Question Why Bangel Doesn't Work For You?

[Kelsey]

First, I tried reading through this thread and had to stop. I hate when shipper wars get rude and sarcastic and posters disrespect each other. And I'm not sure why people started arguing in the first place. This was a place to explain NON-Bangel opinions; if you don't want to read them, don't come into the thread. Otherwise you're just looking for a fight.

Now, I still want to help Kean with her article, if she's still writing it. So here's my take:

Bangel was beautiful in its tragedy. It was very much a tragic story about doomed love. Like Romeo and Juliet, they fell in love very quickly and spent the rest of their time being miserable and torn. The problem is, I've seen loves like that before. And don't get me wrong, I enjoyed it during its time, but it wasn't something new. Angel was a brooding, guilt-ridden hero who fell in love with a young, strong, beautiful girl. Their were obstacles in the way, but their love was strong enough that they wanted to overcome them--and when they couldn't, their hearts broke. There IS a poetry to that, but it's not sustainable. Angel loved Buffy, and Spike is not better than Angel. But Angel, in my opinion, is not better for Buffy. Their love was built around their difficulties in a way, and it was aching and hard all the time.

Don't get me wrong, Angel may become human and go find Buffy, and they may be together. I certainly have no idea what Joss has planned. But they're both different people, and they'd essentially have to fall in love again as the stronger, older people they are now. It would be a much different relationship than the original Bangel.

 

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

Oh, hapiness is not good anymore? It's not interesting to watch anymore? God, in what kind of world do we live in?

It is a true fact that unhappy couples that have signifigant challenges are more interesting to watch on television. Perhaps this is at the root of why Joss can't allow any of his couples to be happy for too long.

Didn't Joss once say something to the effect that the sadder Buffy was, the better his show was?

*goes to look for quote*

---------- Post added at 11:38 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:36 AM ----------

lol what Buffy were you watching because Bangel was not all "happy and dandy" 😛

But if you are comparing it to Spuffy, then I can see why you would think that. We all know Spuffy was way darker than Bangel 😀

I don't know about this. Bangel was plenty dark. After all, Buffy did stab him in the chest and send him to Hell.

And if you include Angelus in your assessment of Bangel, the darkness is pretty overpowering, I'd say. 🙂

I'd also like to agree with what Kelsey said above.

 

[GrrArghx]

I don't know about this. Bangel was plenty dark. After all, Buffy did stab him in the chest and send him to Hell.

And if you include Angelus in your assessment of Bangel, the darkness is pretty overpowering, I'd say. 🙂

I was more and less just comparing the two's actual romantic relationships 🙂 Not either's entire relationship over the course of the show.

I admit Bangel was dark, I'm not denying it. lol I love Bangel for all that it is; the good and the bad, but compared to Spuffy, to me, I can see why someone would say it's all 'happy & dandy'. 😛 Spike and Buffy beat the crap out of each other (well atleast Buffy beat up Spike 😛), they used each other, and etc... I'd say that's darker.

 

[Emzzie]

First, I tried reading through this thread and had to stop. I hate when shipper wars get rude and sarcastic and posters disrespect each other. And I'm not sure why people started arguing in the first place. This was a place to explain NON-Bangel opinions; if you don't want to read them, don't come into the thread. Otherwise you're just looking for a fight.
Now, I still want to help Kean with her article, if she's still writing it. So here's my take:

Bangel was beautiful in its tragedy. It was very much a tragic story about doomed love. Like Romeo and Juliet, they fell in love very quickly and spent the rest of their time being miserable and torn. The problem is, I've seen loves like that before. And don't get me wrong, I enjoyed it during its time, but it wasn't something new. Angel was a brooding, guilt-ridden hero who fell in love with a young, strong, beautiful girl. Their were obstacles in the way, but their love was strong enough that they wanted to overcome them--and when they couldn't, their hearts broke. There IS a poetry to that, but it's not sustainable. Angel loved Buffy, and Spike is not better than Angel. But Angel, in my opinion, is not better for Buffy. Their love was built around their difficulties in a way, and it was aching and hard all the time.

Don't get me wrong, Angel may become human and go find Buffy, and they may be together. I certainly have no idea what Joss has planned. But they're both different people, and they'd essentially have to fall in love again as the stronger, older people they are now. It would be a much different relationship than the original Bangel.

I love this post and agree with it 100 percent. First off, you guys know how angry I was that this thread has become a ship war. If you like Bangel DONT come here to defend it because this is not the thread for you. This is a place for Spuffies or Brileys or any person who was not a fan of Bangel to explain their reasons for not liking it. Not a place to explain why you did like it or argue with and become sarcastic about people who came here for the right reasons. I'm surprised that even after we complained about these happenings that people still think it is ok to continue.

I LOVE the way you explained Bangel's love. It is pretty much how I felt about it. This is how we should be explaining our reasons. This post was respectful, insightful, intelligant and had valid points. Great job Kelsey and I look forward to more of your posts 🙂

 

[Kelsey]

Your last point? total agreement and I would agrue that Buffy and Angel have re-fallen in love with each other about 4 times already.

I don't really know how they've done that, since they see each other rarely, but I admit it's possible. The thing is, I never really saw a reason they were in love. I don't know if I can explain this in a way that makes sense, but there was no build-up to that love. Even Angel says (paraphrased, because I don't have quotes like this memorized 😛), "I saw you and I loved you." To me, that wanes a little in comparison to, "I've seen your kindness and your strength, I've seen the best and the worst of you and I understand with perfect clarity exactly what you are."

Oh, damn. I started doing the Spike/Angel thing. It's so hard not to! But okay, what I'm trying to say is, Buffy and Angel's relationship was about the hardships. Just like Romeo and Juliet was about the tragedy of two star-crossed lovers. I mean, both couples more or less fell in love in one moment! I didn't feel that Angel and Buffy had that much to them separate from that.

 

[Wishing Oceans]

I was more and less just comparing the two's actual romantic relationships 🙂 Not either's entire relationship over the course of the show.

I admit Bangel was dark, I'm not denying it. lol I love Bangel for all that it is; the good and the bad, but compared to Spuffy, to me, I can see why someone would say it's all 'happy & dandy'. 😛 Spike and Buffy beat the crap out of each other (well atleast Buffy beat up Spike 😛), they used each other, and etc... I'd say that's darker.

I'd have to disagree. 🙂 Many Bangels say that Spuffy was a dark and dangerous relationship, but it really wasn't. Spuffy was light, and fun, and gentle, and sweet, and loving, and many other good things that Bangel wasn't. True, they did go through a darker stage, but as I explained in my thread here(Spuffy: S6 Style - Buffy-Boards), it was more than just darkness, and an integral part of their relationship with themselves and each other. I'm happy, really. Spuffy was everything I've ever wanted in a couple. She was dark with him when she couldn't be with anyone else and he was sweet with her when he couldn't be with anyone else. He challenged her like nobody else ever had. He brought out a passion in her that she herself probably didn't even know existed. He helped her to feel again, in more ways than one. Plus, S7 was unbelievable light and happy. I almost thought they were being a bit too nice to each other. They were much happier together than Buffy and Angel ever were.

Now, I know what you're thinking. You don't think of S7 Spuffy as part of their relationship because you thought they were just friends. Well, that issue of controversy was addressed in my thread here (Spuffy S7: Friends or Lovers? - Buffy-Boards) if you'd like to take a peak. 😀

 

[Kean]

I don't really know how they've done that, since they see each other rarely, but I admit it's possible. The thing is, I never really saw a reason they were in love.

I don't think you are gona find a reason hun. Love doesn't work that way. It's not logical and you certainly cannot earn someone being in love with you, it just happens. Love just is. That's why it is so special, you don't get to make a choice, you're chosen.

I don't know if I can explain this in a way that makes sense, but there was no build-up to that love. Even Angel says (paraphrased, because I don't have quotes like this memorized 😛), "I saw you and I loved you." To me, that wanes a little in comparison to, "I've seen your kindness and your strength, I've seen the best and the worst of you and I understand with perfect clarity exactly what you are."

That understanding though doesn't earn Spike Buffy's undying love. Whatever she feels for him,if we are being honest we know it isn't as strong as what she feels for Angel. Buffy only started to care for Spike when he stopped trying to make her care.

As far as the build up goes I don't get that at all because to me Bangel was simmering away for almost a year before you could call them a couple. That's where my comment on re-falling in love comes from. As I see it there is a defined progression of their relationship. As they graduate (for lack of a better word) on to the next level, to me, they fall into a deeper level of love with each other.


Level 1: Ideals or "Love at First Sight". To be honest I take the whole Love at First Sight thing with a pinch of salt but there is obviously an emotional connection sprung up immediately between the two. I have always seen this as Buffy and Angel being in love with the "idea" of each other, before they had any clue of who the other really was.

Level 2: First Love. This comes about around the time of the episode "Angel". They had gradually been getting to know each other over the passing months. With that their attraction and feelings for each grew and culminated with that episode. It was tentative, maybe even innocent, but most importantly it was the dispelling of ideas and the beginng of real, honestly expressed emotion.

Level 3: Carpe Diem. This is Buffy and Angel from the beginning of season 2. They now really know each other, despite noble intentions of ignorance their feelings have continued to grow and they are innocent enough to believe that they can have happily ever after like normal people. They aren't shy around each other anymore, infact, they begin to fight for each other, fight for how they feel, indidvidually. They begin to revel in their feelings of love for one another, it fills them up and this in turn makes them feel brave, feel safe. They are lost in love.

Level 4: Miles To Go. This is the period after Angel's return from Hell when they are arguably, the most deeply in love. While they no longer have the innocence of the earlier stages they have something much more potent: the experience of life without each other, without love essentially. They value what they have all the more. They know that any second their world could end them and so know how precious this time they have is. Also, they are now certain of the other's feelings, physically they are much more aware and intune with each other and most of all they are the only two people who could understand how the other feels about the events of the year before and so they only ones to offer the other solace. This stage is all the more cruel becaue emotionally they have never been closer but never has the need for distance between them been so pronounced. They've grown up.

It's this grown up love that allows them to separate on fairly civil terms. I think part of the reason for that is the knowledge of the two previous years where they learned in the hardest ways that the end of a relationship does not equate to the end of love.

Wow, I've rambled! My point is that love is inexplicable. If love had any reason than Buffy would have hated Angel on his return from Hell, heck he would have hated her for sending him there. Instead we see a Buffy and Angel more deeply and intimately linked and loved than ever before.

Love isn't brains after all😉

 

[Kelsey]

I don't think you are gona find a reason hun. Love doesn't work that way. It's not logical and you certainly cannot earn someone being in love with you, it just happens. Love just is. That's why it is so special, you don't get to make a choice, you're chosen.

Well, you're analysis was definitely impressive! Unfortunately, though, we're just never going to agree on this subject. I could just as easily provide an analysis supporting Buffy and Spike, and I would believe it and support it completely.

As for love, hun, I know it just happens and you don't earn it, but there are factors that go into it. There are reasons you love the person you love; they make you laugh or they treat you a certain way or you just feel wonderful being with them. We're attracted and fall in love with people based on what needs we personally need fufilled. I'm not saying Angel and Buffy didn't have that, but they weren't the focus. The why they were together aspect of it wasn't as present as the constant drama and tragedy of their relationship. I feel like I explained this well enough the first time around, so I'm not going to repeat it again. But that is how I view them and how I will always view them.

Whatever she feels for him,if we are being honest we know it isn't as strong as what she feels for Angel.

I disagree. We don't "know" anything, even if we're being honest. If we knew it, Joss would have provided us with a solid answer. He didn't because Angel and Spike both have Buffy's heart, and neither is "as strong as" the other. She loved them in different ways. In my opinion, Spuffy was a more lasting love. And my example of Spike understanding her was that he knew her, inside and out. That was the point of that speech. I don't find love at first sight or aching tragic love more touching than something like that. You can love someone without knowing them, but it's more powerful when you know the "best and the worst" of them, as Spike put it. You love even the parts they don't like about themselves.

But we're debating in the thread again! You're never going to get your reasons if you try to discuss with everyone who posts, friend. 😉

 

[Kean]

Well, you're analysis was definitely impressive! Unfortunately, though, we're just never going to agree on this subject. I could just as easily provide an analysis supporting Buffy and Spike, and I would believe it and support it completely.

As for love, hun, I know it just happens and you don't earn it, but there are factors that go into it. There are reasons you love the person you love; they make you laugh or they treat you a certain way or you just feel wonderful being with them. We're attracted and fall in love with people based on what needs we personally need fufilled. I'm not saying Angel and Buffy didn't have that, but they weren't the focus. The why they were together aspect of it wasn't as present as the constant drama and tragedy of their relationship. I feel like I explained this well enough the first time around, so I'm not going to repeat it again. But that is how I view them and how I will always view them.



I disagree. We don't "know" anything, even if we're being honest. If we knew it, Joss would have provided us with a solid answer. He didn't because Angel and Spike both have Buffy's heart, and neither is "as strong as" the other. She loved them in different ways. In my opinion, Spuffy was a more lasting love. And my example of Spike understanding her was that he knew her, inside and out. That was the point of that speech. I don't find love at first sight or aching tragic love more touching than something like that. You can love someone without knowing them, but it's more powerful when you know the "best and the worst" of them, as Spike put it. You love even the parts they don't like about themselves.

But we're debating in the thread again! You're never going to get your reasons if you try to discuss with everyone who posts, friend. 😉

I know, I really need to get my arse in gear and stop peeking in this thread lol

We will never agree on any of this lol even the way you describe Bangel, you do so in a way that I never would (e.g. love at first sight or aching tragic love).

I believe in Buffy and Angel both individually and as a couple more than anything else in this verse so there really isn't a force on this planet that could dissuade me in my belief that they are ultimately "it" for one another, and always have been.

I appreciate all you comments though hun, even if we never agree 😉

 

[Wishing Oceans]

PrincessBuffy16 agrees: Little hard on Bangel maybe? You're not fair.

How so? Bangel wasn't exactly "light and fun". 🙂 Most of the time they were either crying, killing each other, breaking up with each other, or saying how they "can't be together." Every happy moment seemed to end in tears (IWRY, the Prom, Surprise/ Innocence, Lovers Walk) But that's just my opinion. 😀

That understanding though doesn't earn Spike Buffy's undying love. Whatever she feels for him,if we are being honest we know it isn't as strong as what she feels for Angel. Buffy only started to care for Spike when he stopped trying to make her care.

As a friend of mine once said... I'd like to test that theory. 😀 It has been stated many times that Buffy loves both vampires EQUALLY. 🙂 And if we're honest, Buffy always kinda cared for Spike, especially S5+. 😀 And it kind of does. Everyone wants someone who understands them. 🙂 And as Jane Espenson says:

"If someone is there for you, is asking nothing of you and has loved you faithfully and unconditionally for all those years, and if that person is the one that you turn to for comfort and support when you are at your most vulnerable, and if they give you that comfort and support unconditionally asking nothing in return, then whether you acknowledge it or not, that is love, so yes, Buffy loved Spike."

"Some would say Angel and Buffy really had more of an idealized first love while Spike and Buffy have the more adult, messy, kind of love which is more realistic. That's right. It's not idealized and it's just so often ugly and yet when James Marsters does stuff where you look in his face and you go, 'Oh, my God, he loves her so much!' Ahh! It's just so wonderful."

"How do you follow-up her romance with Angel? I like the romance with Spike better. I'm more interested in the heat between those two characters because I felt Buffy and Angel had romantic love. Spike and Buffy have something so much more complicated that it's got that romance and all this other stuff on top of it which makes it so interesting for me."

"Yes she sat there in silence with him there. I think she didn't know why she was there. She wanted to be with someone... who wasn't demanding anything of her... and wasn't expecting anything. And someone who could understand, because he has the line I really like where he looks at her hands and he knows right away she crawled out of the grave. And it's hard to hear, the line that gets a little lost but he says "I've done it myself" or been there. There is the implication that he is identifying with her because he also crawled out of his own grave. Then when he says the I've saved you lots of times, I think all we can do is know what we would be thinking and the kind of person Buffy is... she needs to be thinking, wow what a guy."

As far as the build up goes I don't get that at all because to me Bangel was simmering away for almost a year before you could call them a couple. That's where my comment on re-falling in love comes from. As I see it there is a defined progression of their relationship. As they graduate (for lack of a better word) on to the next level, to me, they fall into a deeper level of love with each other.

But being a "couple" doesn't necessarily mean ANYTHING. It's just a label. The love, the emotions, that's what counts. 😀 The no- build up thing is because they seemed to be in love from the first moment they saw each other.

Level 1: Ideals or "Love at First Sight". To be honest I take the whole Love at First Sight thing with a pinch of salt but there is obviously an emotional connection sprung up immediately between the two. I have always seen this as Buffy and Angel being in love with the "idea" of each other, before they had any clue of who the other really was.

Ugh, love at first sight. I hate it so much. 😀 It's so fake, and I find it extremely degrading to real love. I think of it more as infatuation at first sight. 😀

Level 2: First Love. This comes about around the time of the episode "Angel". They had gradually been getting to know each other over the passing months. With that their attraction and feelings for each grew and culminated with that episode. It was tentative, maybe even innocent, but most importantly it was the dispelling of ideas and the beginng of real, honestly expressed emotion.

Yeah, I've never understood how she loved him so quickly. It was kind of ridiculous in my mind. She just met him! 😀 Love is merely a deep affection for somebody else. I simply don't get how you can care deeply for someone you don't know.

Also, I believe that it's very important to love yourself and be more selfless before you can love anyone else. When you love someone, you want to forget about all their bothersome habits. Their acheivements are your acheivements. You want the best for them. I just don't see how that's possible with someone you just met. 🙂

Level 3: Carpe Diem. This is Buffy and Angel from the beginning of season 2. They now really know each other, despite noble intentions of ignorance their feelings have continued to grow and they are innocent enough to believe that they can have happily ever after like normal people. They aren't shy around each other anymore, infact, they begin to fight for each other, fight for how they feel, indidvidually. They begin to revel in their feelings of love for one another, it fills them up and this in turn makes them feel brave, feel safe. They are lost in love.

I have to disagree. I don't think that Buffy ever actually "knew" Angel. She said herself in Lie To Me that she knew nothing about Angel, he never talked about himself, because he knew she couldn't handle his past and the truth of what he was. And I don't really think that they were "happily ignorant", as they seemed to be constantly going on about how they could never be together. 😀 And the problem with being "lost in love" is just that. You're LOST. 😀 That kind of love doesn't last. A real love with friendship, passion, understanding, and deep affection is what lasts. 🙂

Wow, I've rambled! My point is that love is inexplicable. If love had any reason than Buffy would have hated Angel on his return from Hell, heck he would have hated her for sending him there. Instead we see a Buffy and Angel more deeply and intimately linked and loved than ever before.

Maybe that's true, which I for one think is pretty silly of them. 😀 But, we all know that THAT relationship ended a few months later. It wasn't built to last. 🙂

Love isn't brains after all

Well, it kind of is. No emotions REALLY exist in your "heart", that's just what people like to say for some reason. All feelings and reactions take place in one's brain. 😀

 

[PrincessBuffy16]

Well, it kind of is. No emotions REALLY exist in your "heart", that's just what people like to say for some reason. All feelings and reactions take place in one's brain.

How can you think like that? Love has nothing to do with brain. It's pure heart. Brain is an opsticle to love. It weights all the good things and the bad things, and in the end it's like you're at the begining. But when you ask your heart, it gives you an answer. Right away. Yes or no. No complications, and no thinking, just pure decision. Heart is the center of our body. Love has nothing to do with brains because brain control us, but we control out heart. Think with your brain, but decide with your heart! 😉

 

[Kelsey]

How can you think like that? Love has nothing to do with brain. It's pure heart. Brain is an opsticle to love. It weights all the good things and the bad things, and in the end it's like you're at the begining. But when you ask your heart, it gives you an answer. Right away. Yes or no. No complications, and no thinking, just pure decision. Heart is the center of our body. Love has nothing to do with brains because brain control us, but we control out heart. Think with your brain, but decide with your heart! 😉

I think she just meant that the heart doesn't store our emotions. It exists just to pump blood through our veins. But obviously when people say "heart," they mean feelings and emotions. Still, I wouldn't say that logic has no place in love. Angel loved Buffy, but it was right for them to end it when they did. It was logical, because otherwise they wouldn't have been happy together.

And I don't think we really have a hold of our hearts anymore than we have a hold of our brains. Both of them control us to a certain degree.

But this is waaaay off-topic, hah.

 

[PrincessBuffy16]

I think she just meant that the heart doesn't store our emotions. It exists just to pump blood through our veins. But obviously when people say "heart," they mean feelings and emotions. Still, I wouldn't say that logic has no place in love. Angel loved Buffy, but it was right for them to end it when they did. It was logical, because otherwise they wouldn't have been happy together.

And I don't think we really have a hold of our hearts anymore than we have a hold of our brains. Both of them control us to a certain degree.

But this is waaaay off-topic, hah.

Yeah, but, when we are talking about love, how can we talk about it with logic? If heart is only a organ, than brain is only organ, so love doesn't exist. And I don't think Angel left because that was the next logical step, he left because he thought it's the right thing to do. He felt that in his heart, not brain.

 

[Kelsey]

Yeah, but, when we are talking about love, how can we talk about it with logic? If heart is only a organ, than brain is only organ, so love doesn't exist. And I don't think Angel left because that was the next logical step, he left because he thought it's the right thing to do. He felt that in his heart, not brain.

Well, yes, but I'd also argue that I'm sure his heart wanted to stay. But no matter what Buffy and Angel wanted, it couldn't make them happy. The brain and the heart don't have to be completely disconnected. I think you have to love someone with each in order to make it work.

It seems silly to argue about it, but again, the brain has the function of having thoughts and allowing emotion--that's its job. So emotions do technically come from our heads, and not our hearts. But like I said, "heart" has always been a metaphor for the emotional, feeling part of us.

 

[PrincessBuffy16]

Yeah, it is true that brain has a job when it comes to emotions, and heart is asociated with them only because it's nice to hear, in our body it doesn't have any conection with emotions, but that's pure biology, not love.

I have to disagree with you. Angel wanted to stay, you're right. He said that to Willow when he thought she's Buffy. But he left, because he knew that's better not just for her, it's better for him. But I so don't agree that their wishes couldn't make them happy, and that they can't work. At that time they just needed to grow up. To see new things, to try new things, and then if they feel they are two people in the world who are meant to be together, the will get back together. Well just haven't told us are they meant to be together, or not. Someday he probably will. But I feel it's going to be a long time.

 

[Wishing Oceans]

Yeah, it is true that brain has a job when it comes to emotions, and heart is asociated with them only because it's nice to hear, in our body it doesn't have any conection with emotions, but that's pure biology, not love.

I have to disagree with you. Angel wanted to stay, you're right. He said that to Willow when he thought she's Buffy. But he left, because he knew that's better not just for her, it's better for him. But I so don't agree that their wishes couldn't make them happy, and that they can't work. At that time they just needed to grow up. To see new things, to try new things, and then if they feel they are two people in the world who are meant to be together, the will get back together. Well just haven't told us are they meant to be together, or not. Someday he probably will. But I feel it's going to be a long time.

Maybe that's true. 🙂 But IMO it's extremely unlikely that either one will end up with ANYONE. They're heroes. They'll live alone, and they'll die alone. As said in Becoming Part 2, the only person you ever really have is yourself. 😀 And I'm glad. I really, really don't want to see Buffy in some happy relationship with a nice, normal guy (or human Angel/ Spike) that leads to kids, grandkids, and baking cookies. It's just not Buffy. She's a very independent woman; She doesn't need a man or a woman to complete her. In the end, she'll be standing alone. 😀

As for the heart thing, I was just being technical, as Kelsey said. 🙂 It's my assumption that people always refer to their heart when discussing their feelings because your heart is essentially what's keeping you alive. It's always beating, and can slow down or speed up. If it stops for a moment, you could die. It's like the whole of your being. The same with your soul. IMO, "souls" are just a whole lotta nonsense. 😀 I'm both an atheist and an extremely logical thinker (i'd hope 😀 ) so I really only humor the soul thing for the benefits of the 'verse. 😀 Not that that had to do with anything... 😀

 

[Emzzie]

Your heart is an organ, so it cant feel anything. Its all gross looking too. You're brain is an organ as well, so ditto. I think love is a feeling felt in you soul. Way off topic 😛 not that important anyway. Lets stop talking about it now. 😛

Again, this is NOT the thread to defend Bangel. This is a thread for people who dont like it to explain their reasons. I originally came to state my reasons peacefully. We should be able to discuss what we want to without being forced into a debate. URGH.

I dislike Bangel because I thought it was corny. I thought Angel was whiny. I dont think they will ever get together because it was a more "young love" sort of thing on Buffy's part. They are two different people now. They had changed alot and Buffy moved on to Spike and Angel to Cordy. Its just not their time anymore.

---------- Post added at 06:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:35 PM ----------

but Emzzie, debatings so fun! 😀

*grumble* for people who are good at it. I'm terrible and I like to avoid them at all costs! 😛

 

[Kelsey]

Yeah, it is true that brain has a job when it comes to emotions, and heart is asociated with them only because it's nice to hear, in our body it doesn't have any conection with emotions, but that's pure biology, not love.

I have to disagree with you. Angel wanted to stay, you're right. He said that to Willow when he thought she's Buffy. But he left, because he knew that's better not just for her, it's better for him. But I so don't agree that their wishes couldn't make them happy, and that they can't work. At that time they just needed to grow up. To see new things, to try new things, and then if they feel they are two people in the world who are meant to be together, the will get back together. Well just haven't told us are they meant to be together, or not. Someday he probably will. But I feel it's going to be a long time.

I don't think you're understanding my point at all, friend! I really wasn't trying to say anything against Bangel. He left because they wouldn't be happy, due to his curse and the other hardships in their way. I believe they loved each other--I really do! I just don't see it the way you do.

But we've gotten far, far off-topic, and like Emzzie said, this is not the thread to defend Bangel. This is the thread for non-Bangels to say why the don't like them.

 

[PrincessBuffy16]

Maybe that's true. 🙂 But IMO it's extremely unlikely that either one will end up with ANYONE. They're heroes. They'll live alone, and they'll die alone. As said in Becoming Part 2, the only person you ever really have is yourself. 😀 And I'm glad. I really, really don't want to see Buffy in some happy relationship with a nice, normal guy (or human Angel/ Spike) that leads to kids, grandkids, and baking cookies. It's just not Buffy. She's a very independent woman; She doesn't need a man or a woman to complete her. In the end, she'll be standing alone. 😀

As for the heart thing, I was just being technical, as Kelsey said. 🙂 It's my assumption that people always refer to their heart when discussing their feelings because your heart is essentially what's keeping you alive. It's always beating, and can slow down or speed up. If it stops for a moment, you could die. It's like the whole of your being. The same with your soul. IMO, "souls" are just a whole lotta nonsense. 😀 I'm both an atheist and an extremely logical thinker (i'd hope 😀 ) so I really only humor the soul thing for the benefits of the 'verse. 😀 Not that that had to do with anything... 😀

But that is the point! That is Buffy. That is something she really wished all her life. One day she's going to be done. Now when she's not the only chosen one, she can have normal life. But she still keeps fighting because she's not done. Her work is not done. And it's probably not going to be for a long, long time. But one day it's going to end. Because she's going to feel that she's done. And then, she would probably want someone by her side. Because Buffy is affraid to be alone. Every slayer before her was alone. But not her, she can't do that. She needs her family, her friends, she needs love, because that's her biggest triger, they are her strenght. Some day Buffy is going to be done, and she would probably want to be with someone, I don't know is it going to be Angel, Spike or some other random guy. Maybe it's gonna be Xander. Who knows that. But I think Buffy can't be alone, and she doesn't want to be.

 

[Misty]

Oh, hapiness is not good anymore? It's not interesting to watch anymore? God, in what kind of world do we live in?

No, happiness isn't bad but it's just sometimes boring to watch. I have no problem with Bangel, because it was special, but at the same time I found it kind of boring before Angelus came because they weren't really fighting or arguing, which isn't bad, but it's not interesting.

---------- Post added at 11:43 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:17 AM ----------

Okay, I don't want to sound bossy and I'm sorry if I am, but this is not a "Defend Bangel" thread as Emzzie said. Just like "Why Doesn't Spuffy Work For You" thread isn't a "Defend Spuffy" thread.