Unpopular Opinions III - Backers of Beer Bad and Bashers of Becoming

No, she didn't. She was quite far from Andrew when she was killed. Andrew saved himself by accident. 😀

Really? I was always under the impression Anya did save Andrew.. D:
That kind of saddens me.

As for unpopular opinions..
I love Conversations with Dead People, but I think it's overrated and could have been way better.
I think it should have dealt with the core four;
Willow sees Tara, Xander sees Jesse, Giles sees Jenny, and Buffy sees Joyce.
I know a lot of people like Dawn's part in the ep., but I'm sorry, there's only so much of her screaming I can take per episode.

I liked the Jasmine arc in Ats, hated everything that led up to it.
 
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TheVoid68
Agreed about CwDP
Really? I was always under the impression Anya did save Andrew.. D:
That kind of saddens me.

Continues the off topic.

To me it all depend on how you see it. She didn't save Andrew directly from death, like take a stab for him. But if she hadn't been at his side fighting there's no way Andrew would have survived. Of course someone else could have taken her place but I'm sure Andrew saw it as that she saved his life.
 
Really? I was always under the impression Anya did save Andrew.. D:
That kind of saddens me.

It shouldn't. Anya was there fighting for the humanity, that's still admirable.

Joss said in the Chosen commentary, "Again, I had very much planned not to have any reason for Anya's death, any reason behind it or any reason to come after it. But the writer in me couldn't not resolve it somewhat, and I think the audience needed what Xander needed, which was something. And that something was Andrew learning that the thing that he's sort of reviled for, making up stories, becomes the thing that he helps Xander with. Becomes the thing that he actually is good at. Giving her the epic death that she didn't actually get to have."
 
My dislike of him aside, I thought Xander's reaction to Anya's death was very sweet and sad. He looks heartbroken, even if he doesn't actually say it. And that's interesting about Andrew technically lying; I was under the impression she did save him. Still, like someone else said, she died fighting the Apocalypse to save humanity. For her character, that is such a huge, epic death.
 
I agree. Anya died a hero, whether she died saving Andrew or not. It's a huge leap from the woman who ran away from the apocalypse in S3 or the woman who admitted that she only cared about herself and Xander surviving in S5. This Anya learned to care about humanity as a whole.
 
Joan the Vampire Slayer
Joan the Vampire Slayer
God, seriously, I agree with everything you've said lately. :)
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Marisa
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The fact that Anya tended to behave in a very selfish, or self-interested, way belies the fact that she had no established sense of self whatseover - that's where "Selfless" ends, with her committed to discovering who exactly Aud/Anyanka/Anya is, by herself and not reflected through the lens of Olaf, D'Hoffryn or Xander. The resolution to her story comes in her decision to actually stay and fight. It's a newfound love of humanity, sure - but the important thing is that it's a decision she makes by herself. So her story is given a suitable resolution, which is nice.

And incidentally, I love Anya's death. It's brutal, it's devoid of greater meaning, it's random. This is what happens in war: people die. They don't get opportunities for last-breath soliloquys, they don't go down the hero, their deaths don't have individual 'meaning'. They aren't saved by the people they love or by the lives they've led. They... just... die. Brutally and needlessly. We hate being confronted with this fact in a fictional environment, where we expect that more or less everything will work out for the best. But Joss Whedon doesn't often go for that. He didn't with Joyce, and he didn't with Anya. That's one of the many things I admire about him.
 
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Fake Shemp
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crazysoulless
crazysoulless
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I always took it as her protecting Andrew but Joss's comments suggest otherwise. Nevertheless her death was heroic and her actions did contribute to Andrew staying alive albeit indirectly.
 
And incidentally, I love Anya's death. It's brutal, it's devoid of greater meaning, it's random. This is what happens in war: people die. They don't get opportunities for last-breath soliloquys, they don't go down the hero, their deaths don't have individual 'meaning'. They aren't saved by the people they love or by the lives they've led. They... just... die. Brutally and needlessly. We hate being confronted with this fact in a fictional environment, where we expect that more or less everything will work out for the best. But Joss Whedon doesn't often go for that. He didn't with Joyce, and he didn't with Anya. That's one of the many things I admire about him.

I agree with this... some very true statements.

But, at the same time, I feel I must argue the point... yes, people die in war. It's a blunt fact. But Anya's death simply did not fit the show. It was out of place, rushed...

Yeah, Joyce's death was sudden. But her death was also given an entire episode. I can't help but feel that Anya's death was just a flaw in writing and a result of the fact that so much was crammed into the last episode of a series that clearly everyone working on was tired of. Joss has said it himself, how exhausted he was at that point with the show.

Throughout the show's history, other main character died as well. Tara was shot senselessly. But her death had consequences. It's something that Joss had preached from the beginning: Everything has consequences. Willow turned evil. Jenny died, and it was a major breaking point for the characters in S2. Her death also asserted that Joss was willing to let beloved characters go.

But I can't abide by Anya's death, saying it's the brutal truth. Because, quite frankly, this was a fictional show. And, up until that point, the "brutal truth of war" was only somewhat asserted. Her death was over in two seconds, and the only period of recognition was Xander saying something along the lines of "that's my girl... always doing the stupid thing". Now, there's no way of knowing whether the other characters reflected upon her after the fact (unless maybe you read the comics....) but for those of us who don't read the comics, that was it.

For me, it was just lax writing. Either the desire to kill someone off who the audience cared about, or (as one rumour has it...) so that Anya's character would not have to return if a movie was ever made. I'm betting on the first one.
 
MandaMeena
MandaMeena
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For me, it was just lax writing. Either the desire to kill someone off who the audience cared about, or (as one rumour has it...) so that Anya's character would not have to return if a movie was ever made. I'm betting on the first one.

The problem is, there's no time for mourning Anya or Spike. One hour is too short for a finale that'll satisfy everyone. I remember SMG saying that Chosen should have been two hours, because important characters like Xander weren't given much to do in the very last episode when he was there since the beginning. I agree with her.

I was disappointed that Xander's, Dawn's and Giles' roles were very minor in the finale when they were more important than say Faith or Andrew? It's really sad how they were shoved to the background like that.
 
MandaMeena
MandaMeena
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DoughnutHole
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Wishing Oceans
Wishing Oceans
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It shouldn't. Anya was there fighting for the humanity, that's still admirable.
Oh, I'm not disagreeing with that. Still, it's kinda like when I read that Joss stated that Joyce was actually The First in CwDP. A bit disappointing/saddening.

For some reason, it never even crossed my mind that Andrew was telling another exaggerated story. Only this time to help Xander.

It still somewhat upsets me that we never see the gang grieve for the ones they lost, especially Anya. I've only made it through TPB Vol.3, but so far from what I can remember, there isn't even a mention of Spike, Anya, or even Amanda.
I'd love to see Emma Caulfield in comic form.. so personally I'm hoping for a flashback or something in comics to come.

Trying to stay on topic...
Uhm.
Idk how unpopular of an opinion this is, but I hate the episode Amends. It's so boring D:
The end is sweet though.
 
I was disappointed that Xander's, Dawn's and Giles' roles were very minor in the finale when they were more important than say Faith or Andrew? It's really sad how they were shoved to the background like that.

I agree completely!

I do think that, as a finale, "The Gift" is much better written. But then we wouldnt have gotten the last two seasons. To it's a trick situation.
 
Agreed about The Gift/Chosen, particularly when it comes to giving characters things to do. In The Gift, everyone played a part. Willow got to brainsuck Glory and save Tara, Xander proposed to Anya and hit Glory with a wrecking ball, and Giles killed Ben/Glory. In Chosen, Willow got to empower the potentials (which didn't actually do much in the end), but Giles and Xander were hardly seen, put on the same level as Dawn, Andrew and Wood. 🙁
 
Interesting points about characters not having a lot to do in "Chosen". Personally i never thought about it in that way but on reflection i agree that the finale would have been more effective if it had been longer. Nevertheless i still found "Chosen" to be an extremely poignant way of ending the series.
 
MandaMeena
MandaMeena
A lot of shows nowadays have 2-hour specials (especially for the season finales). Would have loved that with Buffy.
E
Eleftheria
yeah we definitely needed 2 hours...
I've only made it through TPB Vol.3, but so far from what I can remember, there isn't even a mention of Spike, Anya, or even Amanda.

If you're in Vol.3 then Anya would be mentioned. Andrew tells the Slayers how Xander and Dracula ended up "friends". He says that Xander went to Dracula to mourn Anya. Now not everything Andrew says is true, the guy enjoys twisting real stories to make them more romantic and interesting.
 
Okay, this is a new opinion – but I’ve just realised from doing and planning Season 2 banners for my project, that I don’t actually like Season 2 very much. There are so many weak episodes! I think I prefer Season 1...
 
Yeah, S2 has plenty of weak episodes (Bad Eggs, Go Fish, Some Assembly Required, Reptile Boy) - but then again it has loads of strong episodes (School Hard, Halloween, Lie to Me, What's my Line, Innocence, I Only Have Eyes For You, Passion, Becoming)
 
caitaintdead
caitaintdead
When it's good it's very very good, but when it's bad it's rotten :)
The thing is that S2's weaker episodes are all standalones with no impact on the main story (the converse isn't true), while the arc episodes range from decent to brilliant. So I'm inclined to rate the season in accordance with its better episodes, because the subpar ones aren't important to the story and on rewatches I frequently just skip them.

(Contrast with S4, which has many strong standalone episodes but a weak arc, and doesn't get nearly as much love as S2)
 
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TheVoid68
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MandaMeena
MandaMeena
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dan k
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The only BtVS season two episode I don't really care for is "Go fish", I think the rest are - if not brilliant - at least very entertaining.
 
I understand what you are saying about season 2 but i think its harsh describing them as weak episodes. For me episodes like "Go Fish" and "Bad Eggs" were still really entertaining to watch.
 
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