What exactly was Buffy mad about?

It's actually quite simple. You can break up with someone and tell them and yourself to move on, but when you see your former significant other doing just that, it doesn't sit right in the gut. It hurts. To top it off by witnessing it on a webcam is pushing the knife even deeper. Of course she was mad. Who wouldn't be? Besides, the little romp hurt Xander, as well. It hurt everyone involved in some way or another.
 
Urgent Power agrees: Yes, that says alot, Buffy was indeed in love with Spike, so here you go. If she wasn't, she wouldn't react this way
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Don't know if I agree with you there.
I had a "thing" with this boy...we weren't together, we weren't in love, but I felt for him. He started dating another girl, and it hurt, and it felt like it ripped me up inside. But that doesn't mean I was in love with him. I wasn't. Just because it upset Buffy doesn't mean she was in love with Spike. It might mean that, yes, but it's not conclusive evidence. Humans and our emotions are just too complex to sum it up like that.
 
fly on the wall said:
Don't know if I agree with you there.
I had a "thing" with this boy...we weren't together, we weren't in love, but I felt for him. He started dating another girl, and it hurt, and it felt like it ripped me up inside. But that doesn't mean I was in love with him. I wasn't. Just because it upset Buffy doesn't mean she was in love with Spike. It might mean that, yes, but it's not conclusive evidence. Humans and our emotions are just too complex to sum it up like that.
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I agree. Being jealous and hurt doesn't equal being in love. I believe Buffy fell for Spike in S7 but no before that.
 
sosa lola said:
I agree. Being jealous and hurt doesn't equal being in love. I believe Buffy fell for Spike in S7 but no before that.
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I always thought that Buffy already had feelings of love for Spike in season six, but I hated hated hated hated how it was written out, even though I found it to be necessary. But their realtionship in season seven really answers all question about if Buffy loved Spike, and she did, so end of story (not really, but I like saying that.: king 🙂
 
I agree. Being jealous and hurt doesn't equal being in love. I believe Buffy fell for Spike in S7 but no before that.
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I think she definitely had feelings for him in S6. It would have been difficult for her not to...he was the only one she could really talk to, he was the only one that could make her feel anything...but to equate that to love is ridiculous. I think Buffy's S6 relationship with Spike was disturbing, self-destructive, self-hating, and desperate...it makes me sad to watch. Still, I don't wish the S6 relationship had never happened. It was extremely important for the plot, and it really helped give S6 the slap-in-your-face sting that I love about it.
Anyways, I think my point there ^ is that I agree with you. 😛
 
fly on the wall said:
I think she definitely had feelings for him in S6. It would have been difficult for her not to...he was the only one she could really talk to, he was the only one that could make her feel anything...but to equate that to love is ridiculous. I think Buffy's S6 relationship with Spike was disturbing, self-destructive, self-hating, and desperate...it makes me sad to watch. Still, I don't wish the S6 relationship had never happened. It was extremely important for the plot, and it really helped give S6 the slap-in-your-face sting that I love about it.
Anyways, I think my point there ^ is that I agree with you. 😛
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I agree with most of it. But I would have agreed more if there wasn't THIS line in "First Date": "Why does everyone in this house think I'm still in love with Spike?!" So that just doesn't make any sense.
 
sosa lola said:
True, she even admits it in Seeing Red, but I don't think she was in love with him.
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But in love sounds better than in lust. It should have been "why does everyone think I am still in lust with Spike?"
 
Blodeuedd said:
Just because you feel it's time to move on doesn't mean your emotions have. Sometimes people do things in the heat of the moment to feel wanted and needed, to prove that they are still desirable and wanted. Does not always make it right though
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Exactly! Well said, my friend! 🙂
 
scobro said:
But in love sounds better than in lust. It should have been "why does everyone think I am still in lust with Spike?"
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No one really says stuff like that :lol: I don't think Buffy was just in lust with Spike. She did have feelings for him and she was attracted to him, but she wasn't deeply in love with him yet.
 
But I would have agreed more if there wasn't THIS line in "First Date": "Why does everyone in this house think I'm still in love with Spike?!" So that just doesn't make any sense.
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There could be many reasons for this.
1. Everyone in that house DID think she was still in love with Spike. That doesn't mean she had been in love with him at all, it's just what people thought.
2. "In lust" sounds too strange.
3. It was an exaggeration. It would have been awkward to say "Why does everyone in this house think I still want to have raunchy sex with Spike and exploit him in order to make myself feel better about being ripped out of heaven?!" I strongly believe this one's the true one. I completely don't agree with the notion that Buffy loved Spike S6...and if she started to love him S7, I think this is a really crude, lazy way to tell us. You notice that no one in the house faltered, asked, "You loved him?" or anything like that. I believe they took it to be an exaggeration, and I believe the viewers were supposed to, too.
 
fly on the wall said:
There could be many reasons for this.
1. Everyone in that house DID think she was still in love with Spike. That doesn't mean she had been in love with him at all, it's just what people thought.
2. "In lust" sounds too strange.
3. It was an exaggeration. It would have been awkward to say "Why does everyone in this house think I still want to have raunchy sex with Spike and exploit him in order to make myself feel better about being ripped out of heaven?!" I strongly believe this one's the true one. I completely don't agree with the notion that Buffy loved Spike S6...and if she started to love him S7, I think this is a really crude, lazy way to tell us. You notice that no one in the house faltered, asked, "You loved him?" or anything like that. I believe they took it to be an exaggeration, and I believe the viewers were supposed to, too.
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The answer is in your answer: Everyone in that house DID think she was still in love with Spike.
You said it yourself-"Did think she was still". The key word here is "still". It's not "Why does everyone still think I'm in love", but "why does everyone think I'm still.

I don't think it was an exaggeration, I think she said the truth without thinking about what she was going to say first. It slipped. Notice she doesn't hesitate and doesn't correct herself, doesn't make clear she meant something else.

In "Dead Things" Tara asks Buffy if she loves Spike. Buffy doesn't answer. It might be anything, which means it could go either way, if she did or didn't love him. Also, there are points in season 7 where people say things. The First in Caleb's form in Chosen, he asks Buffy: "Then why aren't you asleep in your dead love's arms"? She doesn't say: "He is NOT my lover/boyfriend. In the past, many people thought Spike was Buffy's boyfriend, and she hurried to correct them that he is not. It's not the case here.

So you, key word is "still". That's my point in this speech.
 
You're all right. This is what I call the never-ending discussion....we will NEVER agree on if Buff loved Spike or not. So why discuss it anymore? 🙂
 
LifeIsJustThis said:
You're all right. This is what I call the never-ending discussion....we will NEVER agree on if Buff loved Spike or not. So why discuss it anymore? 🙂
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'cause them damn Bangels keep pressing the issue with their fixations on Ol' Mopey being endgame for the Buffster. :hihi: 😛
 
Urgent Power said:
The answer is in your answer: Everyone in that house DID think she was still in love with Spike.
You said it yourself-"Did think she was still". The key word here is "still". It's not "Why does everyone still think I'm in love", but "why does everyone think I'm still.

I don't think it was an exaggeration, I think she said the truth without thinking about what she was going to say first. It slipped. Notice she doesn't hesitate and doesn't correct herself, doesn't make clear she meant something else.

In "Dead Things" Tara asks Buffy if she loves Spike. Buffy doesn't answer. It might be anything, which means it could go either way, if she did or didn't love him. Also, there are points in season 7 where people say things. The First in Caleb's form in Chosen, he asks Buffy: "Then why aren't you asleep in your dead love's arms"? She doesn't say: "He is NOT my lover/boyfriend. In the past, many people thought Spike was Buffy's boyfriend, and she hurried to correct them that he is not. It's not the case here.

So you, key word is "still". That's my point in this speech.
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Well said my fellow Spuffy buddy! 🙂
 
The answer is in your answer: Everyone in that house DID think she was still in love with Spike.
You said it yourself-"Did think she was still". The key word here is "still". It's not "Why does everyone still think I'm in love", but "why does everyone think I'm still.
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Well, that's assuming I believed reason #1, which I don't.

But let's say I did. If the Scoobies believed Buffy loved Spike, then in this episode they would believe she STILL loved Spike. Does their belief make it so? I don't see how the way she fit in the word "still" means she loved him. It just meant that THE SCOOBIES MAY HAVE THOUGHT she loved him before, and still loved him then.


I don't think it was an exaggeration, I think she said the truth without thinking about what she was going to say first. It slipped. Notice she doesn't hesitate and doesn't correct herself, doesn't make clear she meant something else.
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If anything, I think this further proves that she didn't love him. All along, Buffy was vehement about NOT loving Spike. Whenever anyone asked, she would say, "No, I feel for him," etc. Had she actually let something slip, I think she would have been embarrassed, I think she would have covered it up or tried to convince them it was an exaggeration. She doesn't. Because it wasn't confessional in nature. IMO, it was just an exaggeration.

In "Dead Things" Tara asks Buffy if she loves Spike. Buffy doesn't answer. It might be anything, which means it could go either way, if she did or didn't love him. Also, there are points in season 7 where people say things. The First in Caleb's form in Chosen, he asks Buffy: "Then why aren't you asleep in your dead love's arms"? She doesn't say: "He is NOT my lover/boyfriend. In the past, many people thought Spike was Buffy's boyfriend, and she hurried to correct them that he is not. It's not the case here.
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Doesn't Buffy answer, tearfully, with, "I'm using him"? She wasn't just eerily silent. To me, her not answering wasn't a confession. I took her response to mean, "No, I don't love him, I'm just using him."

Does Caleb say "dead love" or "dead lover"? It doesn't particularly matter, but "dead love" sounds weird to me. Anyway, "lover" can be someone of a sexual nature only. In fact, whenever I hear "lover", I think, sex partner. I don't think, boyfriend. I realize it can be used either way, but that's the point, it can be used either way.
In Conversations with Dead People, the vampire (cannot remember his name right now, gahh) asks Buffy, "Your last boyfriend...was he a vampire?" Buffy doesn't correct him, either. And...so what? Does "boyfriend" equate "in love with"? I know plenty of people who have dated someone they weren't in love with...if you could even call the Spuffy S6 relationship "dating."

You may think, because I'm arguing this, that I don't think Buffy loved Spike. That's not true. I think when she told him in Chosen that she loved him, she meant it. But I do NOT in any way think she loved him S6...I don't see how she possibly could have. That's why I argue the "still in love with him" point so strongly.
 
Kana
Kana
with much agreementy goodness
fly on the wall said:
You may think, because I'm arguing this, that I don't think Buffy loved Spike. That's not true. I think when she told him in Chosen that she loved him, she meant it. But I do NOT in any way think she loved him S6...I don't see how she possibly could have. That's why I argue the "still in love with him" point so strongly.
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Glad to hear that m'dear. 🙂
 
fly on the wall said:
Well, that's assuming I believed reason #1, which I don't.

But let's say I did. If the Scoobies believed Buffy loved Spike, then in this episode they would believe she STILL loved Spike. Does their belief make it so? I don't see how the way she fit in the word "still" means she loved him. It just meant that THE SCOOBIES MAY HAVE THOUGHT she loved him before, and still loved him then.



If anything, I think this further proves that she didn't love him. All along, Buffy was vehement about NOT loving Spike. Whenever anyone asked, she would say, "No, I feel for him," etc. Had she actually let something slip, I think she would have been embarrassed, I think she would have covered it up or tried to convince them it was an exaggeration. She doesn't. Because it wasn't confessional in nature. IMO, it was just an exaggeration.


Doesn't Buffy answer, tearfully, with, "I'm using him"? She wasn't just eerily silent. To me, her not answering wasn't a confession. I took her response to mean, "No, I don't love him, I'm just using him."

Does Caleb say "dead love" or "dead lover"? It doesn't particularly matter, but "dead love" sounds weird to me. Anyway, "lover" can be someone of a sexual nature only. In fact, whenever I hear "lover", I think, sex partner. I don't think, boyfriend. I realize it can be used either way, but that's the point, it can be used either way.
In Conversations with Dead People, the vampire (cannot remember his name right now, gahh) asks Buffy, "Your last boyfriend...was he a vampire?" Buffy doesn't correct him, either. And...so what? Does "boyfriend" equate "in love with"? I know plenty of people who have dated someone they weren't in love with...if you could even call the Spuffy S6 relationship "dating."

You may think, because I'm arguing this, that I don't think Buffy loved Spike. That's not true. I think when she told him in Chosen that she loved him, she meant it. But I do NOT in any way think she loved him S6...I don't see how she possibly could have. That's why I argue the "still in love with him" point so strongly.
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I was going to write a long explanation why you're wrong and why I'm right, and give many other examples and explanations about why you're wrong and I'm right, but I realized there is no point wasting my time on that, because we're not going to agree with each other, so it would just be stupid. So I'll just say that I don't agree with you and you have the right to say you don't agree with me. Nothing will change. So for the record, I think Buffy did love Spike. Needn't say more.
 
fly on the wall said:
Well, that's assuming I believed reason #1, which I don't.

But let's say I did. If the Scoobies believed Buffy loved Spike, then in this episode they would believe she STILL loved Spike. Does their belief make it so? I don't see how the way she fit in the word "still" means she loved him. It just meant that THE SCOOBIES MAY HAVE THOUGHT she loved him before, and still loved him then.



If anything, I think this further proves that she didn't love him. All along, Buffy was vehement about NOT loving Spike. Whenever anyone asked, she would say, "No, I feel for him," etc. Had she actually let something slip, I think she would have been embarrassed, I think she would have covered it up or tried to convince them it was an exaggeration. She doesn't. Because it wasn't confessional in nature. IMO, it was just an exaggeration.


Doesn't Buffy answer, tearfully, with, "I'm using him"? She wasn't just eerily silent. To me, her not answering wasn't a confession. I took her response to mean, "No, I don't love him, I'm just using him."

Does Caleb say "dead love" or "dead lover"? It doesn't particularly matter, but "dead love" sounds weird to me. Anyway, "lover" can be someone of a sexual nature only. In fact, whenever I hear "lover", I think, sex partner. I don't think, boyfriend. I realize it can be used either way, but that's the point, it can be used either way.
In Conversations with Dead People, the vampire (cannot remember his name right now, gahh) asks Buffy, "Your last boyfriend...was he a vampire?" Buffy doesn't correct him, either. And...so what? Does "boyfriend" equate "in love with"? I know plenty of people who have dated someone they weren't in love with...if you could even call the Spuffy S6 relationship "dating."

You may think, because I'm arguing this, that I don't think Buffy loved Spike. That's not true. I think when she told him in Chosen that she loved him, she meant it. But I do NOT in any way think she loved him S6...I don't see how she possibly could have. That's why I argue the "still in love with him" point so strongly.
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I generally agree. I think at the very least it can be argued that she didn't love him in S6 but my main issue is, if First Date was her first admission, why was it so without sentiment? Are we to believe that she went from being adamant that she couldn't love Spike to admitting it to her self and then acting as if it's the normal expected thing. I would have thought it would be a big deal, admitting her true feelings for Spike. Now others argue that it was a slip of the tongue that revealed her true feelings. I sometimes however believe a slip of the tongue can be just that.

As I've said before, Spuffy deserves more than this. The first time she said she loved Riley or Angel, it was heartfelt but this was played out as a joke. That's why I choose to think it was a slip of the tongue otherwise, I'd feel even more sorry for Spike. I, too, like the idea that Chosen is where is finally admits her true feelings. It's heartfelt and beautiful.
 
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