Why does everyone like Fred so much?

As seen from my post history, I am big fan of the Gunn/Fred pairing and not so much for the Wes/Fred 'ship. However, I just don't like Fred. I loved her during the Pylea arc, and she was fun during season three, but once the love triangle between she, Wes, and Gunn blew up in season four, I found her to be an ass. Her behavior was completely and entirely insensitive to Gunn, and, as a matter of fact, I don't believe for one minute that she had no clue Wesley had feelings for her.

Number one: right around the time she and Gunn hooked up, his bromance with Wesley shriveled on the vine and died.

Number two: Gunn was extremely, extremely hostile towards Wesley after he stole Connor (Cordelia was never as angry as Gunn was, and she knew him much longer and more intimately).

Number three: she went to Wesley to deal with her treacherous professor--she had to have known to go to him for help because he'd do anything for her.

What cemented my dislike of Fred was after Gunn killed the professor and Wesley returned to AI: her body language and behavior towards Wesley were as though she were available before she and Gunn ever officially broke up. It just angered me to no end that since one man (Gunn) broke her rose-colored view of the world, she could just jump to another man she felt wouldn't shatter her fantasy (Wesley)--hence why I had a good laugh when Angelus revealed Wesley and Lilah's relationship.

All in all, Fred was the most Mary Sue of all Mary Sues. She's pretty, she's charming, she's a genius (I've never understood why her scientific intelligence made her automatically equipped intelligent enough to catch onto supernatural stuff so quickly), she's resourceful, etc etc etc. Where was the gray? Plus, it was hypocritical of her to always be so offended by Gunn's difficulty to forgive people and leaping before he looked, when the second someone betrayed her, she was armed and ready to take them out (Connor, the professor).
 
Cherchezlafemme said:
Number one: right around the time she and Gunn hooked up, his bromance with Wesley shriveled on the vine and died.
Click to expand...
True

Cherchezlafemme said:
Number three: she went to Wesley to deal with her treacherous professor--she had to have known to go to him for help because he'd do anything for her.
Click to expand...
Why blame her for that? Wes, Giles and Faith are the only "champions" who are willing to cross the line for the greater good. Even Spike won't go as far as those three, imo. It was smart for Fred to go to Wes as she had no relationship with the others named.

Cherchezlafemme said:
What cemented my dislike of Fred was after Gunn killed the professor and Wesley returned to AI: her body language and behavior towards Wesley were as though she were available before she and Gunn ever officially broke up. It just angered me to no end that since one man (Gunn) broke her rose-colored view of the world, she could just jump to another man she felt wouldn't shatter her fantasy (Wesley)--hence why I had a good laugh when Angelus revealed Wesley and Lilah's relationship.
Click to expand...
I see where you're coming from, but the fact that Wes/Fred had that chemistry from day one makes me think that Gunn's thing with her was always doomed, I think even Charles knew it himself on some level.

Cherchezlafemme said:
All in all, Fred was the most Mary Sue of all Mary Sues. She's pretty, she's charming, she's a genius (I've never understood why her scientific intelligence made her automatically equipped intelligent enough to catch onto supernatural stuff so quickly), she's resourceful, etc etc etc. Where was the gray? Plus, it was hypocritical of her to always be so offended by Gunn's difficulty to forgive people and leaping before he looked, when the second someone betrayed her, she was armed and ready to take them out (Connor, the professor).
Click to expand...
Angel Season 3 Cordy was more attractive, charismatic, strong, with some superpowers to boot. She may not have been a genius, but amongst the Champions, she was one of the smarter ones. Would that make her more of a Mary Sue?

Personally, I think the only Mary Sue/Marty Stu Joss ever wrote was The Groosalugg, and that was half the point of his character (which I thoroughly enjoyed).

---------- Post added at 05:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:06 PM ----------

ubi4soft agrees: re Mary Sue = Sam Finn

I wasn't really counting characters who only had five minutes of screen time in a single episode.
 
U
ubi4soft
re Mary Sue = Sam Finn
Fred didn't have to fight, she chose to.
Click to expand...


Big deal. She only chose to because she wanted to view herself and wanted others to view her as a "champion". As if that is supposed to be the epitome of existence.

Frankly, I dislike Fred. I hated how the other characters put her on a pedestal. And I hated how she clung to her illusions about a lot of things.


I see where you're coming from, but the fact that Wes/Fred had that chemistry from day one makes me think that Gunn's thing with her was always doomed, I think even Charles knew it himself on some level.
Click to expand...

The only chemistry I saw between Wes and Fred was this disturbing mixture of an infantile romance with a little bit of incest thrown in. I couldn't tell if Wes wanted to be Fred's parent figure or lover. Perhaps both. Who knows?
 
Lady Lavina, I only have one thing to say to you.
Lmao, how did you see even a little insest in that?? That made me laugh even though I don't agree with it.
Now, why did I like Fred? I find it hard to explain really. I guess part of the reason is because I see some of myself in her. I'm not a genius but I understand what it's like to feel as though you don't fit with your friends because you are nerdy and have a very different sense of humor. She was surrounded by Champions and I don't believe that she considered herself one. I don't think Fred thought she was good enough. In that way she definitley reminded me of Xander. Her nerdy and adorable side reminded me of Willow. Fred was also a fighter. She fought her heart out for the cause and even fought Illyria coming on. I admitt a very few time she crossed the line to annoying for me but I can forgive those for all the wonderful cheery or even heartbreaking moments she gave us.
I also wanted to mention why I love Illyria because I noticed some discussion on her. I loved Illyria because she kicked butt. She just had "the look" of one of those superheros from comics. You all know that I adore Anya, and I think that Illyria had a similar humor to her. She did not understand the world which sometimes could make you sad but most often had you laughing.
 
I love Fred. I thought she was adorable. She wasn't the deepest, most complex character, but she was charming and funny. She's gorgeous, too.

I like her because she's simple. She doesn't have to be deep and complex. It's refreshing, actually, on a show where everyone is. She's just there... being wonderful. She has no agenda and she's honest about her feelings. In a different way than Cordy, but still. Plus, I love when she and Willow make with the flirty.
 
I agree that Fred's a bit of a Mary Sue, but not because of her personality. While she is smart and charming (everyone in that world is pretty, so that's not a special trait), she also has faults and issues she has to deal with.

But, the way the people around her treat her takes it to the next level. They make her out as too amazing, too special. I sometimes felt like they all practically worshipped her.

Also, I despised her "love interest" status in season 3.
 
I love that Fred Burkle. She's adorable--how can you not like her? =P
 
Buffyverse Fan said:
I see where you're coming from, but the fact that Wes/Fred had that chemistry from day one makes me think that Gunn's thing with her was always doomed, I think even Charles knew it himself on some level.
Click to expand...

I'm probably in the minority, but I think Gunn and Fred had amazing chemistry. It was a chemistry born of two people growing from friends to lovers, rather than the "Boom!!--I want you" type of chemistry.

Buffyverse Fan said:
Angel Season 3 Cordy was more attractive, charismatic, strong, with some superpowers to boot. She may not have been a genius, but amongst the Champions, she was one of the smarter ones. Would that make her more of a Mary Sue?
Click to expand...

But Cordelia grew into this supposed Mary Sueism (which I calculate as the writers' fault, since they killed Cordelia the moment they turned her into a "love interest"). Fred was a Mary Sue from the moment she was introduced. She really bounced from protector to protector (Angel to Gunn to Wesley), and was treated like a fragile little girl. I needed her to get knocked off her pedestal every once in a while.
 
Cherchezlafemme said:
I'm probably in the minority, but I think Gunn and Fred had amazing chemistry. It was a chemistry born of two people growing from friends to lovers, rather than the "Boom!!--I want you" type of chemistry.



But Cordelia grew into this supposed Mary Sueism (which I calculate as the writers' fault, since they killed Cordelia the moment they turned her into a "love interest"). Fred was a Mary Sue from the moment she was introduced. She really bounced from protector to protector (Angel to Gunn to Wesley), and was treated like a fragile little girl. I needed her to get knocked off her pedestal every once in a while.
Click to expand...

I don't think Fred's even in my Top 10 favorites list, but I liked her a bit. The strength she had was survival not protecting (in the beginning). From "Fredless" through "A Hole in the World" she did turn into a protector of sorts, imo.
 
Fred was a character that grew on me. I never thought she was a Mary Sue. It makes me sad that people think that about her.
 
I always liked Fred never disliked her. I preferred her with Wesley but Fred in general to me is hard to dislike she is cute and funny. I like how she like people said grew to be a strong woman. I will say it makes me upset watching a hole in the world because I adore Fred.
 
Cherchezlafemme said:
I'm probably in the minority, but I think Gunn and Fred had amazing chemistry. It was a chemistry born of two people growing from friends to lovers, rather than the "Boom!!--I want you" type of chemistry.
Click to expand...

you're not alone. I loved Fred and Gunn together, never really understood the deal about Fred and Wesley, I thought that they were boring as day old crackers the short time they had together.

As for Fred there are not words enough to say how much I love her character.
I mean she's a nutcase in a pretty package, I don't get why people refer to her as a Mary Sue - it's like we haven't been watching the same girl. I don't get it.

Fred was the quirky smile of Angel, she brought a bit of normality to the gang because though a bit nutty herself she had a sweet earthiness to her that they needed.
 
I was not a huge fan of Fred, and agree that the other characters did tend to worship her a bit. The Gunn/Fred/Wesley triangle just bored me to death. She has some moments but on the whole I found Illyria to be way more interesting so her death was not that sad to me.
 
Fred was a great character. I liked how she brought something new to the team. She was like the little sister of Angel and Cordy 😀 In fact talking about that... for me all of them were a family. That's why even if there wouldn't have been any love relationships between each others, they would have worked together. They were like three brothers and two sisters. I don't know if I can put Lorne in there though 😛 He's my fav character of the show and he was close to Angel and Fred but he's more like a friend of the Angel's family, haha!
 
D
dan k
Lorne, what a brillant character
Why does everyone like Fred so much

I liked Fred from the very first She is sweet, funny, gentle, easy going. I got a kick out of the way Fred had hero worship for Angel and her loyalty toward him was endearing. She and Gunn were way cute together. I think her earlier funniest part is in Hearthrob when she finally gets brave enough to come out of her room Angel told her to get back in there and stay there because he was fighting James downstairs.
 
Fred was a good character. I never had any problems with her. She was a useful addition to the AI team and worked well in storylines. She wasn't my favourite character but i'd agree she helped make the show what it was.
 
I have never been a fan of Fred Burkle. I got tired of the other characters putting her on a pedestal. And I was never a fan of her personality. I'm still turned off by the way the male characters went into a tailspin over her death. I shouldn't be, but I am.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom