Unpopular Rants, Opinions and Confessions II

[Icarium]

No one kicked Buffy out. Why do you keep repeating that? She left on her own.

They do the same thing in S3, insisting they need to take the fight to the mayor if they want to stop the ascension.

It's not the same thing. In S3 they take out Faith first and have, gasp, an actual plan how to deal with The Mayor. Now, I am not much of a fan of GD II and said plan but it did involve actual research instead of relying only on Buffy's premonitions, they used all the help they could get and there was the certainty that the graduation ceremony was their last chance to strike. In Empty Places Buffy says they need to strike quickly but that seems more like the writers realizing that there isn't much time left than anything else.

I don't even consider the battle a failure. The mission was to gain intel and she gained it.

Of course it's a failure. People died and and the rest made it out only because Caleb didn't bother to give chase, IIRC.

 

[Ruminator]

Honestly? Everything about the last four episodes of the show was straight up deus ex machina. The entire plot mechanics behind finding both the scythe and the amulet are just that. How is that even a discussion? It fits the definition to a T!

And by the way, that is NOT a compliment. Deus ex machina are almost universally considered poor or lazy plot techniques. Joss Whedon more or less admits to this in the commentary.

Thats exactly why discussing the rightness and wrongness of Empty Places is so impossible. Deus ex machina, by design, throw off the internal logic of the writing, meaning that it is impossible to satisfy current events with past ones. Seriously, just look at how Buffy handles Caleb versus how she handles, say... the Judge. Internal consistency versus illogical leaps.

See, in the end Buffy is right, there is something at the vineyard. Only what it is is an inexplicably poor plot device designed to bring about a happy ending. This means hindsight allows people to pretend it made sense all along (when it didn't).

Not to mention there is more than a little favoritism that goes on there.

 

[Spiciu]

No one kicked Buffy out. Why do you keep repeating that? She left on her own.

Dawn: 'You're right, we gotta be together on this. You can't be a part of it. So i need you to leave. I'm sorry, but this is my house, too.'

Well, i think you can call it a kick out.
This scene in Empty Places should be dealing with the leadership problem etc but it's just stupid. In my opinion almost everybody goes out of character there, Anya knew pretty sure that being the Slayer was no gift but a burden and Dawn would never kick her own sister (died and dropped college for her...) out with the words 'this is my house'... living there for less than 3 years.
It looked like the writers wanted a breakup to emphasize the final episodes and they forced it against logic and the character development of the last 6 seasons.

 

[Icarium]

Dawn: 'You're right, we gotta be together on this. You can't be a part of it. So i need you to leave. I'm sorry, but this is my house, too.'

Well, i think you can call it a kick out.

Dawn can't force Buffy to leave. If Buffy had said no, it's not as if Dawn could do anything about it other than complain.

It looked like the writers wanted a breakup to emphasize the final episodes and they forced it against logic and the character development of the last 6 seasons.

They wanted Spike to come back and have a pep talk with Buffy, "proving" how he is the only one who cares about her. If this led to character assassinations for everyone else, so be it, who cares about them when Spike is just so coo? [/sarcasm]

 

[TheVoid68]

They do the same thing in S3, insisting they need to take the fight to the mayor if they want to stop the ascension. Was that lunacy as well? I don't think you can put it in the lunacy category to go and see what you're up against. She didn't know Caleb's strength, and after the battle, she found out. You lose a few people, but if we're sticking by the army comparison casualties are inevitable in war. If you never commit to battle, trying not to lose any of your forces you're not going to win. I don't even consider the battle a failure. The mission was to gain intel and she gained it.

1) In S3, they weren't repeating a plan that had already failed once.
2) You're describing the first plan, in Dirty Girls. Nobody's criticising that, we're criticising the repeat of the plan in Empty Places.

 

[GrrArghx]

If I had known my post was going to create an argument, I wouldn't have made it. I was only posting my, apparently very, unpopular opinion like this thread says to.

 

[Taake]

Please guys, I've already said it's time to drop this subject so please lets find a new topic. Clearly there is no agreeing here and this could go on forever.

 

[TheVoid68]

You're right, lets get back on topic.

Beer Bad isn't that bad. The caveman thing is stupid but it's all played tounge-in-cheek ("What have we learned about beer?" "FOAMY!" 😀)

 

[TheChosenTwo]

1. I totally dislike Nina
2. I think "Where The Wild Things Are" is a totally underrated episode. I absolutely love it 😀

 

[xaphania]

Beer Bad isn't that bad. The caveman thing is stupid but it's all played tounge-in-cheek ("What have we learned about beer?" "FOAMY!" 😀)

I agree - it's not a great episode, but it has some very humorous moments.

A large part of my problem with the ep are the snooze-worthy Willow/Parker conversations. But then it's all made better when Buffy whacks Parker on the head. 😀

 

[Kelsey]

Parker was my favorite.

 

[TheChosenTwo]

^ Wow that really is an unpopular opinion 😀

I love Buffy's hair in season 4 😀

Kelsey agrees: I think I might be the only one in all the world. Being a... Barker is so lonely!

I'm gonna turn into a Luffy = Larry & Buffy 😀

 

[Willow-Tree]

I think Cordelia degraded as a character from Seaosn 2 onward on Angel.

Harmony is one of my favorite characters.

I don't like Lorne, Doyle, or Angel.

 

[Vengeance]

Family is a really overrated episode. I just don't like Tara enough to have a whole episode devoted to her.

 

[xaphania]

All the kerfuffle over at Whedonesque regarding the LOGO top 30 list has made me realise...

...I prefer the lighthearted episodes to the serious, thought-provoking ones. 😀

Don't get me wrong, the likes of CWDP, The Body, Restless, Passion etc. are great episodes and would probably be included in my top ten list, but they're not the episodes I watch over and over again. That'd go to the non-arc-heavy, lighthearted eps like Something Blue, BB&B or Crush. 😀

Is this an unpopular opinion? Not sure, lol.

 

[dan k]

All the kerfuffle over at Whedonesque regarding the LOGO top 30 list has made me realise...

...I prefer the lighthearted episodes to the serious, thought-provoking ones. 😀

Don't get me wrong, the likes of CWDP, The Body, Restless, Passion etc. are great episodes and would probably be included in my top ten list, but they're not the episodes I watch over and over again. That'd go to the non-arc-heavy, lighthearted eps like Something Blue, BB&B or Crush. 😀

Is this an unpopular opinion? Not sure, lol.

I can sort of relate to this, it depends what mood i'am in though. Very often i find myself wanting to watch an episode that will make me laugh so i'll watch some of the ones you mentioned.

However that's not to say i won't watch serious episodes often, just depends what mood i am in.

 

[Kelsey]

All the kerfuffle over at Whedonesque regarding the LOGO top 30 list has made me realise...

...I prefer the lighthearted episodes to the serious, thought-provoking ones. 😀

Don't get me wrong, the likes of CWDP, The Body, Restless, Passion etc. are great episodes and would probably be included in my top ten list, but they're not the episodes I watch over and over again. That'd go to the non-arc-heavy, lighthearted eps like Something Blue, BB&B or Crush. 😀

Is this an unpopular opinion? Not sure, lol.

First, I love the word kerfuffle. Kerfuffle, kerfuffle, kerfuffle.

Ahem, okay. I actually like more light-hearted episodes, too! I'm never particularly curious about the overall arc. I mean, I like discovering and figuring out the plotline, but if the particular story is good and it satisfies me, I don't spend heaps of extra time thinking about the overall story arc. And if I'm going to rewatch an episode, it's usually because it's hilarious and wildly entertaining rather than chock-full of plot.

 

[Taake]

I love Buffy's hair in season 4 😀

here here, that's one of my fave Buffy-hair seasons 😀 I think she looks her best there really, though her fashion sense leaves something to be desired at times ;P. :biggrin3:

 

[GrrArghx]

I think this is unpopular: I think Buffy, or more accurately Sarah, looks really weird in S3. Like I'm not sure what it is... I think it's her eyebrows or something 😛 I just can't really tell what makes her look so weird to me, lol. But I just don't think she looks very pretty until way later in the season.

IMO, she looks her prettiest in S7 🙂

 

[Taake]

I think this is unpopular: I think Buffy, or more accurately Sarah, looks really weird in S3. Like I'm not sure what it is... I think it's her eyebrows or something 😛 I just can't really tell what makes her look so weird to me, lol. But I just don't think she looks very pretty until way later in the season.

I agree, also her clothes in s3 are just awful if you ask me. Way too girly. On the extras I think it's said that that was Sarah's idea though.
But just... awful. Like that dreadful green ensemble she wears at the end of "Lover's walk" - it looks like something my grandmother would wear :S