interesting and gave me valuable insight into how much work goes into even bad episodes. Seriously, watch it, and realize how much time and effort they put into scenes that really weren't all that good. And things like they hired an actor instead of a stuntman for the demon at the end because they thought they needed someone who would act. And that they originally intended him as a recurring character, but were (thankfully) prevented from that by budget limitations.
EDIT: On a completely random note, after changing my avatar, I don't really recognize my own posts anymore. This is going to take some getting used to.
I watched the commentary, and you're right, it was really interesting. I like learning about the production side of things for shows I like, and this was was good for that. I thought they're desire to really convey the snake-demon's facial expression being behind their hiring of an actor as opposed to a stuntman was interesting. Like you said, it's kind of fascinating to see the thought process that goes into things like that, even when the ideas are executed poorly.
With David Greenwalt, I like him, but I think he REALLY likes the cheesy elements of his show. I believe he even mentioned that the best parts of BTVS are the cheesy elements and that they're the heart of the series (which I don't agree with at all). That tends to come across in the episodes he runs. Personally, I didn't mind most of the Mikita stuff, even though I know I'm very much in the minority there. I think with more money Mikita could have been an interesting concept.
I don't know. I know it isn't an overly popular episode, but I enjoy it. It's fun (Xander dressing up as what he thinks is "mature" was hilarious). Despite some of the negative comments from other posters, I thought Boreanaz was excellent here. It's nice to see the plot actually using him as a fighter, because power wise, he's almost on par with Buffy.
Omg the part when Giles comes out of the school like"Buffy!" That reminds me if the time my uncle did that to me on when I was 15. Lol.
Ok, I dont get what Buffy means when age says "when you kiss me I wanna die" does she mean die so she can be a vampire like him??
The part when Giles has the sword and he's like "will you be ready if a vampire is behind you!?" is so funny, has me weak everytime.
I like the dress Cordelia wears to the party, they both look pretty.
Ok I know Xanders out numbered and everything but he could have put up a little more of a fight. I mean come on guys, if that was you, would you have let them guys do that to you so easily.
I love this episode. It's probably in the top five most fun episodes of the entire series. Just the concept of it alone I find hilarious, but the execution was almost perfect. Xander was pretty awesome throughout, and his line of "just want you to know, I'm taking a lot on faith here" was awesome. You know, prior to this rewatch I always thought of Spike as the funniest character in the series, but Xander has a lot of great moments too.
I've always liked Ethan Rayne. I think he's a great bad guy. His history with Giles is what cinches it (and it was very cool seeing Giles expand a bit), but it's amazing how he's become such a memorable villain when really, his entire motivation comes down to nothing really special. He's just an asshole.
Seeing the reversal of Buffy as just useless and Willow having to take charge was a cool way to shake things up. I liked Willow a lot in this one. Once she steps up to the plate she was great, and it was nice to see her finally emerge from her shell a bit. It's difficult to sympathize with Xander not noticing her when she comes to Halloween dressed like a ghost. I'd forgotten about the setup with Oz too. I like that a lot.
Halloween was a great episode. I do find Buffy to be rather annoying as a proper lady though. I liked that the rest of the cast was sort of in charge this time, especially Willow. She also looked great in that outfit. 😛 My favorite line is when Willow tells Giles he should have seen what Cordelia was wearing and he thinks she turned into an actual feline. haha Just the way he delivered that line was pretty funny.
Halloween was a great episode. I do find Buffy to be rather annoying as a proper lady though. I liked that the rest of the cast was sort of in charge this time, especially Willow. She also looked great in that outfit. 😛 My favorite line is when Willow tells Giles he should have seen what Cordelia was wearing and he thinks she turned into an actual feline. haha Just the way he delivered that line was pretty funny.
Halloween was one of my favorite ones. Ok I think this is why I have a problem with Angel and Cordy supposidly being in love on his show. It's like she won. (I dont care if I sound like a brat lol)Buffy looks really pretty dressed as a nobel woman, and Willow is bad in that outfit, why did she have to put the ghost sheet over it (smh) but I guess it worked out for the best. At least she took it off at the end and Oz sees her. When Xander changes into the soilder he's actually kinda sexy...then he turns back into goofy ol' Xander. Oh and I swear when I first seen this I was like Spike is obsessed. Do he like her or somethin? Look how he's all running his hands through her hair and touching her face...whats that about. (See I knew lol) Anyway, Buffy and Angel at the end are so cute.
Oh and I swear when I first seen this I was like Spike is obsessed. Do he like her or somethin? Look how he's all running his hands through her hair and touching her face...whats that about.
I never really thought much of that before, but I think Spike was attracted to Buffy from the very moment he saw her dancing at The Bronze. Even though he tried to kill her more than once, I think there was some sort of attraction that he never had with other slayers in the past.
There's a lot to like here. It's funny, I enjoyed this episode pretty much from start to finish, but when I think back on the series, I rarely consider it to be one of the best episodes. You can tell right from the start that this is a Whedon written/directed one. The dialogue from just about everyone takes a significant step up.
Seeing Angel interact more with the cast beyond Buffy was cool. He, Willow and Xander pulled it off perfectly. The Angel/Willow scene in her bedroom was my favorite part of the episode. Willow not being able to remotely keep a secret was pretty funny too. And the Angel/Xander/Willow recon mission to Ford's lair was pretty hilarious. "Bossy the cow" might be the best nickname ever. It was cute seeing Willow trying to play pool with Angel and have him actually be part of the group, and it just not working in the least. And it was pretty funny seeing Angel just having no idea, again, why Buffy isn't happy.
Man, I love S2 Spike. He just steals it, every time he's on screen. The scene with Drusilla and the bird is probably my favorite Spike/Dru moment ever. And his conversation with Ford was priceless. "I've known you for two minutes and I can't stand you. I don't really feature you living forever". Awesome.
The only thing that didn't really work was Ford's pity party at the end. I get that they were trying to engender sympathy for him but man, I felt none. Zero. His move? That's about the ultimate scumbag play. That's just so"¦Frey. That's about the only way I can describe it.
In Lie to Me, who was doing Angel's makeup? With the scenes in Willow's bedroom, he appears to be wearing orange lipstick or maybe DayGlo paint on his lips. But this was a pretty good episode.
- Jenny trying to get Giles to go on a surprise date
- Cordelia taking Marie Antoinette's side
- Willow realizing what the Divinyls were singing about
- Diego = Marvin
- Jack Palance as a vampire on TV
- Angel in Willow's room - Willow stashes her bra that was on the floor
- Angel in DayGlo lipstick. Where was the director when that got filmed?
- Ford claims to have killed a vampire
- Angel: "children making up bedtime stories of friendly vampires to comfort
themselves in the dark" - isn't that what this show is about?
- monster trucks. Yup, Jenny really has Giles dialed in, doesn't she?
- supposedly dead vampire steals a book from Giles
- Drusilla's bird
- Ford pulls a Judas and sets up Buffy
- "Ours is a forbidden love" - Willow (to Xander about Angel) - best line in the episode
- the all-you-can-eat moron bar
- She's not stuck in the basement
- Ford is dust
Yes! Two of my favourite episodes, I watched them back to back.
Halloween
-First off, something that has always bugged me: yeah, yeah I get it, Buffy wants Willow to break out of her shell, but what is she dressed as? How would Buffy think that was appropriate to take kids trick or treating in?
-I agree with Angel. What's up with the hair?
-Care bear with fangs, lol.
-Spike with an army of kid demons
-Do vamps show up on a video? I'm always surprised to see one.
-Loved the square off with Giles and Ethan. The ending was great.
-Hi Honey, I'm home.
Score: 98/100
Lie to me
-Also a favourite!
-Wonderful, creepy start with drusilla.
-The acting for Ford first is a tad dull and weak.
-First appearance of Anne, but as ''her wild, exotic phase'' Chanterelle. Love her
-I loved seeing Angel communicate with other scoobies. "I'm not supposed to have boys in my room''
-The bird is dead, dru. Love it.
-That outfit is really, really dorky. I can't stress it enough. It. is. dorky. Dorky, dorky, dorky, dorky, dorky
-I keep on forgetting that this is the episode where Drusilla is revealed to Buffy that she is a vampire.
-Angel really isn't a people person. Last time I looked, "you're all fools", doesn't make people stop what they are doing
-One of my fav buffy quotes ''you have a choice. It's not a good choice''
-I loved that vamp Ford was just a clean stake. It would have been incredibly tacky if he said ''hey buff''
-This ep really does the attraction to naivety really well: that you have to grow up, etc. Gile's speech at the end, and when Buffy says ''liar'' resonated strongly with me.
-Drusilla parallels with Ford: both were normal people, yet went through a very traumatic ordeal. One remained good, she needed to be infested with a demon to be evil, one lost all sense of morality. Both were insane, one who had lost sanity, the other a borderline sociopath. Both became demons. Both are tragic stories.
About Ford: Nothing excuses what he is doing, yet I dunno, it was weird, because when he said ''try vomiting for 24 hours straight and then we'll discuss the concept of right and wrong'' it hit a nerve for me. To go through a godawful ordeal, and lose your moral compass. I mean, I don't support what he is doing, I don't sympathise, but because I truly he is only evil by extremely bad circumstances, I can't even consider him completely 100% evil. I think the ep wanted us to think about this, and for that, I thought it was a success.
"Alright guys, the first thing we're gonna do is"¦Buffy!" Yes Xander, my thoughts too. And while we're at it, Buffy at the blood bank, in the leather jacket, she was just so"¦(maybe it's best if I don't go any further down that road"¦).
Another gem episode. This is easily one of my favorite Giles episodes. We saw a bit deeper into his character during the "Halloween" episode, but here it really expands, and it was done brilliantly. We haven't seen Giles anything like this in previous episodes. He just comes apart at the seams (before ultimately pulling it together of course), and that's just so"¦un-Giles. I've always been a big fan of the Giles/Jenny relationship, and it was cool, albeit a little sad, seeing it develop further here.
As always, Ethan Rayne was great. "Honesty, that's new." "Well it's one of my virtues"¦Not really". The chemistry that he and Buffy had was excellent. BTVS has always been exceptional at producing really funny and entertaining villains, and Ethan is right near the top of the list.
I'm normally a little hard on the Scoobies for not always making the best tactical decisions (although that's probably the product of analyzing them so much, and not an actual reflection of the characters themselves. Or at least, not a totally fair one), but I thought Willow was awesome at the end. Figuring out that Igon jumps into dead bodies and then connecting that to Angel was, well, pretty brilliant. Plus, even though we haven't seen Angelus yet, it was cool to see him totally trump a lesser bad guy.
I remember really liking this episode. I still like it, though I'm starting to think that the reason I really like it is how it keeps being called back to and referenced throughout the series, such as in Innocence, which really has a great ending that hinges on this episode having happened.
One thing that I kind of forgot about this season is how long it really takes to get back to Spike and the main storyline. He's a presence in this episode and the next, but neither of them really move things forward in any appreciable way. You end up waiting until episode 9 for the storyline to pick up and for things to really move forward again, plotwise.
As for this episode itself (I have a really hard time writing something that actually talks about the episode at hand)... One thing that I noticed is that the editing and cinematography sometimes seems weird. The pacing gets a little weird later on -- now, the fact that they keep cutting back between scenes and plotlines (especially between the Scoobies and Giles beating the hell out of Ethan) is really common. While I'd rather they not do that so much, it usually doesn't bother me. For some reason, in this episode it really stuck out and I ended up noticing it all the time, while I really just wanted things to move forward. I also thought that the cinematography in the fight between Buffy and Spike at the end of episode was... weird, but I couldn't exactly put my finger on why.
I notice that as I do this, I'm able to say a lot more negative than positive -- it's a habit of mine. Most of the time, it's hard to tell why I like something other than "I thought that was funny", especially in episodes like this where most of it is comedy. There are a lot of funny moments in this, and I especially find it interesting to make the actors play different characters (notice how often that happens in this show and Joss's work in general), but I don't know how much more I can say about it than that.
Also, I thought that Buffy's portrayal of the noblewoman was more than a little weird -- the accent was on the inconsistent side, and her lines were a little too... on the nose.
I don't even know where I was going with all of this. I promise that I liked the episode, I just don't know how to stop the negativity/criticism.
Lie to Me:
Spike is back as a major player!... and the storyline is still sitting still. I've been really looking forward to Season 2 in the rewatch, but the storyline is really stalling out here and I'm just waiting for it to happen. But at least something interesting is happening here.
I'm liking the introduction of some real moral ambiguity to the story here -- there's just enough of it to be interesting, though there will definitely be more later on. Up until now, there was a tiny bit that you might miss, but there's no way that that's happening now. While this was a good episode, it was not a great one, but things have started to grey up considerably, which will only increase in the future. Ford is a great example of someone who is a villain who has a reason and a motivation, but isn't really justified in what he's trying to do. (Also, random thought: are there enough people with some variation on the name "William" in the series?
The echoing of Buffy saying that she wants Giles to lie to her works a lot better than it would on paper -- she's completely sick of people lying to her, which happens throughout the entire episode, but she realizes that Angel is right about it, and sometimes lies are needed.
Speaking of Angel, we've now seen the Seventh Episode Twist for the second time in the series, and now we're starting to see how it fits within the season as a whole. As I said in School Hard, seasons 2 and 3 follow a pretty definite pattern, almost to the episode. In the seventh, we take the point of conflict that was introduced in the third episode, then deepen it -- in this, we learn that Angel has a strong connection to Drusilla and Spike, especially the depth to which it goes. We knew something was there before, but we're now seeing how deep it goes, and it complicates the current conflict greatly.
The Dark Age:
Again, I feel bad for saying bad things about these episodes -- this isn't all that bad, but it's not exactly something that I really remember -- this is the first time I've watched it since my first time through the series, and a lot of the things in it I didn't remember until watching through it now.
Something that I've not been giving the show enough credit for is its humor -- the thing is, there haven't really been many episodes that are made to be funny (Something Blue is the perfect example of a comedy episode), so I don't really point it out. However, Xander and Cordelia really need some credit for their banter -- there's a reason that those two are great together.
The strain that this puts on Jenny and Giles in their relationship is especially tragic when you look at it in retrospect, since it never really gets fixed. That's really the only strong dramatic element in the episode -- most of the rest was more of a campy demon story, which kind of works and kind of doesn't. We'll get glimpses into who Giles was in his younger years in a much better way later on (Band Candy comes to mind, as does The Gift. Definitely The Gift.), so this episode only touches on the very top layer of it, which means that this episode kind of lets me down in hindsight.
Random thought: did the makeup for the Eyghon effect make anyone else think of Anyanka? I thought it did at first, though later on it made Jenny look like an elf or something, and I found myself more than a little confused.
One issue with the end of this episode: it was all a little too easy, with Angel basically defeating the demon by being there in the room. The idea that something as powerful as Eyghon would have to be in order to have survived so long being defeated so easily drives me crazy. If it was that simple, I'd have thought that it could've happened by then, even if just by accident. How does it get through 20 years without ever jumping into a relatively strong vampire?
They do retcon it in the Angel & Faith comics, where Eyghon survives.
Well, that's about all I have to say about the episodes that I've missed commenting on here for some reason or another (I'm working on better arranging my life so I can get to these on time more often, let's hope that it actually works.)
On another note, What's My Line Parts 1 and 2 are for Saturday -- I think that I'll combine most episodes that serve as two-parters, even some of the unofficial ones.
Okay, here's something important: due to the start of the official rewatch, the amount of conversation in this thread has fallen greatly. Because of this, I'm thinking that this should probably go on hiatus soon and wait for the official rewatch to catch up, so people don't have their attention split and everyone is on the same page.
Now, I'm pretty sure that we're going to go on this hiatus, but before that, I need to figure out exactly when. My thought was that we'd go on hiatus just before Surprise and Innocence so that we'd have as many people talking about it when that comes around, but we could go on hiatus before that. I'm just wondering what others think about this idea.
Before my thoughts on the episode, after the episode Bad Eggs and right before Surprise, this is going on hiatus until the official rewatch catches up, at which point the two will merge into a single thread.
What's My Line: Parts 1 & 2
First thought about this: Seeing Kendra always makes me miss Faith being on the show -- she's so much better than Kendra in just about every way. Also, fun fact: Bianca Lawson is still playing teenagers -- just a few years ago she was in the first season of Pretty Little Liars (why do I know this?)
Also, I can't believe that I never realized what the title of this show meant -- I've caught some episodes of the game show What's My Line, but I never made the connection. Probably because that show was only on at 4 AM on the Game Show Network, and therefore when I actually saw it, I was usually pretty much sleep deprived. But in case anyone was wondering, in the show, people would say things about what their job was, and people had to guess from these clues what they did for a living. And now you know.
First part of this is a little too much setup, but it ends with quite the cliffhanger, which I think is a rather brilliant way of adding to the story and handling the fact that Buffy did die in Prophecy Girl -- plus I'm a little biased because it does eventually lead to Faith, but really, you can't tell me it's not brilliant.
I like seeing Oz starting to become part of the group, and I forgot just how much I liked Oz -- he kind of reminds me of myself, with the whole detached irony thing -- I'm the person who relies a little too much on humor and stuff like that to deal with difficult situations, and so I see a good amount of myself in him. But since he leaves the show during Season 4 (I know someone who will have a lot of rage when we get to that point), I really kind of forget how much I liked his character.
When they first showed Willie's bar and showed him, my first thought was "Bob!" -- anyone who's seen Becker should know what I'm talking about. He's equally sleazy in both shows.
Xander and Cordelia are quite the pair, and I like this relationship. I never thought it was going to be permanent, but it is amazingly fun to watch. The arguing actually feels like it's on top of sexual tension and not just because these are two people who hate each other, which I think is something very important to making the pairing believable. They're just fun to watch. Also, when they kiss in the second episode, well, there's the rising music... (echoing one of my favorite quotes from later in the show).
Also, watching it now, it's quite obvious that the actress playing the policewoman is the same one attacking Faith in Season 4 of Angel -- outside of the fact that she's called Patrice here and Deb in that episode, I'd think they're both the same character. I don't know if that was ever the intention, but someone needed to pay a little more attention if that was.
First time I watched this episode, which I'm not sure why, I was kind of confused as to what exactly had happened over the course of the episode. Part of it, I think, is that nothing really changed at the end. Drusilla has been restored to her full strength, but now Spike is crippled, everyone survives, Kendra is sent back to fake Jamaica, and what's really changed? I know that, originally, Spike was supposed to die at this point, but that would've led to much of the same problem. This is much different than Surprise and Innocence, at which point pretty much everything changes, and it's much clearer that something came out of all of this. With these episodes, things don't really change all that much, so in spite of all the things that happen, we're still pretty much back at square one when all is said and done. Really, the only thing that has changed significantly is Xander and Cordelia and, to a lesser extent, Willow and Oz. Not too much else has really changed.
And favorite line: "Hey! Angel's our friend... except I don't like him."
I'm realizing how negative all of this sounds, but that's just because of the way I approach things -- if I don't mention something I usually like it, and I find it a lot easier to talk about what I don't like than what I do like unless they do something incredibly well.
One more thing: When the three of them are together, the banter between Angel, Drusilla, and Spike is great -- the three of them work really well together, and we'll see a lot of that this season. Now, something that comes to mind is how much more fun it is to watch David Boreanaz when he's acting like an asshole, like he is to Spike -- he just plays that role so well, which is why Angelus is so awesome, and why I wonder what he's like in person -- I've heard from some people that he likes to hear himself talk, but I'll try to stop here to avoid being libelous.
Also, talking point: what was the first member of the Order of Taraka? Was he some sort of demon, or was he human? And why isn't there any visible blood after Buffy slits his throat with a skate? I've seen enough hockey to have seen that happen multiple times, and there is a ton of blood even if the person survives and gets immediate medical help. So, what exactly is going on there?
There are probably more things that I could talk about, but I don't take notes while watching anymore -- I write what I think after I watch, so I'm going to forget some things, but if I can't remember something afterwards, I'm not entirely sure if it's really worth talking about.
Goddammit. I've got some serious catching up to do.
I'm currently caught up in watching Castle and Veronica Mars. Yeah, that Kickstarter thing made me curious. Too much to watch, too much....
I've always really enjoyed these two episodes. Romantically they advance the plot quite a bit (which was nice because up until this point Buffy/Angel was really the only constant relationship we had). Xander/Cordy, Willow/Oz and Giles/Jenny are all in action by the end.
It was great to see Oz more involved in the show. He's one of my favorite characters, his humor is fantastic and he's so great for Willow. Cordy and Xander is one of my favorite couplings of the show as well, and the chemistry they have all throughout is great. Watching the commentary, it was interesting hearing Marti Noxon talk about how she doesn't think their relationship is over. Huh. She might have missed the mark on that one.
But I really liked how they got together. The bug man was probably the best vehicle ever for Xander's humor ("I am the bug-man, coo, coo cachoo") and the way he and Cordy take them out at the end was great. Also, Xander just not letting up with the water hose was pretty funny too.
I like the general story, and the concept of two Slayers is amazing. I hadn't even considered that when first watching the series, but it's storytelling at it's finest and like [MENTION=12230]Mischlings[/MENTION] said, gives some nice weight to the end of S1. Kendra, and while this is probably the goal, is pretty annoying, and it makes me just want Faith to show up now.
Also, talking point: what was the first member of the Order of Taraka? Was he some sort of demon, or was he human? And why isn’t there any visible blood after Buffy slits his throat with a skate? I’ve seen enough hockey to have seen that happen multiple times, and there is a ton of blood even if the person survives and gets immediate medical help. So, what exactly is going on there?
Yeah, I think he was a human. Noxon said in the commentary that she initially wrote buckets of blood, but the censors wouldn't allow it. And yeah, blood would have been pouring out, live or die.
The ending to the Order of Taraka was a little bit of a letdown. They're just...gone. No explanation needed apparently 🙄.
Yeah, good episodes. Now we go to "Ted". Sigh. Great.
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