What do the writers want us to believe about Spuffy sex?

[cryptwarmer]

Well, based on the script, I think that we are to believe that she let him cuff her...but I wish they'd put a red mark on her wrist to make it clear that she had, or shown us a quick flash of her cuffed, because I think it's important enough that we shouldn't have been left wondering, or confused on the trust issue. Though, it's kind of fun to be trying to ferret it all out!

Also, in relationships "trust" is played out in so many different ways, and sometimes we trust a person in one area, yet not at all in another. And part of the issue here is that...Buffy trusts this souless vamp, but she doesn't trust HERSELF!

I mean, she lets him "do things to her", but she doesn't have any confidence in her own ability to face life, or in her decision to let him "do things to her". She is putting her trust into other things, other people, but not herself.

I definitely think there are some HOT moments in Dead things.

On the subject of her loving Spike, not denying it...more confusion, Part of her feels it would be better if she DID love Spike, at least it would explain why she was involved with him as she is, on the other hand...Spike? EWWWW.

But Spike, at this point is very much two people as well, there is the man, who genuinely loves her, would do anything for her, seeks to protect her, and there is the vamp, who teases and toys with his slayer prey, who gets off on the naughty, who invites her to roll in the dirt with him. And she is touched by the man and disgusted by the vamp aspects, and she doesn't have a word for what she feels, other than the lust, that is the one part that's easy to identify...and is the mediator between the other feelings...she can understand lusting after a good man, or after a hot vamp...but she's not sure which one she's really after and that scares the crap out of her.

 

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

Analyzing little things are great fun for me 🙂

 

[cryptwarmer]

Another Spuffy sex point that also deals with the issue of trust...did Spike ever sleep with Buffy in her bed. We are given flashes of that only during her schizo mind messed stage when the trio is trying to psych her into believing she killed Katrina. So, was that just a figment of her imagination?

Those clips are great faves in Spuffy videos...but did it ever happen.

Or was it just some fantasy, that somehow, someday they could have a gentle, loving, open relationship. That he could be her comfort in the night, not just her boink buddy?

That would have been huge, for her to let him into her bed, with Dawn and friends in the house.

I think it didn't happen, but I haven't read the scripts, and I want to know how others see this issue.

 

[Urgent Power]

Um, I'm wondering about it also. Thing is, after the flashes end, Buffy wakes up. So I think those were just dreams. If you look in the script (from what I rememebr awhile ago) Buffy kisses him on the lips hard and angry and hungrily. As if she's trying to get something from that.
I think the flashbacks from under the rug are something that did happen in real life (of Buffy's). I'd seen the dailies of Dead Things and there's much more sex happening there. The thing is, what counts as flashback and what counts as dreams and what counts as fantasies. Maybe her fantasies show up in her dreams, as her conscious. Buffy is feeling guilty while also feeling disgust, so maybe there is some connection between her killing Katrina and her sleeping with Spike. And it all blends together.

 

[Skytteflickan88]

I'm pretty sure he never sleept in her bed. Too risky, someone she knows could have walked in.

I think they might have had sex in the house (although I bet Buffy drew a line there) because they did do it in public, on the balcony, for the rush, but no sleeping. I doubt she ever slept in his company. Too risky. You know, survival instinct says;

"Don't let your guard down around the creature that can make you live for ever as a blood thirsty monster".

I actually think that's a bit weird, taht we see how Buffy doesn't protect her neck around spike. There's plenty of scenes were we see taht if spike's quick enough he could get a good bite. I guess that shows trust. Or a death wish.

 

[disturbedvanity]

I remember once Spike said "put some ice on the back of her neck...she likes that"

haha i loved it

 

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

Interesting points. It is hard to distinguish flachback from dreams in that speciifc scene. I rewatched it last night, and still I'm not sure. I think the parts where Spike's tied up, and the rug thing scene was flashback. But obviously, the thing with staking Spike and him turning into Katrina was a dream. I am very curious about that image of him in her bed, though. There's something different about that scene...I think it could have been a flashback as well, though.
Like, he could have snuck in there when she was sleeping? Seems plausible. He was invited. Yet, it's not from that night, because she's wearing a different outfit. I think the dream of Spike in her bed is her secret wish 🙂

This is how Wikipedia describes the dream:

Buffy dreams of Spike joining her in her bed and then of sex at the crypt with Spike bound by handcuffs. The figure of Spike shifts to Katrina and the scenery becomes the woods. Another shift shows Buffy lowering a stake to Spike's chest and then Katrina's eyes open as a stake is shoved into her chest.

Just another note on the handcuff thing (I know you think I'm obsessed over this lol) I showed that scene to my friend Johnny last night (whom is not a fan and has no preconceived notions) and he said it was "obvious she was rubbing her wrists". Yeah. And this is what Wikipedia says:

Buffy takes a break at her job to talk in private with Tara. While secretly rubbing at her handcuff burned wrists, Buffy admits that Spike is able to hit her, but not other humans.

So, there are people who think it is possible that she let him tie her up as well.

 

[white avenger]

Almost certainly, Spike was never in Buffy's bed, if for no other reason than that she was using him at that point as an outlet for all of her fears, frustrations, and anger at the kind of life she was being forced to live. When they were together, furniture tended to get destroyed and houses sometimes fell down. She couldn't allow anything like that in her own home. (Besides which, with the noise that they probably made, the last place that they would want to be would be a house occupied by at least 3 other people.)

 

[itsxpaperdoll]

I wanted to say something intelligent to all this, but I just enjoy reading this thread, and, more importantly, I think everything's already been said. I quite like the fact that the writers left it quite open for us, viewers, to guess how involved they were and what they did and all. I mean, if they'd explained it all, we wouldn't be talking about like this rigth now.

 

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

I wanted to say something intelligent to all this, but I just enjoy reading this thread, and, more importantly, I think everything's already been said. I quite like the fact that the writers left it quite open for us, viewers, to guess how involved they were and what they did and all. I mean, if they'd explained it all, we wouldn't be talking about like this rigth now.

So true. I love how Buffy and Spike are always being brought up and discussed. It's fun to bring new levels of interpretation to my favorite complex buffyverse relationship 🙂

 

[Urgent Power]

Skytteflickan88 disagrees: It COULD be proof that she loves Spike. To be honest, only she knows. But you know, I bumped into this guy the other day, in the supermarket, and it might have hurt him, but I'm pretty sure I don't love him...

The sentence says: "you always hurt the ones you love", not "you always love the ones you hurt". There is a difference. You don't fall in love if you hurt someone. The ones you already love you hurt.

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

Skytteflickan88 disagrees: I bumped into this guy the other day, in the supermarket, and it might have hurt him,

Ohhh I am worried about this

Skytte, is it that you are very large, lik the earth crashing into a flea, thats why you might have hurt him OR is it that you have sharp edges?

 

[Urgent Power]

I've just finished my season 6 marathon and yes, Buffy trusts Spike, no doubt anymore. Another finding: after Willow turns evil, Dawn wants to go to Spike, because Buffy wouldn't let her come with her. This is after Spike tries to rape Buffy. Buffy agrees that Dawn should stay with Spike in the meantime. She trusts him. Same thing in season 5, when Buffy brings her sister and mum to Spike so Glory wouldn't find them. And later on, Buffy lets Spike babysit Dawn, same reason.

This is all before he got his soul. So if there is still any doubt about Buffy trusting Spike, letting him tie her up... it actually makes sense to me. And I'm sure there are more scenes that prove it.

 

[Tranquillity]

Cryptwarmer said:
Another Spuffy sex point that also deals with the issue of trust...did Spike ever sleep with Buffy in her bed. We are given flashes of that only during her schizo mind messed stage when the trio is trying to psych her into believing she killed Katrina. So, was that just a figment of her imagination?

 

[Rayne]

When it comes to sex trust factors are on a different scale for most VS your usual ideals about trust in general. Buffy trusted him on many levels. Their sex was great, hot, passionate, twisted at times and a little unhealthy. But she did care for him. She just did what she did for the wrong reasons. If she would have waited or he'd had his soul it would have been different. Sometimes you don't see the true potential of what you feel for someone or something because of other factors getting in the way. She saw the potential in him but she was going through something profound and what she needed him to be didn't coincide with what she knew he could be on some level. So timing was bad. But she did say to Willow in season 7..."Why does everyone think I'm STILL in love with Spike?" Hehehe...but that not the argument here so I'm going now. 😀

 

[Tranquillity]

Ahh, i'll try again...me and my wrong button pressing!!

Cryptwarmer said:

Another Spuffy sex point that also deals with the issue of trust...did Spike ever sleep with Buffy in her bed. We are given flashes of that only during her schizo mind messed stage when the trio is trying to psych her into believing she killed Katrina. So, was that just a figment of her imagination?

I've always been of the opinion that this took place in Buffy's mind.....but, that in itself is quite interesting. Buffy imagines Spike in her bed! A sub-concious desire perhaps?

I think Buffy and Spike's sexual history makes the changing/confusing nature of their relationship quite clear. it may begin with her 'using him' but it doesn't stay that way. They first have sex in an anonymous house - this reflects the one-night-stand/using him nature of the initial encounter. Then it moves to regular sex in his crypt, which gradually becomes, as the fling continues, nicer, more comfortable. Thus it shows what we already knew, that Spike wants Buffy in his life as a lover and so improves his home to facilitate this.
And Buffy goes there all the same. has a good time by all accounts. And then by the time we get to As You Were they are having sex in her front yard. Symbolically, they are so close to her house, her life, her bed, to what she fantasised about in Dead Things. Inside the house would be the next logical step. Inside the house would represent comitment, admission of feelings - But that can't be, the vampire slayer can't have a thing with a vampire so they break up.

 

[Uncle Rory]

The sentence says: "you always hurt the ones you love", not "you always love the ones you hurt". There is a difference. You don't fall in love if you hurt someone. The ones you already love you hurt.

I agree and disagree. Do you mean to imply that it is impossible to love people or fall in love with people that you have hurt in the past? I'd just say that there is no 100% rule for Human (or inhuman) behaviour.

Maybe that was exactly the point that they were getting at in the show. Buffy uses Spike because she hates herself. Buffy breaks up with Spike. Spike tries to rape Buffy. Spike gets a soul. Spike redeems himself. Buffy realizes that although their relationship was twisted, her real feelings have nothing to do with that abuse. (assuming of course that she did love him, which I am and anyone else is free to not)

Interesting theories all around though from everyone on this thread.

Uncle Rory

 

[LadyLavinia]

The disgusting sex part with Spike wasn't anything visually appalling (though I would like to have seen the depraved Buffy/Spike sex scene) it is/was the mere fact she was having sex with a soulless demon.

Lets not forget that while Spike was helping the good guys, he was still soulless and capable of evil/morally questionable acts.

Buffy, Willow, Xander, Dawn, Anya and Giles were also capable of evil/morally questionable acts. One doesn't have to be a vampire - human soul or not - to be capable of such things. Willow and Xander certainly proved how monstrous they could be in Season 6. So did Buffy.


My only problem with Spuffy sex in S6 was that Buffy was sexually using Spike to temporarily alleviate her own depression. And Spike was willing to allow himself to be used. Other than the above, I saw nothing wrong with the kind of sex they were indulging in. There is nothing wrong with kinky sex.
[br][/br]
Edit:
[br][/br]

The disgusting sex part with Spike wasn't anything visually appalling (though I would like to have seen the depraved Buffy/Spike sex scene) it is/was the mere fact she was having sex with a soulless demon.

Lets not forget that while Spike was helping the good guys, he was still soulless and capable of evil/morally questionable acts.

Buffy, Willow, Xander, Dawn, Anya and Giles were also capable of evil/morally questionable acts. One doesn't have to be a vampire - human soul or not - to be capable of such things. Willow and Xander certainly proved how monstrous they could be in Season 6. So did Buffy.


My only problem with Spuffy sex in S6 was that Buffy was sexually using Spike to temporarily alleviate her own depression. And Spike was willing to allow himself to be used. Other than the above, I saw nothing wrong with the kind of sex they were indulging in. There is nothing wrong with kinky sex.

Spike tries to rape Buffy.

Why is it that fans and the media always point out Spike's rape attempt in "Seeing Red", yet conveniently forget that Buffy tried to rape Spike in "Gone" before he consented to having sex with her.