Were they right dismissing Spike?

[zobothehobo]

I see your point but I still say that it was very reasonable for the Scoobies and Buffy to dismiss him for this.

A soulless, unethical, not so harmless vampire... if you ignore your love for Spike here (picture Angelus doing it for that makes it easier 😉) that description should make Buffy think "hmm were did I put that sharp piece of wood again" and rightly so.

As my first post in this thread says, I too think it was reasonable to dismiss him. But I think if they had handled the situation with caution BEFORE this happened, it might not have even happened. I mean if they had thought about it and said "ok, a soulless vampire just said he loved Buffy. Last time he talked about loving someone he was saying how he was going to go find her, chain her up, and torture her until she loved him. Maybe we should proceed with caution. Let him know Buffy doesn't love him without her saying she feels disgusting and dirty because he loves her." 'Cause last I checked, soulless vamps are super psychopaths... with extra psycho. I just feel like a lot of the fault lies with Buffy and the Scoobies for the poor way they handled the whole thing.

 

[Litheran]

I'll skate around the question for a bit before I answer. While I love where Spike's character ended up. (Turning his back on evil and becoming a champion.) The road there was at times convoluted and trite. It's only because of JM and SMG's stellar acting that it works.

The thing you have to remember about Spike is that he's been with Drusilla over a century. All he knows about "courting" and how to treat a woman comes from her. It doesn't let him off the hook; but it explains his behavior. That's why he can feel free to just stroll into the magic box; he doesn't get that it's wrong.

With that said; Buffy was harsh upon finding out about the crush; but come on. William the Bloody is in love with you...(easy ladies)...he's attempted to kill you and your friends several times. So it's understandable for her to freak out. I would say the Scoobies only lost their ability to judge Spike after the summer Buffy was dead. Despite his past actions; being a watch dog for Buffy's sister and no doubt saving their asses countless times earns him a little forgiveness in my book.

So; although we as the audience were able to see how Spike was sincere or good in private; we can't judge Buffy or the Scoobies for only seeing what Spike wanted them to see.

The more I talk about Buffy and Spuffy the more I want to film something; need to recruit minions.

 

[sosa lola]

Did he deserve it yes but I look at the scoobies in general to be very harsh toward him. I feel they are always so quick to judge that is why I wish he wouldn't help them at times. Like with Dawn in season 6 he should have left them and let them see how bad it would have been without him because lets face it without Willow and Buffy Spike is the only one that can handle a battle. I know it sounds wrong but that is one thing that always irritated me. I think there are ways to handle situations them all ganging up on him was rude. It was between him and Buffy really I mean beside for Joyce, Dawn and occasionally Willow he didn't care and even love any of them. So to me the scene where Buffy shut him out was better because she had a place to do that. That is how I look at it at least.

I disagree completely. Spike, for some weird reason, came to the Magic Box and they were there. They didn't go to him and beat him up or threaten him, he came to them. What they did was less than what I would have done if somebody chained my best friend and threatened to let someone kill her if she didn't admit she loved him. That's too twisted and wrong. What Giles and the others did was completely justified, and I wouldn't have minded if Spike was punched in the face for what he had done. The fact that he's a vampire is not an excuse, he found himself in love with a human, he should show that love according to the human rules. And if Buffy said, "No," then she means no.

And it's their business. Someone hurting their friend is their business or else they're not really friends. They're just of a bunch of strangers who work together to save the world, and we all know the Scoobies are more than that. By that time, I'd say they're as close as family. Not just friends.

 

[Marisa]

I disagree completely. Spike, for some weird reason, came to the Magic Box and they were there. They didn't go to him and beat him up or threaten him, he came to them. What they did was less than what I would have done if somebody chained my best friend and threatened to let someone kill her if she didn't admit she loved him. That's too twisted and wrong. What Giles and the others did was completely justified, and I wouldn't have minded if Spike was punched in the face for what he had done. The fact that he's a vampire is not an excuse, he found himself in love with a human, he should show that love according to the human rules. And if Buffy said, "No," then she means no.

And it's their business. Someone hurting their friend is their business or else they're not really friends. They're just of a bunch of strangers who work together to save the world, and we all know the Scoobies are more than that. By that time, I'd say they're as close as family. Not just friends.

I understand that but I think they are very unfair. For example Xander wanted to handle the Anya situation by himself. He called Sweets no one said anything. Willow even did the magic spell without informing Spike to bring Buffy back shouldn't she have told him since they were in talks? I think it is only one way with the scoobies. They always want Spike around to help at times but then they are always quick to judge him. I just find them making a big deal and acting so over dramatic to be unfair because everyone of them has messed up on a huge level. Buffy herself has done it all the time but she is forgiven almost right away at times. I think they need to apply that same logic to him. I am not trying to call out everyone else I just feel it is so easy to call out Spike because he was a vampire. He may be a vampire but them being human didn't make the mistakes they made any less serious, yet they act as if they do. Get what I am saying?

I understand they are friends but there is a time and a place. When I used to get into altercations the last thing I looked for was my friend or even family to fight my battles. I understand defending a friend but if it is between two people I don't think others should always be involved. Especially if they are only hearing one side of the story. They treat Spike like a bad child at times so he reacts immature. Do I blame him? Nope not really. He is always all fun and games when they use him as comedy but when something is serious they don't know how to talk. I look at it this way you tell someone you love them and they throw it in your face. Anybody would snap at that. Would they tie someone up? Probably not but they would react. I am just saying for this situation I understand why they did what they did but I do think they were wrong. I guess we can agree to disagree
Btw sorry if some parts don't make sense I am tired.

 

[The Unspoken]

I understand that but I think they are very unfair. For example Xander wanted to handle the Anya situation by himself. He called Sweets no one said anything. Willow even did the magic spell without informing Spike to bring Buffy back shouldn't she have told him since they were in talks? I think it is only one way with the scoobies. They always want Spike around to help at times but then they are always quick to judge him. I just find them making a big deal and acting so over dramatic to be unfair because everyone of them has messed up on a huge level. Buffy herself has done it all the time but she is forgiven almost right away at times. I think they need to apply that same logic to him. I am not trying to call out everyone else I just feel it is so easy to call out Spike because he was a vampire. He may be a vampire but them being human didn't make the mistakes they made any less serious, yet they act as if they do. Get what I am saying?

This is a flawed argument. Two wrongs never make a right. Might as well claim Hitler should've been left to his devices just because the governments of other countries have also messed up at times...
And while the others have made mistakes, none of them are beings of pure evil that enjoy murder, rape, eating babies, etc. Heck, Spike tried to slaughter them just a few episodes ago!

 

[PrettyLilGirl]

I think...ok I CRINGE when he goes into the magic box..especialy under his blanket so hes very vulnerable but their reaction is expected. Dawn annoys me as i feel she is so rude because her sister was chosen over her again (but thats besides the point really 🙂) Giles makes me go 'LEAVE HIM ALONE!' but thinking back i would do the same for my best friends. What i do think is unfair is how they hold his love of Buffy against him even once he has saved their lives or helped them in battle.

Especially Giles in s7. I originally was very annoyed by the writers making Giles go along with Woods plan but I see now that Giles is the one who does things others cant. Like kill Ben for example. Everyone apart from Tara in s6 and maybe Dawn and Willow in s7 really judges Spike and Buffy for developing a relationship with him and its unfair. once he has calmed the obsessive bit down he does good stuff out of his love..mostly lol..he looks after Dawn because he promised Buffy and they still shut him out like hes not part of the group.

...I think i may have started ranting...lol

 

[KellGreen]

This is a flawed argument. Two wrongs never make a right. Might as well claim Hitler should've been left to his devices just because the governments of other countries have also messed up at times...
And while the others have made mistakes, none of them are beings of pure evil that enjoy murder, rape, eating babies, etc. Heck, Spike tried to slaughter them just a few episodes ago!

Yes, but, well, they're basically just as judgemental once Buffy willingly lets him tie her up😛 And i think part of the gist here is that they're flawed, too, so maybe shouldn't judge so harshly (ya know the "people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones" / "he who is without sin shall cast the first stone"). Although, they do their worst later on next season. (I mean, i love it when Spike makes a comment in the cemetery after Hells Bells about Xander leaving Anya at the alter.)

Also, what was said above...after so many, many years with Drusilla, it's amazing he isn't more twisted regarding, you know, matters of love and all.

 

[Marisa]

This is a flawed argument. Two wrongs never make a right. Might as well claim Hitler should've been left to his devices just because the governments of other countries have also messed up at times...
And while the others have made mistakes, none of them are beings of pure evil that enjoy murder, rape, eating babies, etc. Heck, Spike tried to slaughter them just a few episodes ago!

First off I never said Spike was right in his actions. I was just talking about the scoobies they were both wrong. I don't like how you are bringing Hitler into this if I am going to be honest that is a serious situation this a television show big difference.

I know Spike is wrong but they to me are wrong and never own up to it. That is why I dislike the show Buffy more than Angel. I feel like everyone of them is wrong but gosh forbid spike do something wrong once at all he gets jumped on and criticized. That is how I look at it. That is one of the reasons I will always prefer Angel most of the time they can see things and get over them. I am not going to list all the things the scoobies have done because this is a thread about Spike I am just going to say I find their logic hypocritical. I guess we can agree to disagree.

 

[PrettyLilGirl]

I love how i heard James say it one time that Spike was never actually never intentionally made the outsider.It just kind of happened as Joss wrote he ended up being pushed away organically. I think how the writers wrote it worked out for the best in the long run as i think the reason most people love Spike and Buffy as a relationship is because no one else gets a look in no one else understands either of them on that level and if Spike had been made a scooby i dont think their relationship ever would have been so amazing and addictive

 

[sosa lola]

I understand that but I think they are very unfair. For example Xander wanted to handle the Anya situation by himself. He called Sweets no one said anything.

It might sound unfair, but Xander is their friend, Spike isn't. You have a higher tolerance of your friends' screw ups. Also, the man who was killed by Sweet was someone they didn't know, while Spike intended to hurt their friend Buffy. It's a double standards most people have. On the other hand, Xander had received an angry scolding from Giles when he'd messed up with magic before and Willow stopped talking with him for a while because she was angry at him, I guess when they discovered that Xander had summoned Sweet they were still at shock after hearing that Buffy was in heaven. I can see Giles scolding Xander later.

Willow even did the magic spell without informing Spike to bring Buffy back shouldn't she have told him since they were in talks?

Perhaps because Willow only needed three people by her side and Xander was more willing to help her because he was her best friend than Spike. Or maybe because deep down she knew Spike would fight her against it because he'd know that she'd use black magic to do it.

They always want Spike around to help at times but then they are always quick to judge him.

Can you really blame them? They had blindly trusted Spike in S4 to the point where Giles asked him to be part of them, not only did Spike reject the offer, but he kept reminding them that he didn't like them and that they were insane for trusting him or thinking that he was on their side. Eventually, he rewarded them by betraying them with Adam. They could have gotten rid of him after the betrayal, but when he asked for forgiveness they forgave him.

IMO, the Scoobies had cut Spike a lot of slack in S4 and they got burned for it, so they became more wary of him.

 

[PrettyLilGirl]

I totally agree with the Willow spell part. She didnt tell Dawn Giles or Spike..not sayin these three loved her more but they loved her in a different way..and they would have all tried to stop it..I also agree with Spike when he says Willow knew something could go wrong..these people also wouldn't let her..or would find it even harder to deal if it did go wrong and willow had to kill whatever she brought back

 

[Marisa]

It might sound unfair, but Xander is their friend, Spike isn't. You have a higher tolerance of your friends' screw ups. Also, the man who was killed by Sweet was someone they didn't know, while Spike intended to hurt their friend Buffy. It's a double standards most people have. On the other hand, Xander had received an angry scolding from Giles when he'd messed up with magic before and Willow stopped talking with him for a while because she was angry at him, I guess when they discovered that Xander had summoned Sweet they were still at shock after hearing that Buffy was in heaven. I can see Giles scolding Xander later.



Perhaps because Willow only needed three people by her side and Xander was more willing to help her because he was her best friend than Spike. Or maybe because deep down she knew Spike would fight her against it because he'd know that she'd use black magic to do it.




Can you really blame them? They had blindly trusted Spike in S4 to the point where Giles asked him to be part of them, not only did Spike reject the offer, but he kept reminding them that he didn't like them and that they were insane for trusting him or thinking that he was on their side. Eventually, he rewarded them by betraying them with Adam. They could have gotten rid of him after the betrayal, but when he asked for forgiveness they forgave him.

IMO, the Scoobies had cut Spike a lot of slack in S4 and they got burned for it, so they became more wary of him.

Those are all great points but I still don't agree. I feel that no matter how MUCH the scoobies themselves screw up they never hold each other to the same standard as Spike. Since the show is over and they will never do it I don't see it happening. Like I said earlier I am not going to name all the times they messed up because this is about Spike but I will reply to what you said.

Yes Giles gave Xander a scolding but a little thing just like he gave Willow a little remark. That is the thing he is never as harsh as he should be to them but he is willing to let Wood kill Spike. See the double standard? That is why i don't always respect them and never will.

Exactly my point what Willow did was WRONG. She knew Spike would tell her it was wrong but he wasn't even aloud? That makes no sense to me. They are aloud to tell him constantly he is wrong but they don't inform him because she knew he would say she was wrong. I understand they were all in pain and needed Buffy but over time I have come to realize that the scoobies turn way to many blind eyes when it comes to each other especially with an important event such as bringing someone back from the dead.

If I was Spike I would have done the same in season 4. He was basically a pet that they sat around and made fun of when he was around. I mean Buffy herself even did that. Being so new into what you are going to have to live like for the rest of your life is hard enough without having people always adding their opinions and insults. So do I think he went about it the wrong way? Yes but I can't blame him for not wanting to join their gang at that point. They want him to be apart of it they should treat him with respect.

I think we are coming as far as we will though lol. I mean we obviously see different and I think we are both at a standstill and won't change opinions and such so we will have to agree to disagree.

 

[The Unspoken]

First off I never said Spike was right in his actions.

Then what's wrong with the way the Scoobies reacted? If someone has done something that's harmful to others and/or morally reprehensible, is being 'judgmental' about it really a bad thing? If Spike was a human, he would have faced jail time and a restraining order for what he did. Instead, he basically got a slap on the wrist when other vampires are staked before they so much as crawl out of their graves.

I was just talking about the scoobies they were both wrong. I don't like how you are bringing Hitler into this if I am going to be honest that is a serious situation this a television show big difference.

So the characters shouldn't treat murder and kidnap seriously...because it's a tv-show? I guess they shouldn't have grieved for Joyce either since Kristine Sutherland was just a recurring actress. 🙂

I know Spike is wrong but they to me are wrong and never own up to it. That is why I dislike the show Buffy more than Angel. I feel like everyone of them is wrong but gosh forbid spike do something wrong once at all he gets jumped on and criticized.

The Scoobies frequently kidnap people or try to kill or rape them? That disc must be missing from my box set... And it's not like Spike is nice to them to begin with. He always insults them, frequently calls Buffy a bitch, etc. That is, when he isn't trying to kill them. 🙂
And I will never understand the argument 'but character X also did something bad!'. Does that make what Spike did any less worse? If not, then what's the point of bringing it up?

That is how I look at it. That is one of the reasons I will always prefer Angel most of the time they can see things and get over them.

So the Scoobies are supposed to get over attempted murder, kidnap, etc., but Spike can't get over some (justified) hostility? You're applying a double standard.
And I don't recall a member of the Fang Gang trying to kill them for years...

I am not going to list all the things the scoobies have done because this is a thread about Spike

Uhm...hello? You're the one who brought up the fact that the Scoobies have also done crappy things as an argument to defend Spike. An argument I already tackled, I might add.

I am just going to say I find their logic hypocritical.

I don't agree (since none of the Scoobies are beings of pure evil and their transgressions are usually of a much smaller case), but even if they were being hypocritical, that doesn't have any bearing on whether or not they were right in the way they reacted. Might as well claim Buffy should never stake a vampire again because she couldn't bring herself to kill Angelus...

 

[KellGreen]

So the characters shouldn't treat murder and kidnap seriously...because it's a tv-show? I guess they shouldn't have grieved for Joyce either since Kristine Sutherland was just a recurring actress. 🙂...

I think they were stating that usage of a historical figure of that caliber of evil who committed mass genocide is excessive.

The Scoobies frequently kidnap people or try to kill or rape them? That disc must be missing from my box set... And it's not like Spike is nice to them to begin with. He always insults them, frequently calls Buffy a bitch, etc. That is, when he isn't trying to kill them. 🙂

Not often, but on occasion.

I don't agree (since none of the Scoobies are beings of pure evil and their transgressions are usually of a much smaller case)...

Neither is Spike a being of pure evil.

 

[Marisa]

Then what's wrong with the way the Scoobies reacted? If someone has done something that's harmful to others and/or morally reprehensible, is being 'judgmental' about it really a bad thing? If Spike was a human, he would have faced jail time and a restraining order for what he did. Instead, he basically got a slap on the wrist when other vampires are staked before they so much as crawl out of their graves.

I don't think you are getting what I am saying. I am saying overall I think the scoobies are unfair at times. Since you don't agree I guess I don't expect you to see it that way and that is your opinion. I am not going to keep going over why i think they were wrong. I already stated yes Spike was wrong but I think the way they handled the situation was just as wrong. That was the question I don't think they were right.

So the characters shouldn't treat murder and kidnap seriously...because it's a tv-show? I guess they shouldn't have grieved for Joyce either since Kristine Sutherland was just a recurring actress. 🙂

I also don't think you get what I am saying here. I find the holocaust and Hitler to be very serious events. No I do not think any of this is as important because it is not real life. I just don't get why you would even bring Hitler into a conversation and make it so casual. I could understand if we were talking history..

The Scoobies frequently kidnap people or try to kill or rape them? That disc must be missing from my box set... And it's not like Spike is nice to them to begin with. He always insults them, frequently calls Buffy a bitch, etc. That is, when he isn't trying to kill them. 🙂
And I will never understand the argument 'but character X also did something bad!'. Does that make what Spike did any less worse? If not, then what's the point of bringing it up?

Buffy is a bitch to him. Buffy can be a bitch in general someone needs to tell her because obviously the scoobies won't. The point of bringing it up is because it seems no matter if Spike was good for 10 seasons everyone will bash him. I find that unfair considering how many mistakes Xander and everyone else has made. That is why I bring it up, since I can't talk to the characters.

So the Scoobies are supposed to get over attempted murder, kidnap, etc., but Spike can't get over some (justified) hostility? You're applying a double standard.
And I don't recall a member of the Fang Gang trying to kill them for years...

The fang gang had other problems that were way more important in my eyes and handled them better. I was just stating that is why I like them more. Everyone applies a double standard that was my point. I feel it seems like Spike is the one who gets most of it. I never said I didn't apply a double standard I just did it the way the scoobies do it in my eyes.

Uhm...hello? You're the one who brought up the fact that the Scoobies have also done crappy things as an argument to defend Spike. An argument I already tackled, I might add.


I don't agree (since none of the Scoobies are beings of pure evil and their transgressions are usually of a much smaller case), but even if they were being hypocritical, that doesn't have any bearing on whether or not they were right in the way they reacted. Might as well claim Buffy should never stake a vampire again because she couldn't bring herself to kill Angelus...

Uhm hello I already stated some of it to sosa. I don't want to keep repeating myself. Just because I keep repeating myself doesn't make the thing I am saying any different. You tackled it I tackled it we don't agree we won't agree so what is there to keep tackling?

That is the thing I don't see the mistakes they make any smaller than Spike. Everything has a ripple effect. All the mistakes lead to some disaster at one point or another. Also the question was do I think they were right? I said no and stated my reasons you don't have to agree. You see things different than I do. I really see no point in going over this any more because you will continue to see things the way you want and the way I want.

 

[sosa lola]

Yes Giles gave Xander a scolding but a little thing just like he gave Willow a little remark. That is the thing he is never as harsh as he should be to them but he is willing to let Wood kill Spike. See the double standard? That is why i don't always respect them and never will.

I don't think that's the same. Giles was willing to kill Dawn to save the world, he killed Ben the innocent human to save the world, that's who Giles is. In the original script, Xander was supposed to be Glory's half and Giles was going to kill him to save the world. I repeat "save the world" to emphasize that Giles is a Big Picture man who is willing to do anything to keep the world safe for the billions of people even if it meant killing his child.

When he teamed with Wood to kill Spike, he was doing it because Spike was a ticking bomb. The First declared that it was going to use Spike later and Buffy wasn't doing anything in that regard. In fact, Giles was the only one who was trying to find a way to stop the trigger and get rid of it, but Buffy and Spike weren't helping at all. That's why he joined Wood.

If I was Spike I would have done the same in season 4. He was basically a pet that they sat around and made fun of when he was around. I mean Buffy herself even did that. Being so new into what you are going to have to live like for the rest of your life is hard enough without having people always adding their opinions and insults. So do I think he went about it the wrong way? Yes but I can't blame him for not wanting to join their gang at that point. They want him to be apart of it they should treat him with respect.

I'm going to disagree here. I'm gonna post a quote from an essay I wrote a while back:

"While the Scoobies found it hard to warm up to Spike, Giles and Xander gave Spike a place to stay with free blood. Giles actually let him roam in his place without chains. Xander only chained him when he went to sleep. The decision to move out was clearly Spike's, no one kicked him out.

The Scoobies more often than not ask Spike for help and information later, in which he keeps reminding them that he's evil and that he doesn't like them and that he'd kill them one day when he finds a way to get rid of the chip. The Scoobies still trusted him and considered him on their side. Why would Giles keep blood in his fridge after Spike moved out if he didn't consider Spike one of them? Why would Willow stop Spike from committing suicide? Why would Xander put his life in danger of being hit by falling rocks to save Spike's life? In The Yoko Factor, when Spike planned to 'pretend to go back under disguise into the Initiative', Xander delivered him the clothes appropriate with the 'job'.

The Scoobies got burned for their naivety when Spike started working with Adam, and betrayed that forming trust they had for him.

Xander: Spike's working for Adam?! After all we've done--nah, I can't even act surprised.

Funnily enough, later when Spike asks for forgiveness, Giles and Willow turn their eyes to Xander as if asking his permission to forgive Spike. Xander shrugs and lets him be.

The Scoobies' attitude toward Spike had always been neutral, even Xander and Giles, it was until Buffy told them that Spike is in love with her and appeared grossed by it that Giles and Xander started to be overprotective. Personally, if Buffy returned Spike's feelings by that time, I don't think the Scoobies would have minded having him around, and even Xander will eventually loosen up, he seemed to take it well when he thought that Buffy was sleeping with Spike in S5."

 

[Marisa]

I don't think that's the same. Giles was willing to kill Dawn to save the world, he killed Ben the innocent human to save the world, that's who Giles is. In the original script, Xander was supposed to be Glory's half and Giles was going to kill him to save the world. I repeat "save the world" to emphasize that Giles is a Big Picture man who is willing to do anything to keep the world safe for the billions of people even if it meant killing his child.

Well first off I am not referring to something that was supposed to be. I rarely take the opinions of Joss and such so that doesn't really matter to me.
Second off yes but that was in season five. I was saying in season two he did nothing. Then in season six with Willow he still did nothing until he had to because it was too late. I won't see it the way you see it because I feel Giles is only willing with certain people that's the thing.

When he teamed with Wood to kill Spike, he was doing it because Spike was a ticking bomb. The First declared that it was going to use Spike later and Buffy wasn't doing anything in that regard. In fact, Giles was the only one who was trying to find a way to stop the trigger and get rid of it, but Buffy and Spike weren't helping at all. That's why he joined Wood.

Why should she do anything? Like I said earlier they only do things when it comes to certain people. If the scoobies went by ticking time bombs Angel would have died sooner, Anya and a few others. That is my point it only applies to certain people when it comes to the scoobies. That is what annoys me and that is what I don't agree with.

I'm going to disagree here. I'm gonna post a quote from an essay I wrote a while back:

"While the Scoobies found it hard to warm up to Spike, Giles and Xander gave Spike a place to stay with free blood. Giles actually let him roam in his place without chains. Xander only chained him when he went to sleep. The decision to move out was clearly Spike's, no one kicked him out.

The Scoobies more often than not ask Spike for help and information later, in which he keeps reminding them that he's evil and that he doesn't like them and that he'd kill them one day when he finds a way to get rid of the chip. The Scoobies still trusted him and considered him on their side. Why would Giles keep blood in his fridge after Spike moved out if he didn't consider Spike one of them? Why would Willow stop Spike from committing suicide? Why would Xander put his life in danger of being hit by falling rocks to save Spike's life? In The Yoko Factor, when Spike planned to 'pretend to go back under disguise into the Initiative', Xander delivered him the clothes appropriate with the 'job'.

The Scoobies got burned for their naivety when Spike started working with Adam, and betrayed that forming trust they had for him.

Xander: Spike's working for Adam?! After all we've done--nah, I can't even act surprised.

Funnily enough, later when Spike asks for forgiveness, Giles and Willow turn their eyes to Xander as if asking his permission to forgive Spike. Xander shrugs and lets him be.

The Scoobies' attitude toward Spike had always been neutral, even Xander and Giles, it was until Buffy told them that Spike is in love with her and appeared grossed by it that Giles and Xander started to be overprotective. Personally, if Buffy returned Spike's feelings by that time, I don't think the Scoobies would have minded having him around, and even Xander will eventually loosen up, he seemed to take it well when he thought that Buffy was sleeping with Spike in S5."

It doesn't really matter to me that they let him live there because when he was there in my eyes they treated him like a pet. They made fun of him often and I am sorry if someone makes fun of me they can't expect help from me that is just the way I see things.

Yes they did help him at times just like he helped them. In my eyes they did all the things they did because they needed Spike. They needed him for info they needed him for his battle skills. They always needed him especially in season five. Who was the one to get close enough to Dawn to try and save her? Spike.

Since Spike kept saying he hated them maybe they should have listened and got rid of him? Let him be and go off to do what he wants since he isn't able to kill humans. That would have been the smart thing to do on their part. Otherwise if he is constantly saying he doesn't like them and they keep him around they are asking for some things. But that was season four in season five he was struggling and he did try. That is my point around season five is when he started to try. If he is trying and he makes mistakes oh well everyone of them has get over it and move on like they do with each other.

Overall he was wrong to them and they were wrong to him. They all made mistakes. No matter what though I don't think they will ever treat him with respect which is needed to be around each other. The answer to the question is yes I think they were wrong in this situation. Like I said earlier we will have to agree to disagree because we have very different opinions on this.

 

[Whirlwind]

I don't blame them for doing that. It was understandable, he hadn't fully proved himself to them yet and was too much of a wild card. He eventually did prove himself, and I think the gang's actions then just made the moment in The Gift when Buffy invites him in more powerful.

 

[Ripper666]

I think they all were scared from him and didn't know how to handle the situation. Then there was anger and torn for him because of the danger he brings withhimself. So the nearest thing is to keep him away from you until you know what to do. Of course he felt hurt but he still did the right thing...never give up!

 

[Willow My Love]

Personally, I think they should have staked him long before it got to that point. I don't think Buffy should have EVER spoken to him again after Intervention, even if she did somewhat forgive him after Crush.