What I Hate About Feminist Fiction

[EffyStonem]

I disagree wholeheartedly. Xander's sexual experience with Faith had dire consequences on him. He thought they had a connection and was rewarded with Faith attempting to rape and later murder him.

...Yeah, looking back, Xander and Faith might not have been the greatest point to make :S I was more thinking about the direct morning-after consequences, of which Xander had none.

Xander's sex life with Anya was healthy for both Xander and Anya. Both Xander ( male ) and Anya ( female ) didn't suffer any bad consequences. Also, Buffy sleeping with Riley had no bad consequences. Ditto Willow with Oz, Tara and Kennedy.

All of these examples are not of casual sex but of sex within the confines of healthy, committed relationships. And this was my point - it seems in the Whedonverse females are only allowed to have fun, safe, inconsequential sex when in a relationship, and any female who doesn't is shamed and/or looked down upon (Faith) or made to suffer horrible consequences for her actions (Buffy & Cordy) while none of the males are treated the same way.

 

[Ethan Reigns]

All of these examples are not of casual sex but of sex within the confines of healthy, committed relationships. And this was my point - it seems in the Whedonverse females are only allowed to have fun, safe, inconsequential sex when in a relationship, and any female who doesn't is shamed and/or looked down upon (Faith) or made to suffer horrible consequences for her actions (Buffy & Cordy) while none of the males are treated the same way.

Doesn't quite work that way for Oz and Veruca. Oz almost gets Willow killed and does end up killing Veruca. But if that is only regarded as the consequence of being a werewolf:

Riley's trip to the all-you-can-drink moron bar also had a price - even if it was not explicitly sex, it certainly had all the hallmarks of a brothel.

Angel and Spike were both sired by girls they were interested in.

Xander does pick up a demon in the building supplies store in First Date 7ABB14 as casual sex then ends up cut up and bleeding over the Seal of Danthazar. He also ends up with the Inca Mummy Girl and the Praying Mantis woman, all visited on him as a result of his sexual interest.

The story is about Buffy and her friends. It stands to reason that she would be the focus of dating disasters followed by those of her friends. In general, Willow is not in as much danger as Buffy or Xander and others only suffer to the extent of their importance to the plot. I don't see much feminist or anti-feminist bias in either direction in regard to relationship disasters. And it certainly follows the old saying about relationships:

"Relationships are run by the most insane person in the relationship."

 

[EffyStonem]

Riley's trip to the all-you-can-drink moron bar also had a price - even if it was not explicitly sex, it certainly had all the hallmarks of a brothel.

Yes, and Riley is allowed to get off scot-free while the blame for his exploites is laid at Buffy's feet by both himself and Xander.

Angel and Spike were both sired by girls they were interested in.

However neither of them had sex with Darla or Drusilla before they were sired, therefore this example doesn't really fit.

Xander does pick up a demon in the building supplies store in First Date 7ABB14 as casual sex then ends up cut up and bleeding over the Seal of Danthazar. He also ends up with the Inca Mummy Girl and the Praying Mantis woman, all visited on him as a result of his sexual interest.

Once again no sex takes place. They go to coffee, that's it.

 

[Ethan Reigns]

Yes, and Riley is allowed to get off scot-free while the blame for his exploites is laid at Buffy's feet by both himself and Xander.


However neither of them had sex with Darla or Drusilla before they were sired, therefore this example doesn't really fit.


Once again no sex takes place. They go to coffee, that's it.

Riley doesn't get off scot-free. He loses her. She does not have to accept his explanation that it is her fault and she doesn't. Xander points out the obvious: she is shutting people out of her life and if she wants Riley, she should go back and get him, otherwise, no need. It is revealed in As You Were 6ABB15 that it took him a year to get over her.

Faith in Who Are You 4ABB16 has sex with Riley and suffers no consequences other than what was intended - a good time with Riley and bad news for Buffy.

When Kennedy leaves the group being taught by Anya, Faith tells her that she can say, "I had him first" about Xander. Apparently no bad memories or consequences there.

In Chosen 7ABB22, Faith has sex with Wood and doesn't suffer any consequences other than having him say it didn't rock his world. Again, no disaster and the prospect is raised that it could continue.

In Gone 6ABB11, Buffy gets turned invisible by the Trio's ray gun and heads over to Spike's place and has sex with him (in fact, forces him to have sex and effectively rapes him). We see Spike doing pushups in bed, which are obviously (to us) sex but he tries to spin this as exercise. Again, no consequences other than two episodes later in Dead Things, she takes out her emotions again, violently, on Spike. Spike returns the favour in Seeing Red 6ABB19 but by this time, she has dumped him and that makes it attempted rape. You could consider this to be a consequence of her actions declaring this kind of behaviour to be acceptable, although there is no excuse for him to continue presing the attack when she objects. There is a dilemma - do you consider the AR to be a consequence of her previous actions or is it the wanton action of a demon with no regard for what came before? If it is a consequence, that would tend to let Spike off the hook. If not, then you can say her sexploits with Spike had no consequences.

In the Whedonverse, the sex act is not necessary to put someone in danger of bad consequences. Just expressing an interest is enough. In the Whedonverse, like politics, you should never waste a good crisis. Shock value is everything. Unexpected consequences are more desireable than instant karma.

 

[sosa lola]

...Yeah, looking back, Xander and Faith might not have been the greatest point to make :S I was more thinking about the direct morning-after consequences, of which Xander had none.

I'd argue that Xander's first time is similar to Buffy's with Parker. Faith was in it for sex, Xander thought it meant more than sex, and he wanted to cuddle but she kicked him out directly after sex. Parker was in it for sex, Buffy thought it meant something more, and he kicked her out the morning after.

 

[EffyStonem]

Riley doesn't get off scot-free. He loses her. She does not have to accept his explanation that it is her fault and she doesn't. Xander points out the obvious: she is shutting people out of her life and if she wants Riley, she should go back and get him, otherwise, no need. It is revealed in As You Were 6ABB15 that it took him a year to get over her.

There are so many things wrong with this paragraph. Firstly, Riley doesn't "lose" Buffy. He cheats on her, sexually undermines her and then leaves (by his own decision). He puts the onis entirely on her, alleviating himself of any blame. And what happens after he leaves? He gets to go back into the Army (where he's always belonged) and then he gets to marry miss Mary Sue Sam and live happily ever after.

Faith in Who Are You 4ABB16 has sex with Riley and suffers no consequences other than what was intended - a good time with Riley and bad news for Buffy.

Yes, but Faith's promiscuity has always been portrayed as a "bad" thing. Plus my original statement was no "good" female is allowed to have casual sex. At this point, Faith is still portrayed a "evil", therefore this example, again, does not fit with my original point.

In Chosen 7ABB22, Faith has sex with Wood and doesn't suffer any consequences other than having him say it didn't rock his world. Again, no disaster and the prospect is raised that it could continue.

However, it is heavily implied that a relationship is starting between the two, therefore the sex was not entirely casual.

In Gone 6ABB11, Buffy gets turned invisible by the Trio's ray gun and heads over to Spike's place and has sex with him (in fact, forces him to have sex and effectively rapes him).

Huh "“ whaaa -? Buffy doesn't force anything on Spike in that scene. Spike is a willing participant. Additionally, Buffy's sexual relationship with Spike is consistently shown as a bad thing (I actually agree with that, not because it's casual sex but because it's severely abusive casual sex)

There is a dilemma - do you consider the AR to be a consequence of her previous actions or is it the wanton action of a demon with no regard for what came before? If it is a consequence, that would tend to let Spike off the hook. If not, then you can say her sexploits with Spike had no consequences.

No, no, no to the victim-blaming. The attempted rape was not and never will be Buffy's fault. And the consequences to her having sex with Spike are the complete loss of her self-worth and a severe beating to her already-fragile psyche. And, as I said before, her and Spike having sex is portrayed as being a bad thing.