What would this season look like with Cordelia instead of Spike

[Faded90]

I think Cordy’s character was destroyed in S3 rather than S4. Her story is completely finished when she ‘ascends’ and they wrote her into a corner with all of the Saint Cordy stuff. We get told she’s apparently too saintly for this world, the Buffyverse world that has a number of kickass women but apparently Cordy has surpassed them all for well reasons. They then have to retcon this in S4. She was no longer the interesting, snarky character with her own passions and interests. When she becomes solely Angel’s cheerleader and nothing more they washed her character out far too much to continue to be an interesting character ongoing. The only way her character would work in S5 would be if they regressed her to her pre S3 self - which I personally would have preferred but would have made no sense story wise

 

[Stake fodder]

While Spike was an interesting addition to this season and he definitely had chemistry with Angel I wonder what this season would have looked like if Cordelia was still present. Her arc was pretty much put on pause after season 3 in favor of the Jasmine takeover so it would have been interesting to see what they could have come up with for her. What do you guys think this season would look like if she was a part of the main cast?

If Spike had not been in the season, Gunn could have remained the "muscle", since that was a role that Spike largely took over. While I think Cordelia would not have agreed to a mind upgrade by W&H, I think she could have been the one who "went corporate" instead of Gunn. She had experience running the AI office, so could have become a sort of executive director of W&H, weeding out evil personnel and shutting down the more questionable divisions, instead of Angel doing those things himself.

It might have been an interesting dynamic professionally between her and Angel, sometimes being on the same side of how things should be run, and sometimes not. But I think the real difference would have been Cordy's influence on Angel, which might have kept him from getting as dark in the season as he did.

I'm not sure where their romance would have gone. Of course Cordy would no longer remember Connor, but Angel would know what had happened between them, and even though it wasn't really Cordy, I'm sure that would have affected his feelings for her.

Lastly, Harmony and Cordelia playing off each other might have been fun. I don't know if it would have worked as well as having Spike on, but it's a fun thought experiment!

 

[hoponlilmama]

I think it would've been great to have both Spike and Cordy on s5. The barbs they would've traded would've been funny.

 

[DagonSphere]

@thetopher
Cordelia's time was done long before this. Storywise it was in To Shanshu in LA. After that there was no where else to go and the writers struggled with keeping her character relevant to Angels story.
Most of the time she was simply the damsel in distress put in danger to be saved by Angel. There were more than few episodes of a villain putting Cordy in danger so Angel gets mad and then kills said villain.
In S2 the interesting stories were with Darla. Cordy was a just in a bikini to be gawked at and rescued by Angel.
In S3 some of the most best parts of that season were when she wasn't even on the show and when she came back it felt awkward.
She was on the show due to Greenwalt loving the character (and actress) and once he walked the writing was on the wall for her.
Now was how it handled really crappy, yes but her time was long done before S4 and she wouldn't have worked in S5.
I think Your Welcome as an episode is overrated anyway although the actual send off at the end is good.

I don't think she was done so early. I think "That Vision Thing" and "Birthday" are two of her most pivotal episodes. We are also getting scenes of her doing sword training with Angel. Her deciding to become part demon was a fantastic story decision that could have made her more of an equal to Buffy or Doyle and it had enormous potential to let her become a champion of her own. Sadly they dropped the ball right there, Cordelia just had some random glowy moments and then ascended to become a higher being. At the same time turning her into Angel's love interest kinda doomed her. I wonder why her storyline mid-season 3 became so messy and why they decided to take this particular path. David Greenwalt was still there at the time. The writers of season 4 hated her ascension, I wonder what David's take on it was and whether it was initially planned as a thing that they would eventually step back from.

I think Cordelia would have accepted the Wolfram & Hart offer just like everyone else. Even as she grew throughout the seasons, she was always more materialistic and enthralled by the glamorous side of LA. That being said, similar to Gunn, there wasn't really a space for her there outside of them giving her the acting career she always wanted.

 

[silvermoon]

i actually started watching some of the crossover episodes of angel although i wasnt a huge fan of the show. i honestly thought Spike was not really a necessary addition to the show. it created conflict between himself and Angel, but honestly i would have preferred that Cordy would have stayed. Spike didn't fit in that well I felt like. Harmony was a hoot , but Spike always felt less than seamless when he was on Angel.

 

[hoponlilmama]

i actually started watching some of the crossover episodes of angel although i wasnt a huge fan of the show. i honestly thought Spike was not really a necessary addition to the show. it created conflict between himself and Angel, but honestly i would have preferred that Cordy would have stayed. Spike didn't fit in that well I felt like. Harmony was a hoot , but Spike always felt less than seamless when he was on Angel.

How about if Spike AND Cordy were there together? I would've loved it.
I mean I'm probably biased as a Spike fan, but I loved him on AtS and think he was a better fit with the gang.

 

[silvermoon]

Ha, that's actually a really intriguing idea! I'm a Spuffy gal . I do give DB credit on Angel, he was a lot more interesting than on Buffy.

 

[AlphaFoxtrot]

Joss would make her wear a blue short skirt, that's for darn sure.

But really, I suspect that the network wanted the show to appeal to a younger audience, which is why Eve replaced Lilah. I could see that affecting Charisma.

 

[DeepBlueJoy]

Well, Lilah was way more interesting than whiny immortal eve. Eve was such a 'popular girl' and that is not a compliment. Eve was colourless, personality free and annoying. Lilah was a conniving bitch, but like Cordy she was smart and made me smile. Eve made me want to kill things and defenestrate things. Eve was more nepo spoiled kid than anything else. I liked Knox better thsn her and he murdered my girl Fred.

A blue skirt?

___________

Seriously, if Cordelia had been present and herself they would never have gone to Wolfram and Hart. She would have smelled that trap! And she would have handed Angel his head if he had considered such a bonehead move. And Spike would have likely supported her. He did try to get out of Wolfram and Hart. Pity his mentor was Lindsay.

 

[AlphaFoxtrot]

No, I am saying that Cordelia would have been selected as the vessel for Illyria. Because Joss does horrible things to the character.

 

[hoponlilmama]

Ha, that's actually a really intriguing idea! I'm a Spuffy gal

I know you are, but that's not what I meant. I just meant the both of them working together at AtS. 😉

. I do give DB credit on Angel, he was a lot more interesting than on Buffy.

That doesn't really have anything to do with what I asked, but thanks for the input! 🙂

 

[silvermoon]

I know you are, but that's not what I meant. I just meant the both of them working together at AtS. 😉


That doesn't really have anything to do with what I asked, but thanks for the input! 🙂

yeah i think i understand what you meant, sure, my pleasure : )

 

[Btvs fan]

Well, Lilah was way more interesting than whiny immortal eve. Eve was such a 'popular girl' and that is not a compliment. Eve was colourless, personality free and annoying. Lilah was a conniving bitch, but like Cordy she was smart and made me smile. Eve made me want to kill things and defenestrate things. Eve was more nepo spoiled kid than anything else. I liked Knox better thsn her and he murdered my girl Fred.

A blue skirt?

___________

Seriously, if Cordelia had been present and herself they would never have gone to Wolfram and Hart. She would have smelled that trap! And she would have handed Angel his head if he had considered such a bonehead move. And Spike would have likely supported her. He did try to get out of Wolfram and Hart. Pity his mentor was Lindsay.

Stephanie Romanov had big issues with Joss and thats why she left I believe and why they had Eve in S5 instead

 

[DeepBlueJoy]

Stephanie Romanov had big issues with Joss and thats why she left I believe and why they had Eve in S5 instead

What a tragedy that Joss alienated so many talented people. I wonder just what the franchise might have grown into had that not been the case. There were so many interesting ideas and a lot of the cast and other folks seemed to enjoy working with each other.